Tories maintain referendum stance
#1
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Tories maintain referendum stance
#2
I think there will be policy announcements that will show the Tories to be forward and progressive thinkers, and put the final
nail in labours coffin.
You've seen the retarded and deluded at the labour conference, now prepare to see the leaders and statesmen next week.
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The Irish referendum is the most important political vote in the last 17 years, the last major obstacle to the EU's enabling Act. Cameron is a lightweight. We are truely screwed. History books will write about this vote as the beginning of the end of freedom and democracy. I am now going to emigrate down under to spend the remains of my life in comparative freedom.
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Deep there isn't much I disagree with you about on here, but if you think Dave and his crew of toff's are leaders and statesmen then I respectfully suggest you lay off the drugs.
This country is finished, and there isn't a " leader or statesmen " out there, on both sides, worthy of the name.
This country is finished, and there isn't a " leader or statesmen " out there, on both sides, worthy of the name.
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I think there will be far more important stuff to discuss during the party conference next week. Like how my mate's David and George are going to try and salvage this country from the mess that Labour have created.
I think there will be policy announcements that will show the Tories to be forward and progressive thinkers, and put the final
nail in labours coffin.
You've seen the retarded and deluded at the labour conference, now prepare to see the leaders and statesmen next week.
I think there will be policy announcements that will show the Tories to be forward and progressive thinkers, and put the final
nail in labours coffin.
You've seen the retarded and deluded at the labour conference, now prepare to see the leaders and statesmen next week.
I assume you are being funny or ironic as you really cannot be seriois.
Look at the **** up they made last time for a start and anyway tell me Cameron isn't just another Blair, he has even copied his hand movements when he talks. He and his party are, like the current incumbents, pathetic!
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#8
Deep there isn't much I disagree with you about on here, but if you think Dave and his crew of toff's are leaders and statesmen then I respectfully suggest you lay off the drugs.
This country is finished, and there isn't a " leader or statesmen " out there, on both sides, worthy of the name.
This country is finished, and there isn't a " leader or statesmen " out there, on both sides, worthy of the name.
Although I don't think we should underestimate Dave, and being branded a 'toff' isn't really here or there. I do feel he will take the country in the right direction and it can only be an improvement over Labour. Wait to hear their policy announcements before you write them off, I think (and hope) you will hear a lot of common sense stuff that people like you and me will like.
Even despite this countrie's dire problems I'm not prepared to write it off, I'm a patriot and believe we can be better.
#9
Well we will see what Cameron's real policies are with respect to the Eu soon enough, or I certainly hope we do anyway.
I think the Eu constitution and whether we ratify it thus effectively handing this country over to another organisation is immensely important. If the Eu wins overall control then we will become just another part of an immense conglomeration of what used to be independent states and we shall have virtually no say in how we wish to conduct our lives. Any sign of real democracy will vanish and we will have to find more and more cash to give to the commissioners for their own use, not very impressive when you consider their sorry history with the auditors over the last 14 years! They have already stated that they want to know full financial details of pay and savings for all the Eu population. Why I wonder, and how much further will they go. Do they too use Orwells books as their bibles?
If Cameron is so foolish as to renege on his promise to give us our referendum, as in fact did this present load of supine plonkers, then he will show that he is not worth the candle and he will risk a defeat or at the very least a very much reduced majority at the next election. He had better show that his true colours can be trusted at their conference or he too will be for the high jump!
This country is in desperate need of a strong leader who has altruistic motives for the future of the people and is prepared to stand up for the country. That has not happened for a very long time now and we are suffering for it. If Cameron can't demonstrate that to our own satisfaction and get away from the suspicions of being a Billy Liar copycat, we are well and truly in the "cacky".
Les
I think the Eu constitution and whether we ratify it thus effectively handing this country over to another organisation is immensely important. If the Eu wins overall control then we will become just another part of an immense conglomeration of what used to be independent states and we shall have virtually no say in how we wish to conduct our lives. Any sign of real democracy will vanish and we will have to find more and more cash to give to the commissioners for their own use, not very impressive when you consider their sorry history with the auditors over the last 14 years! They have already stated that they want to know full financial details of pay and savings for all the Eu population. Why I wonder, and how much further will they go. Do they too use Orwells books as their bibles?
