Climate Change and Emissions trading
19 November 2009, 02:49 PM
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Climate Change and Emissions trading
Ive just been listening to the Guardian Weekly Podcast, it was news to me that the EU set caps on the amount of a pollutant that can be emitted and companies in the European emissions trading scheme have to buy carbon credits, fine you might think.
The problem is that we are constantly told to try and reduce and own "carbon footprint" by way of turning off the lights when not in use, not using the car, amongst many others, the list is endless. But in practice this is pointless because, say if one day the whole UK turned off the lights and we saved, say 50% on electricity, the energy firms then just go and sell their emissions allowances to another sector, so not actually reducing emissions and not in anyway helping to save the planet
Do you see what I am getting at
The problem is that we are constantly told to try and reduce and own "carbon footprint" by way of turning off the lights when not in use, not using the car, amongst many others, the list is endless. But in practice this is pointless because, say if one day the whole UK turned off the lights and we saved, say 50% on electricity, the energy firms then just go and sell their emissions allowances to another sector, so not actually reducing emissions and not in anyway helping to save the planet
Do you see what I am getting at
19 November 2009, 03:59 PM
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Well, say if the UK is allowed to emit 10000 tons of carbon dioxide a month, us mere mortals are not in anyway going to effect that by reducing our own carbon footprint, by using gas, oil, electricity etc because what is not used by us, will be used by someone else anyway. So there will always be 10000 tons emitted regardless
19 November 2009, 04:15 PM
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Well, say if the UK is allowed to emit 10000 tons of carbon dioxide a month, us mere mortals are not in anyway going to effect that by reducing our own carbon footprint, by using gas, oil, electricity etc because what is not used by us, will be used by someone else anyway. So there will always be 10000 tons emitted regardless
A simply traded commodity opperating within normal supply and demand conventions.
I'm sure there will be plenty of folk who tell why it may or may not work in reality, but that's the theory.
19 November 2009, 04:20 PM
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The credits cap the further increase in emissions and promote more economical methods in the future.
Carbon Credits is going o be the next big instrument to trade!
Carbon Credits is going o be the next big instrument to trade!
19 November 2009, 04:26 PM
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I am fed up to back teeth with the government using this 'global warming' bollocks as an excuse to tax every poor b&stard with a heart beat to oblivion. 
How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? 
Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.
How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.
19 November 2009, 04:31 PM
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I am fed up to back teeth with the government using this 'global warming' bollocks as an excuse to tax every poor b&stard with a heart beat to oblivion. How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.
How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.
Oh no I cannot square this with the 'tax me to death' conspiracy, brain close to exploding, doesn't compute! doesn't compute!
Last edited by Martin2005; 19 November 2009 at 04:32 PM.
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19 November 2009, 04:42 PM
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19 November 2009, 05:06 PM
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19 November 2009, 05:10 PM
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19 November 2009, 05:32 PM
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Im sure the whole things been dreamt up in order to slow down China taking over the western world
20 years ago nobody had even heard of climate change
20 years ago nobody had even heard of climate change
Last edited by dpb; 19 November 2009 at 07:38 PM.
19 November 2009, 06:44 PM
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Then came "global warming "
Now it's " climate change "
It's all b@llocks.
19 November 2009, 07:34 PM
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19 November 2009, 10:31 PM
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Regardless of who is bedding who here .... 
... the only reason for 'carbon trading' rather than a tax on emissions is so big business can make more money.
Dave
PS: the 'Greenies' are now calling it 'carbon' 'cos that's all black and nasty whereas CO2 is a colourless, odourless gas which doesn't conjure up images of 'yuckiness' and cries of 'Oh God, we must save the planet!' ......
... the only reason for 'carbon trading' rather than a tax on emissions is so big business can make more money.Dave
PS: the 'Greenies' are now calling it 'carbon' 'cos that's all black and nasty whereas CO2 is a colourless, odourless gas which doesn't conjure up images of 'yuckiness' and cries of 'Oh God, we must save the planet!' ......
