Sky HD vs Analog - am I goind mad!?
17 November 2009, 10:24 AM
#1
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Sky HD vs Analog - am I goind mad!?
Hi all
Watched "Life" on BBC HD last night. Decided to switch between:
1. BBC HD (Sky Digital)
2. BBC (Sky Digital)
3. BBC (Analog)
Difference between HD and BBC digital was as expected - HD a lot better. However, difference between BBC HD and Analog was barely perceptible.. in fact, if I'm really honest, I couldn't see the difference, however close/far I was from the screen.
Is this because the compression on HD these days is higher, or I've been sold a pup and Sky HD is no better than good quality Analog content???
I know the resolution of analog is lower, but once my TV (Pioneer 506 plasma) has presumably scaled the analog signal up to the screen's native resolution, I couldn't really perceive the supposedly increased picture information in the HD content.
Cheers,
B.
Watched "Life" on BBC HD last night. Decided to switch between:
1. BBC HD (Sky Digital)
2. BBC (Sky Digital)
3. BBC (Analog)
Difference between HD and BBC digital was as expected - HD a lot better. However, difference between BBC HD and Analog was barely perceptible.. in fact, if I'm really honest, I couldn't see the difference, however close/far I was from the screen.
Is this because the compression on HD these days is higher, or I've been sold a pup and Sky HD is no better than good quality Analog content???
I know the resolution of analog is lower, but once my TV (Pioneer 506 plasma) has presumably scaled the analog signal up to the screen's native resolution, I couldn't really perceive the supposedly increased picture information in the HD content.
Cheers,
B.
17 November 2009, 10:43 AM
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I certainly see a difference between HD programmmes on the same channel. The cricket is usually the best quality picture.
It may well depend on the basic quality of the subject picture before it is transmitted.
Les
It may well depend on the basic quality of the subject picture before it is transmitted.
Les
17 November 2009, 11:30 AM
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Massive difference on with Life on my 50" (HD Ready not 1080p) Panny and Optoma 1080p projector between HD and digital whether Sky or Analog......
Rememberance Sunday was also amazing quality in HD over the normal feeds....
Rememberance Sunday was also amazing quality in HD over the normal feeds....
17 November 2009, 11:35 AM
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You got your HD box setup correctly?! 
If you aint seeing a difference between analogue and HD on a Pioneer then the TV must be doing a bloody good job if everything is set up as it should.
If you aint seeing a difference between analogue and HD on a Pioneer then the TV must be doing a bloody good job if everything is set up as it should.
17 November 2009, 11:46 AM
#6
Well with consideration that the picture quality of SD analogue dropped when SD digital went on air, I think its just all going in a big circle. 
As I have always believed that picture quality with SD digital was crap and inferior to analogue terrestrial.
One thing I noticed is SD digital seems to have further dropped in quality on mainstream channels....presumable to give bandwidth for HD? (Or maybe Sky's way to entice you to get HD by making the quality differenece more pronouced? )
As I have always believed that picture quality with SD digital was crap and inferior to analogue terrestrial.One thing I noticed is SD digital seems to have further dropped in quality on mainstream channels....presumable to give bandwidth for HD? (Or maybe Sky's way to entice you to get HD by making the quality differenece more pronouced? )
Last edited by ALi-B; 17 November 2009 at 11:48 AM.
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17 November 2009, 11:48 AM
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you watching the HD box through a scart ? as in not turned over to the HDMI setting on your tv?
simple mistake most people make.
simple mistake most people make.
17 November 2009, 11:49 AM
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Well with consideration that the picture quality of SD analogue dropped when SD digital went on air, I think its just all going in a big circle. As I have always believed that picture quality with SD digital was crap and inferior to analogue terrestrial.