If Cameron is so foolish as to renege on his promise to give us our referendum, as in fact did this present load of supine plonkers, then he will show that he is not worth the candle and he will risk a defeat or at the very least a very much reduced majority at the next election. He had better show that his true colours can be trusted at their conference or he too will be for the high jump!
This country is in desperate need of a strong leader who has altruistic motives for the future of the people and is prepared to stand up for the country. That has not happened for a very long time now and we are suffering for it. If Cameron can't demonstrate that to our own satisfaction and get away from the suspicions of being a Billy Liar copycat, we are well and truly in the "cacky".
Les
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Mate, my comments were a little tongue in cheek, partly to wind up 'red' Martin.
Although I don't think we should underestimate Dave, and being branded a 'toff' isn't really here or there. I do feel he will take the country in the right direction and it can only be an improvement over Labour. Wait to hear their policy announcements before you write them off, I think (and hope) you will hear a lot of common sense stuff that people like you and me will like.
Even despite this countrie's dire problems I'm not prepared to write it off, I'm a patriot and believe we can be better.
Although I don't think we should underestimate Dave, and being branded a 'toff' isn't really here or there. I do feel he will take the country in the right direction and it can only be an improvement over Labour. Wait to hear their policy announcements before you write them off, I think (and hope) you will hear a lot of common sense stuff that people like you and me will like.
Even despite this countrie's dire problems I'm not prepared to write it off, I'm a patriot and believe we can be better.
As for the referendum we were promised it and should therefore have it. AS LONG IS IT IN ON THE CONSTITUTION and not just an attemp by the anti-euro brigade to get a proxy vote on EU membership
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BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Cameron 'working for Euro vote'
I certianly hope Dave is!
Tory Euro MP Daniel Hannan has said David Cameron is "working privately to get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty".
The Tory leader has said he does not want to prejudice debate in countries who have yet to ratify the Treaty.
However his office admitted Mr Cameron had written to president of one of those countries - Czech Republic - setting out his opinion on the Treaty.
A Yes vote on the Treaty in Ireland has ensured it has dominated the opening of the party's conference in Manchester.
It also re-ignited Tory opposition to former Prime Minister Tony Blair becoming the European Union's first president.
I certianly hope Dave is!
Tory Euro MP Daniel Hannan has said David Cameron is "working privately to get a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty".
The Tory leader has said he does not want to prejudice debate in countries who have yet to ratify the Treaty.
However his office admitted Mr Cameron had written to president of one of those countries - Czech Republic - setting out his opinion on the Treaty.
A Yes vote on the Treaty in Ireland has ensured it has dominated the opening of the party's conference in Manchester.
It also re-ignited Tory opposition to former Prime Minister Tony Blair becoming the European Union's first president.
Last edited by The Zohan; 04 October 2009 at 05:31 PM.
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Simple answer to that is no, which is why all the mainstream party's seem to be ducking the issue
#14
Neither the Torries or Lib's have a statesman in charge they are all media friendly light weights with no conviction in the policies they just say and do what gets votes not what we need.
And Gordon is just useless and has sold us out to the EU as Payment to his mate Tony for being hand the Prime Minsters job
we are screwed
And Gordon is just useless and has sold us out to the EU as Payment to his mate Tony for being hand the Prime Minsters job
we are screwed
#15
Can someone explain to me what the lisbon vote thing is all about ?? Also, can someone tell me why we, as a country, havent been asked to vote ? Is it another thing Labour has stopped in this `free` country of ours ?
God Im so tired of labour ! Whether Tories come in or not, Im even willing to vote for the Monster Looney party to get these idiots out.
SBK
God Im so tired of labour ! Whether Tories come in or not, Im even willing to vote for the Monster Looney party to get these idiots out.
SBK
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Wikipedia explains it well, but it's a gruelling read. In very basic terms it means a step towards a United States of Europe, more centralised power. The reason that Ireland voted in favour this time is because their economy has gone to the dogs in just three years, and they see the Lisbon Treaty as their only chance at a lifeline. What it will mean in generations to come nobody really knows, it's just the here and now that people are focusing on. Personally i would oppose it, but then i'm a self-proclaimed Little Englander...
