scud8

iTrader: (1)

Has anyone on here had any experience of appealing against a planning decision that has been approved? I've been looking at the planning inspectorate website, but everything there talks about appealing against a planning rejection.

To cut a long story short our local council is trying to push through a proposal for a significant development which will result in the only access from the estate I live on being almost impossible to use during rush hours. I have no expectation that objections will get a fair hearing, so I'm trying to find out what right of appeal we have.

The junction is an uncontrolled T junction where vehicles leaving the estate do not have right of way. This is currently okay because the road that does have right of way is the access road to our local sports centre. However, using the figures from the planning application they are projecting over 1100 vehicles using this road during the morning peak hour once the development is complete - which by my calculations is an average of one every three seconds or so. They then claim that the average delay to vehicles leaving the estate will be less than one second in that peak hour, which doesn't make sense. We already have longer delays than that in the evening when the sports centre is moderately busy.

I've obviously pointed this out in a written objection to the planning application, but I've just received a letter saying they are planning on recommending the development, There will be a planning meeting at which I can apply to speak if I want - but all objectors wishing to speak will be allowed a maximum of three minutes between them. I can understand them wishing to constrain objections like this to Joe Bloggs' extension, but this seems totally unreasonable for an application to develop a business park and park and ride coach station that will seriously impact over 100 homes.

Since the local council are both the applicant and responsible for determining the application there is obviously a serious conflict of interest here - and they seem to be resorting to dirty tricks to push it through (like sending out notices a few weeks before Xmas, second class, so they took over 10 days to get delivered, then setting a deadline for objections of 31 December). One councillor has already been disqualified from taking part in the process because he was caught trying to set up a pre-planning meeting meeting - which is completely illegal.

Scooby Soon!

Have you tried Highways agency? I am sitting in a building at the moment that cant be demolished and developed (which is good for me ) because 2 or 3 cars park on the road near to it. Over £50k on appeals and still the highways agency wont let it go through.

Dunk

iTrader: (1)

The planning committee is independant of the council, however the council will have a case officer attending who's likely to recommend for approval. The committee members will then vote to accept or decline. From my experience in fighting a local application, it is critical to get your local councillor on board and to ensure they're attending the meeting. If they feel a lot of local political votes rest on it, they'll increase their interest. Normally the councillors tend to tow the party line and support their fellow political party members, so establishing the politcal make up of the meeting is critical. (See previous meeting minutes for the attendees....you may have to change your political bias to suit !) Get your local councillor to ensure to do a site visit and bring the others with them, to fully understand the implications and meet the real voters. From my understanding once the application has been approved, you have no right of appeal, if your the applicant you can appeal forever after ! (Get prof help if your serious.)

HTH

D

248SPG

I think once it has been approved you won't stand a chance - Could be wrong with what little dealings I have had with planning permission.

Lee247

Not so sure about that. Our useless Council approved a factory to be built not far from us. Would have meant moving our right of way to make way for a roundabout access the factory. Something the useless goons did not think about.
1 year in,, they still haven't got any further.
Contact Milamber, he is on the ball

scoobyvirgin

Agree, Milamber is your best bet.

_Meridian_

iTrader: (1)

Yep - all the various political deals and minor bribes have now been done.


M

Leslie

I would go to the planning meeting and use your 3 minutes to insist on proper traffic control at that junction on the grounds of safety.

Les

Milamber

iTrader: (2)

Apparently not, only just seen this!

r32

Planning committee independant? You must be joking, all those on the committee are councillors, being advised by council planning officers. How is that independant?

I've been to a few local planning meetings and I am gobsmacked at how close these people are to the developers (particularly for social housing). Passing applications that are not complete and even fall foul of the guidlines, I'm also surprised at how little (if any) notice is taken of the local residents concerns.

Seems to me that if the Council wanted to knock down a Cathedral and build an estate of 'social houses' then it would sail through.

I'm so incensed at some of the decisions taken by our local council I am considering running as an independant.

But back to this gents original concern, he should have complained before it got to the planning committee, then he could have applied for a whole three minutes to put forward a case against the plan. It is now almost a done deal. Only a huge demonstration by a considerable number of the local residents will get it looked at again, which is now unlikely.

