ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Bizarre as the title sounds it maybe a possibility.

Some background:

Our house and next door (built on a level about 2ft higher up) have had a tarmac driveway, slabbed patio etc. Now, next door had their tarmac drive dug up and had a stone chipping drive way put laid on the cheap (badly too, as they just poured it on and didn't roll it). This was last summer/autumn.

What has happened is our patio has moved - big style! Basically, all the paving slabs have become loose, I noted it during winter and it was evident that all the pointing was comming out from all the slabs becoming loose, I could also hear water sqelching underneath the slabs when walking on them. To add to it looks like the corner of the house has suffered a little movement below the damp course (nothing major, but a concern none the less).

My theory is the increased ground water-flow via next door's drive. It just seems too much of a coincidence that a stable patio that has been so for many years suddenly becomes unstable in under six months.

If that was proven to be the case; could I hold next door liable?

I'm going to re-lay the patio at my own expense this time; but if it happens again I'm not going to be too happy. Inccidentally, when I had the builder round for a quote his first question was "How long have they had that stone driveway?" (as well as commenting on how shyte it was ).

Thoughts?

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

I am surprised the earth moves so much at the south pole

Xx-IAN-xX

Hard cheader live with it

Lee247

Funny you should mention this We have a similar problem. Bloke behind us applied for planning permission to turn the old barn into a house. Got it and decided to build a massive cellar under the whole barn. This was about 6' from our property. We kicked off and as usual the Council did nowt about it even though it was not in the plans. The hole he dug was left for about a year before he started to rebuild the barn. One year on, after his house has been built, we have developed 3 huge cracks above the doors of the kitchen, doors to dining room and upstairs on the landing.
I would not know who to sue, the Council for ignoring and letting this bloke get away with it, even though we are in a "wet" area, or him.
I'll watch this thread with interest, as I feel we are going to need some help on this one, especially as we were hoping to sell this year

jods

To the OP. I would pay for a structural analyst to take a look. It will probably cost you 300 quid. If the problem is down to your neighbours drive - sue him for the analysis and rebuild costs. Other method is to talk to neighbour and ask him to help relay patio but it sounds to me that his drive is gonna be a constant source of grief

Account deleted by request

If you have any hint of movement in your dwelling you need to get a structural engineers report as stated above. Then you need to talk to your insurance company, that's why we pay buildings insurance. if the report shows movemnt and blames next door, Imho without seeing it would have to be a brave engineer to blame your neighbour straight off.

I'm sure they will suggest a monitoring period to see if it gets worse and to ascrtain why it is happening, then they will be in an easier position to blame your neighbour.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Agreed.

If it goes to court I am sure your neighbour will show up with an 'expert witness' engineer who states that the issues is nothing to do with their rubbish drive!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Cheers, I suppose it gong to be a tricky one, we are on freindly terms with the nieghbours. Which is why I'm sorting it out myself this time. But if it goes again its not going to be tolerable; might even be cheaper to pay to re-lay next door's drive in tarmac!

Ground water flow is a problem in the area as its a patchy combination of clay and sandstone; These are fifty year old houses, so really my thoughts are anything that happens in recent times is due to a recent change that affect groundwater flow; Otherwise the patio would have moved a long time ago.

Its a fifty year old house and the patio is probably twenty five plus years old, so it stood for this long without issue; So why now? Something in the locality must have changed recenty to cause it IMO.

The alternate plan is replace the fence and gravelboards (2ft between their ground level and ours) between the properties with a brick wall, neighbour may go halves on this, and I can get the builder to put in extra deep footings that should redirect any flow towards the back garden and towards the back lawn

All I really want is to stop it happening again.

David Lock

What, if any, drainage arrangements does neighbour have for his new driveway? dl

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

None; They just dug up the tarmac and poured on a few tons of cotswold chippings. Previously rainwater run-off just drained into the main road.

Their driveway was more or less level, sloping very slightly towards the road. Our driveway slopes around 2ft down towards our house its built on a lower ground level to next door; Our tarmac drive drains into channeling thats along the front of the house.

I should add their front garden was just crazy paving, that has also been dug up and replaced with a lawn at around the same time.

Leslie

Its a difficult one Ali, you would have to be able to prove that their rubbish drive is causing those problems, especially to your house of course.

You would need professional backing or you case would peobably fail.

Les

adam6900

iTrader: (4)

Could be so many things! one thing is a leaking water main, get the water board out to check the pipes first

dj219957

Speak with your insurance company. Let them decide where the blame lies.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Hmm, tricky one this. I don't know the law at all, but the other side of the coin is that your neighbour will probably quite rightly claim that he has the right to have a drive of his choice.

I really don't know how the law would see it

Guv

iTrader: (8)

Even if you are friendly with next door, call the insurance company as if the blame is laid on the neighbours then your insurance will claims of there insurance and they will sort it out between themselves all you and the neighbours will have to do is pay your excess .............

If there has been movement on your house I cannot stress how serious this is as it can effect any future house sale or re-mortgage if works are not carried out or properly.

End if the day friendly is one thing but the roof or your head and your familes head is more important and I'm sure you wouldn't be £1000 out of pocket the **** did hit the fan

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Does house insurance cover a patio? Just to reiterate; its the patio that is moving, not the house; Barring a little pointing on three bricks, which could have been there before TBH. As opposed to the thirty plus large paving slabs that are now all over the show and was fine this time last year.

cookstar

iTrader: (6)

iirc, the law does have a say on it, you can't just sling any old driveway down now, without considering adequate drainage.

Maybe a call to your local building inspector wouldn't go amiss, to ask for advice, the ones I have spoken to seem to be quite forthcoming with info. All you can lose is a phone call.

Kieran_Burns

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure it's not just waste gas from the decomposing corpses? You may not have left adequate ventilation.

I did say that you should line everything with lime first but would you listen?

David Lock

As a long distance guess it sounds like a groundwater/clay problem possibly caused by excess surface water coming from neighbour plus exceptional weather conditions over the last year. It could even be a frost problem. Trucks delivering stone could have damaged any drain pipes which are probably clay based. I assume neighbour's rainwater on new drive now goes straight through stone whereas it use to drain off into road and you are 2 foot lower which doesn't help. Have you any idea on where water table is on your patch?

Do you know of any other nearby houses that have had problems? Obviously you need to be sure that your house is not affected in any way.

dl

MMT WRX

I wouldn't get the insurance company involved if you were thinking of selling the house in the near future.

I think drives now have to be permeable. Block paved drives must be laid on permeable underlay so that rain water is absorbed through into the ground underneath rather than being directed to mains drains. This is a result of the floods a couple of years ago. On this basis I would think the chippings they poured on will be more in line with current legislation than the original tarmac drive.

Are you sure this is not a result of the snow and frost just after Christmas?
I know my paved drive is all over the place as a result of this and a wall that was built last year had loads of the pointing pushed out.

Luminous

iTrader: (3)

Wow, the law is a strange animal. You learn something new everyday

hodgy0_2

sounds like this would come under the "Party Wall Act"

http://www.mypropertyguide.co.uk/art...ll-notices.htm

which essentially states that the developer has to provide - at his cost, an independent surveyor - of your choice, to asses the impact of his work on your property

"The most time consuming task that the Party Wall Surveyor performs, prior to the work commencing, is the preparation of a schedule of condition of the adjoining property. It is essential that this is done accurately so that any damages can be properly attributed. If there are two surveyors this is prepared by the Building Owner’s surveyor and proofed by the Adjoining Owner’s surveyor. "