Treaty of Lisbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We've not been asked to vote because Gordon Brown wasn't legally obliged to ask for our opinion. And in one sense he could rightly argue that the people wouldn't really understand the issues - many of them are very technical. But on such a fundamental decision for the country, most people think that there should be a referendum, and some effort to tell the people in simple terms how this will affect their lives (although i remember the Sun doing an idiot's guide about 2 years ago but it descended into how bendy a banana could be so i'm not sure whether Mr&Mrs Not Interested gained much from that).
Party, parties. Tory, Tories.
Treaty of Lisbon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
We've not been asked to vote because Gordon Brown wasn't legally obliged to ask for our opinion. And in one sense he could rightly argue that the people wouldn't really understand the issues - many of them are very technical. But on such a fundamental decision for the country, most people think that there should be a referendum, and some effort to tell the people in simple terms how this will affect their lives (although i remember the Sun doing an idiot's guide about 2 years ago but it descended into how bendy a banana could be so i'm not sure whether Mr&Mrs Not Interested gained much from that).
Party, parties. Tory, Tories.
Last edited by TelBoy; 05 October 2009 at 09:13 AM.
#19
He did this in spite of his party's promise of a referendum since it affects all the countries so deeply with effect to their future government and democracy-or lack of it!
In view of the enormous changes it means to our eventual style of government and our abilities of self determination and civil liberties, there is no posiible excuse for denying us a vote on whether to agree to the ratification of the Lisbon constitution.
Politicians are in the business of personal power and if they manage to con us to accept this constitution their own personal power over us will increase out of all recognition! Our votes eventually would stand for nothing.
Les
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With the opinion polls so obviously against the EU in this country the case for becomes almost overwhelming. Call me Dave (CmD) is missing a trick if he doesn't promise one as that promise would get a lot of potential UKIP/BNP supporters voting Tory. In that case Nu/Old Labour would be consigned to the dustbin of history where they belong (or where the current lot belong anyway!.
*IF* that promise turns out in practice that the UK left the EU, oh dear, what shame, never mind ... Other countries seem to do OK out of it.
Dave
PS: damn, Leslie beat me to it ....
Last edited by hutton_d; 05 October 2009 at 10:36 AM.
#21
I don't disagree that we should have had a referendum, I'm just saying that our dear old Government has yet again sold us up the river.
IF we got a referendum, legally can we withdraw our ratification of the treaty? Would anyone put it past a "new" Government promising a referendum and then turning around and saying "oops, sorry nothing we can do"?
IF we got a referendum, legally can we withdraw our ratification of the treaty? Would anyone put it past a "new" Government promising a referendum and then turning around and saying "oops, sorry nothing we can do"?
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You're right, our politicians have sold us up the river. Starting with good old, grinning Ted way back when. Quick potted histru here ... How The British Media Lied And Tricked Us Into Joining The EU
Dave
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It's OK. I'm pretty sure we're actually agreeing here. Just making slightly differing points ... honest ...
You're right, our politicians have sold us up the river. Starting with good old, grinning Ted way back when. Quick potted histru here ... How The British Media Lied And Tricked Us Into Joining The EU
Dave
You're right, our politicians have sold us up the river. Starting with good old, grinning Ted way back when. Quick potted histru here ... How The British Media Lied And Tricked Us Into Joining The EU
Dave
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The simple answer is that it's not clear to anyone, because it's never been tried before. Labour are telling the Tories to put up and shut up, that ratification was final and absolute. But the Tories are claiming it is null and void without a referendum. It would be one for the lawyers to fight over.
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The treaty allows the EU to make self amendments to its treaties that cover its scope without having to go through IGCs ie it gets to set its own rules without having to ask the member states - effectively removing the last checks and balances on its power. It grants the EU tax raising powers for the first time. It creates the office of President and foreign minister who can enter into international agreements on behalf of the EU member states without our agreement. It removes more veto powers. Nuff said?
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#29
I don't disagree that we should have had a referendum, I'm just saying that our dear old Government has yet again sold us up the river.
IF we got a referendum, legally can we withdraw our ratification of the treaty? Would anyone put it past a "new" Government promising a referendum and then turning around and saying "oops, sorry nothing we can do"?
IF we got a referendum, legally can we withdraw our ratification of the treaty? Would anyone put it past a "new" Government promising a referendum and then turning around and saying "oops, sorry nothing we can do"?
What we need is a bit of the old Thatcher attitude towards them! Rather then give them back the rebate which she won for us!!!
Les