Councils (County or local) dont need to apply for planning permission, they are deemed to know the rules so technically any council development should be within planning guidlines. This was a change to reduce red tape for local government. However all the change does is allow them to do just what they want sod every one else.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

I've had an interesting day on this. From a bit of research it looks like once it is approved the only possible appeals are to an ombudsman if there is a case for misadministration (ie. someone in the planning department didn't do their job properly) or to the high court - where you are talking about £20K-50K legal fees with very little chance of having your costs paid by the other side even if you win (and a chance of having their costs awarded against you if the claim is considered vexatious).

I managed to get hold of the report that is going in front of the planning committee and this has paraphrased my specific objection of the grounds of loss of amenity into "the neighbours are concerned about an increase in traffic" and not questioned any of the statements the developers have made about the junction operating satisfactorily at all times. Especially irritating when you read the amount of crap in the report about the effect on bat and slow-worm habitats - what about the effect on my habitat.

I managed to get hold of the guy in the planning department responsible for writing the report and he has agreed to write an update that makes it clear we are objecting on grounds of significant loss of amenity and safety. He also put me on to the people in the county highways authority who are supposed to have checked the traffic modelling and they have agreed to double check it and get back to me (and they agree it sounds very suspect). I will be calling my local councillor this evening as well.

One thing on our side is the fact that they want at least part of the development (a park and ride coach station) operational in time for the 2012 Olympics, so if it gets held up by the ombudsman or in court they will be stuffed. Also a developer is in the process of building ~100 houses/flats that will share the same access, so they should be highly motivated to contribute to legal costs if they otherwise can't sell any of the properties.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

If the planning application has been approved, then there is nothing you can do about it really.

You will of needed to demonstrate with TRICS(vehicle movement) analysis that the extra vehicle movements would adversely affect the current local population, safety amenity etc.

But if the application has been approved you're doomed.

Been there, done that.

Andy

scud8

iTrader: (1)

It's not been approved yet - the committee meeting is next week.

FlightMan

This is easy to resolve.

Simply claim you're a Muslim and the development violates the teachings of your faith.

Job done.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Andy, is it possible to get hold of any software for doing TRICS analysis, or would we need to engage a consultant with experience?

r32

If its not gone to committee then you still have a chance, most planning committees visit the site on the day of the meting or the day before to go through the issues.
See if its possible to meet them at the site. Also make sure you take photos of the junction get them sent, along with your written concerns and get your 3 minutes at the actual meeting. Resident forums also have quite a pull, so see if you cant get as many of your neighbours to a meeting. Document the objections and minute the meeting. By doing this we have got a local development changed considerably. The more written and recorded objections the more chance you have even if you type out something and get individual neighbours to sign and send in a copy.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Trics is a software which calculates vehicle movements. I doubt you would be able to get it. You need to contact a consultant highway engineer.

Andy

GU5

Trics isn't a piece of software that'll calculate vehicle movements. It's a data base which will suggest a 'likely' vehicle attraction/ distribution (per unit or 100m2) based on like sites around the country. This is done by using actual traffic surveys of developments etc. The additional traffic flows can then be used to assess the junction capacity for future years.

Arcady, Picady and Transyt will all be more useful in assessing the junctions / roundabouts / signals etc. or something like Paramics or Vissim to give an easily understandable visual demonstration.

However, if it's already been given Planning Permission it'll all be too late unless the process has not been carried out according to the guidelines.

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Wish me luck - I'm speaking against the application at the planning committee meeting tomorrow.

I've been discussing my concerns with the county council transport authority who are formally responsible for deciding whether the impact of the development on the local road system is okay. Interestingly, they do not have any traffic modelling capability in house so have been referring all my questions to the same consultancy that produced the transport assessment for the applicant (our local town council). I can't understand why this isn't viewed as a conflict of interest.

The point of debate seems to be centring around what is an acceptable/safe gap in traffic to turn right out of a side road. The consultancy have modelled the junction using an acceptable gap of 2.5 seconds, whereas using the junction every day I think it is more like 5 or 6 seconds (it is a give way junction, but the sight lines are so bad everyone stops). They claim to have done a site visit but I fail to see how they can think it is safe to pull out with only a 2.5 second gap.