19 November 2009, 10:36 PM
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Regardless of who is bedding who here .... ... the only reason for 'carbon trading' rather than a tax on emissions is so big business can make more money.
Dave
PS: the 'Greenies' are now calling it 'carbon' 'cos that's all black and nasty whereas CO2 is a colourless, odourless gas which doesn't conjure up images of 'yuckiness' and cries of 'Oh God, we must save the planet!' ......
... the only reason for 'carbon trading' rather than a tax on emissions is so big business can make more money.Dave
PS: the 'Greenies' are now calling it 'carbon' 'cos that's all black and nasty whereas CO2 is a colourless, odourless gas which doesn't conjure up images of 'yuckiness' and cries of 'Oh God, we must save the planet!' ......
19 November 2009, 10:48 PM
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I am fed up to back teeth with the government using this 'global warming' bollocks as an excuse to tax every poor b&stard with a heart beat to oblivion. How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.
How come we are still taking this crap when there is no scientific evidence that we are to blame for climate change, but yet there is a vast amount suggesting that it is just the earth going through it's normal cycle? Aren't we due for a global climate shift? Based on the earths past history, one is not long around the corner.I'd like to make it Plus-100, but i haven't bought enough "credits" from the quangos that are implementing pointless "carbon trading schemes" to feather their own nests
mb
19 November 2009, 10:57 PM
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The tide is turning, and the Gore-ites will be exposed as the lying, snake-oil selling fraudsters that they really are!!
mb
19 November 2009, 11:00 PM
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Climate Change Fraud - CO2 is not Carbon
"... So how did CO2 become synonymous with Carbon? First of all, somebody with extraordinary public relations skills realized that CO2 in and of itself is an odorless, colorless natural gas that is the byproduct of every living organism on the planet, a major gas released by volcanoes (and other geothermal processes), is necessary for the survival of all plant life on earth, is not a pollutant, and just doesn't sound that 'dirty.' Carbon, on the other hand, is associated with coal, reminds you of something dark and sooty, and is much easier to illustrate when showing black chunks of CO2 billowing from factories, cars, houses, and skyscrapers. And doesn't a Carbon Tax roll of the tongue just a little bit easier than a Carbon Dioxide Tax? So the IPCC in its infinite marketing wisdom modified their press-ready reports and substituted the word Carbon for CO2 wherever plausible. The media ATE it up. Hey, they have to sell papers and magazines too, which they wouldn't be able to do without the CO2 that feeds the trees they chop down for the paper ..."
But hey, there's no conspiracy to tax the cr*p out of us is there. No, 'course not .....
Dave
19 November 2009, 11:07 PM
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No, ******* like Ed Millipede call it "carbon" because they don't have a fecking clue that what they are talking about is "plant food" - essential for, er, plants and trees and grass and, er, food (even if it is delivered by cows etc.).
The tide is turning, and the Gore-ites will be exposed as the lying, snake-oil selling fraudsters that they really are!!
mb
The tide is turning, and the Gore-ites will be exposed as the lying, snake-oil selling fraudsters that they really are!!
mb
Now why is necessary for people to constantly make dumbass 'play on words' out of peoples names, it's childish, facile and does absolutely nothing to demonstrate a depth or breadth of understanding of the issues, it's kind of a Sun reader thing, and bloody annoying.
Now I don't know if GW is driven by human beings anymore than you do, but if it is and people like start to hold sway, then we're all fcuked aren't we?
19 November 2009, 11:12 PM
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'Carbon' is NOT being emitted!