One thing I noticed is SD digital seems to have further dropped in quality on mainstream channels....presumable to give bandwidth for HD? (Or maybe Sky's way to entice you to get HD by making the quality differenece more pronouced? )
As I have always believed that picture quality with SD digital was crap and inferior to analogue terrestrial.One thing I noticed is SD digital seems to have further dropped in quality on mainstream channels....presumable to give bandwidth for HD? (Or maybe Sky's way to entice you to get HD by making the quality differenece more pronouced? )
17 November 2009, 11:57 AM
#10
Not really, I just think the technology (DVB) was too immature when it was implemented and just too much focus was given to allowing more channels vs quality of picture.
I know the media format on SD is capable of producing a far higher quality picture than is being allowed.
I know the media format on SD is capable of producing a far higher quality picture than is being allowed.
Last edited by ALi-B; 17 November 2009 at 12:00 PM.
17 November 2009, 03:46 PM
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If your Sky box is set to 1080i output then the box will be scaling the SD feed to 1080i and giving it straight to the TV. The Sky box is not generally a good scaler, so the SD picture on your TV won't be very good.
In the case of the analogue signal it is going straight to the TV, and the TV knows how to scale it. It may be doing a much better job of it.
You can set the Sky box output to 'auto', and force the TV or projector to do the scaling for any SD content. However, that tends to introduce a blank screen when changing between SD and HD channels since it is the TV that has to detect the difference and change the way it scales. Annoying, but if the TV is better at scaling you'll get a better end result.
In the case of the analogue signal it is going straight to the TV, and the TV knows how to scale it. It may be doing a much better job of it.
You can set the Sky box output to 'auto', and force the TV or projector to do the scaling for any SD content. However, that tends to introduce a blank screen when changing between SD and HD channels since it is the TV that has to detect the difference and change the way it scales. Annoying, but if the TV is better at scaling you'll get a better end result.
17 November 2009, 05:34 PM
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Not much of a surprise if you ask me. A really good analogue signal will better many digitial signals simply due to the compression on them (on HD too).
I still remember my disappointment the day Sky Digital took over from the analogue satellite signals. The analogue Sky picture with a decent dish and TV is still the best TV picture I have ever seen. After digital was introduced it was ever quite the same and cable is even worse for compression.
Is HD off Sky/Freeview 1080 or 720 btw? As the latter won't be much of an improvement anyway.
I still remember my disappointment the day Sky Digital took over from the analogue satellite signals. The analogue Sky picture with a decent dish and TV is still the best TV picture I have ever seen. After digital was introduced it was ever quite the same and cable is even worse for compression.
Is HD off Sky/Freeview 1080 or 720 btw? As the latter won't be much of an improvement anyway.
17 November 2009, 09:30 PM
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Have to agree. I've just gone Sky HD into a 50" Panny - £1600 TV so not a cheapy. As far as I'm aware both TV and Box set up correctly. Linked via Sony HDMI cable, and flicking between a movie, HD to non HD not that much difference. Now the sound is awesome as it's connected via optical into my sound system so where broadcast it's Dolby 5.1.
However....... play a Bluray through it and **** me it's stunning !!!!!!
However....... play a Bluray through it and **** me it's stunning !!!!!!
Last edited by daddyscoob; 17 November 2009 at 09:32 PM.
17 November 2009, 10:51 PM
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Isn't Sky HD broadcast in 720P? so isn't it best to set the box and TV to 720P?
I've just got Sky HD and have been playing with settings all weekend, I've found the best HD picture through 720P but the best SD picture throught the Scart.
My TV is a non 1080 BTW
I've just got Sky HD and have been playing with settings all weekend, I've found the best HD picture through 720P but the best SD picture throught the Scart.
My TV is a non 1080 BTW
18 November 2009, 08:54 AM
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All Sky programs which are broadcast in HD are 1080i. Only select 720p if your TV doesn't support 1080i as you're adding another layer of processing to the picture.
18 November 2009, 11:16 AM
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Have to agree. I've just gone Sky HD into a 50" Panny - £1600 TV so not a cheapy. As far as I'm aware both TV and Box set up correctly. Linked via Sony HDMI cable, and flicking between a movie, HD to non HD not that much difference. Now the sound is awesome as it's connected via optical into my sound system so where broadcast it's Dolby 5.1.
However....... play a Bluray through it and **** me it's stunning !!!!!!
However....... play a Bluray through it and **** me it's stunning !!!!!!
18 November 2009, 01:47 PM
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My TV is 1366x768 but does accept 1080i as well as 720P
Popped over to AV forums and now have a headache, but there was mention of 720P being better for football.
Anyway will have more of a play tonight and actually 'see' what works best, lol
19 November 2009, 09:46 PM
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19 November 2009, 10:03 PM
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The sky broadcast is in 1080i. Either your set or the box will have to scale the signal to your screen so it depends which is best at the job hence setting the box to 720p may look best for you. Normally the TV is better at scaling the picture.
Last edited by STi wanna Subaru; 19 November 2009 at 10:13 PM.
19 November 2009, 10:17 PM
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To try describe this better here is a comparison of the same film ripped from blu ray but one has double the bitrate in the video so should be more detailed.
http://comparescreenshots.slicx.com/comparison/22239
20 November 2009, 09:23 AM
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I'm talking Sky, switch between non-HD ver of channel and HD and its night and day, and the Sky HD isn't far off what a Blu-Ray looks like, though as mentioned more detail in the Blu-Ray.
Edit to add you do need to turn on the option that show which shows are being output in HD, as even on the HD channels it doesn't always mean the show is actually broadcast in HD
Edit to add you do need to turn on the option that show which shows are being output in HD, as even on the HD channels it doesn't always mean the show is actually broadcast in HD
Last edited by ScoobyJawa; 20 November 2009 at 09:26 AM.
21 November 2009, 10:03 PM
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I'm talking Sky, switch between non-HD ver of channel and HD and its night and day, and the Sky HD isn't far off what a Blu-Ray looks like, though as mentioned more detail in the Blu-Ray.
Edit to add you do need to turn on the option that show which shows are being output in HD, as even on the HD channels it doesn't always mean the show is actually broadcast in HD
Edit to add you do need to turn on the option that show which shows are being output in HD, as even on the HD channels it doesn't always mean the show is actually broadcast in HD
22 November 2009, 12:16 AM
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22 November 2009, 10:33 AM
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Blu-Ray is 1080p compared to Sky which is 1080i so you have twice as many lines displayed horizontally already. Also and this may not be totally correct but I believe Sky compress their signal for broadcast much like you can get a divx film of a DVD which is less than half the size of the original DVD as they're using a compression format to broadcast. As the bluray has a lot of space for data the bitrate of the picture will be far high so you can fit in a lot more detail.
To try describe this better here is a comparison of the same film ripped from blu ray but one has double the bitrate in the video so should be more detailed.
District 9 : Screenshot Comparison
To try describe this better here is a comparison of the same film ripped from blu ray but one has double the bitrate in the video so should be more detailed.
District 9 : Screenshot Comparison
The difference is in the P and I
P = Progressive. In that the 1080 lines are displayed in each pass
I = Interlaced. Which means that the 1080 lines are displayed in 2 passes. Lines 1,3,5,7, etc are displayed on the first pass and 2,4,6,8, etc on the 2nd
What this means is that progressive scan is 'smoother' than interlaced, but the image 'quality' is equivalant
22 November 2009, 09:35 PM
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I now take back all I said before Sky HD is awesome
easiest way to compare is channel 271... then flick up one channel as the HD and non HD are together.
22 November 2009, 10:44 PM
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Its a bit of a crude way to see the difference but if you pause a proper HD programme on sky and then switch between the HDMI chanel & the analog channel (6 on my tv) you can see the same image in both formats its easy to see the difference then. Thats how I had to show my ex as she couldnt see a difference!!!