Climate Change Fraud - CO2 is not Carbon
"... So how did CO2 become synonymous with Carbon? First of all, somebody with extraordinary public relations skills realized that CO2 in and of itself is an odorless, colorless natural gas that is the byproduct of every living organism on the planet, a major gas released by volcanoes (and other geothermal processes), is necessary for the survival of all plant life on earth, is not a pollutant, and just doesn't sound that 'dirty.' Carbon, on the other hand, is associated with coal, reminds you of something dark and sooty, and is much easier to illustrate when showing black chunks of CO2 billowing from factories, cars, houses, and skyscrapers. And doesn't a Carbon Tax roll of the tongue just a little bit easier than a Carbon Dioxide Tax? So the IPCC in its infinite marketing wisdom modified their press-ready reports and substituted the word Carbon for CO2 wherever plausible. The media ATE it up. Hey, they have to sell papers and magazines too, which they wouldn't be able to do without the CO2 that feeds the trees they chop down for the paper ..."
But hey, there's no conspiracy to tax the cr*p out of us is there. No, 'course not .....
Dave
Climate Change Fraud - CO2 is not Carbon
"... So how did CO2 become synonymous with Carbon? First of all, somebody with extraordinary public relations skills realized that CO2 in and of itself is an odorless, colorless natural gas that is the byproduct of every living organism on the planet, a major gas released by volcanoes (and other geothermal processes), is necessary for the survival of all plant life on earth, is not a pollutant, and just doesn't sound that 'dirty.' Carbon, on the other hand, is associated with coal, reminds you of something dark and sooty, and is much easier to illustrate when showing black chunks of CO2 billowing from factories, cars, houses, and skyscrapers. And doesn't a Carbon Tax roll of the tongue just a little bit easier than a Carbon Dioxide Tax? So the IPCC in its infinite marketing wisdom modified their press-ready reports and substituted the word Carbon for CO2 wherever plausible. The media ATE it up. Hey, they have to sell papers and magazines too, which they wouldn't be able to do without the CO2 that feeds the trees they chop down for the paper ..."
But hey, there's no conspiracy to tax the cr*p out of us is there. No, 'course not .....
Dave
But you can't emitt Co2 without burning carbon can you?
NO THERE IS NO CONSPIRACY, NEVER HAS BEEN, and the day you drop this ridiculous notion is the day that your argument start to gain credibility. The 'Tax conspiracy' is so full of holes it sinks your whole theory.
20 November 2009, 08:00 AM
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20 November 2009, 08:06 AM
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Dave
20 November 2009, 09:36 AM
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[QUOTE=Martin2005;9058374]But you can't emitt Co2 without burning carbon can you?
This has to be the dumbest quote of all time. CO2, apart from being essential to plants for a start, is also actually required for breathing. Without it we can't breathe funniliy enough. Some people just have no clue...
Anyway, here's some interesting news. Hadley CRU hacked.
Breaking News Story: CRU has apparently been hacked – hundreds of files released Watts Up With That?
More clueless Gore.
Gore has no clue – a few million degrees here and there and pretty soon we’re talking about real temperature Watts Up With That?
What's that Mr. Gore, the Coriolis effect works the other way in your world?
Not finding any, Gore airbrushes in hurricanes for his new book Watts Up With That?
This has to be the dumbest quote of all time. CO2, apart from being essential to plants for a start, is also actually required for breathing. Without it we can't breathe funniliy enough. Some people just have no clue...
Anyway, here's some interesting news. Hadley CRU hacked.
Breaking News Story: CRU has apparently been hacked – hundreds of files released Watts Up With That?
More clueless Gore.
Gore has no clue – a few million degrees here and there and pretty soon we’re talking about real temperature Watts Up With That?
What's that Mr. Gore, the Coriolis effect works the other way in your world?
Not finding any, Gore airbrushes in hurricanes for his new book Watts Up With That?
Last edited by Klaatu; 20 November 2009 at 09:43 AM.
20 November 2009, 11:48 AM
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No, ******* like Ed Millipede call it "carbon" because they don't have a fecking clue that what they are talking about is "plant food" - essential for, er, plants and trees and grass and, er, food (even if it is delivered by cows etc.).
The tide is turning, and the Gore-ites will be exposed as the lying, snake-oil selling fraudsters that they really are!!
mb
The tide is turning, and the Gore-ites will be exposed as the lying, snake-oil selling fraudsters that they really are!!
mb
