JoanUK300

Dave, yesterdays match was REALY quiet, so it sounds rather suspicious to me as we can usually hear them training, let alone a match day.
We also have the problem of the chairman of the football team is also on the committee at the social club and a few others I`m sure.
Thanks for the info and I`m off to the paper now to get a little information from OUR side across now.
Wish me luck?

Joan.

Edited to say.....there was also hardly any cars turned up and when they usually come it is choc-a-bloc with cars and lots of little `dinks`.

[Edited by JoanUK300 - 4/2/2002 8:41:35 AM]

JoanUK300

Was told by Neil to post this here as I might get a better response.
I need some advice and help please!


O.K then here goes, the local football team want to upgrade their playing ground to accomodate up to 2000 spectators, put terraces around the pitch and stadiums to league requirements(whatever that means) install turnstiles and an additional car park for 164 cars, that is to name just a few improvements.

As you can guess the local residents are against this, as we are quite a high residential area, this pitch in question has houses on all four sides of it, the amount of expected spectators is, in our opinion, way OTT, and find this totally unacceptable.The proposed car parking is no way near enough space and quite frankly I (we) do not really want this kind of intrusion every weekend.

So guys, I am asking for you to put your heads together to come up with some constructive criticism to hand in our local council, we had a meeting at the council last night and got a deferral date of 26th April, but as we have local elections coming up soon it probably wont be till May sometime.
I really need some help here,as we have quite a fight on our hands and we cannot let this club walk all over us.
Those in my area will understand what I am talking about and for those of you that don`t I urge you to help me in this matter.

Thanks to you all in advance.
Joan.

Kevin Mc

I'm sure Leicester City initially wanted to expand their original stadium by knocking down some Terraced houses, though this did not happen. They have had to build an entirely new ground at a nearby brown field site.

Maybe some of the Leicester fans on the board may know more about the arguments that were seemingly successful?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Count Von Bismarck

Not In My Back Yard!

I know the team you are talkng about - but just wait till the Millwall "Bushwhacker" boys come to visit, you will REALLY regret living there then.

I suggest you sell up and move away before the property prices fall even further when it becomes common knowledge amongst potential buyers. You could have a virtually worthless, unsaleable house if you dont get out soon.

It is worse than subsidence, argon gas, a traffic-choked dual carriageway outside the front and massive electricity pylons in the garden all rolled into one!

JoanUK300

Thanks for that.........that`s what we`re all afraid of.!

Joan.

Count Von Bismarck

sorry i was taking the mickey a bit

get local press involved

Get lawyers on the residents group - they are good at this sort of thing

you need proper genuine objections - worries about house prices simply wont wash- even though it is what most are most worried about even if they wouldn't admit it

health issues: pollution/noise/litter/car fumes/ you can trump up something there im sure

stress, especially to elderly, infirm residents in the old peoples home nearby - trump these things up

any special wildlife affected : trees plants animals?

any historic or architecturally intersting or important buildings threatened?


any local celebrities on your side??

just a few ideas

JoanUK300

Yeah I know you was, but this is quite a concern for us at the moment, luckily my house doesn`t back onto the field so I`m sure those that do are dreading a football stadium at the bottom of their gardens (actually, the perimeter fence is going to be 8` away from the bottom of their fences)
My house is across the road but even when they are playing in the evenings or just practising, the flood lights glare straight into my bedroom and living room and I don`t need the lights on, (saves my electric bill I suppose).
Anyway thanks for your suggestions I will get the others together and see if we can go to a solicitor for advice and maybe then they will realise that this is going to be totally unacceptable to the residents.

Cheers everyone.
If we win the drinks are on me.

Joan.

g0d

Just deal with it and buy your season ticket. football is the glue that holds the world together.

Diablo

Your **** it is

gOd - get a life mate

g0d

get one?
I created it.

Fulham71

im afraid that people who buy houses near football grounds know that there is a possibility of the club expanding in time
The football ground was there long before you lived there no doubt
I am a Fulham Season ticket holder & have gone through all this with the local residents there
I think that as with the residents of Fulham there proposal was accepted as it was tasteful & provided extra facilities for the locals
i hope that they will do the same where you are

JUMPING OFF SOAP BOX NOW

JoanUK300

When we bought the house, the football club in question was relatively small and was only playing once a fortnight if they were lucky, they had a few supporters and were good to the local residents.
However a larger club want to take over this club and improve it to fit in with league requirements. Bearing in mind the previous club had only on average 50 supporters at a game the new club expect attendances of 1000+, the stadium they want to build is HUGE, and the parking is already a nightmare. The original club was a `Sports & Social Club` and has residential houses on all four sides of the pitch, it is a high residential area with only one road leading to the club, this road struggles to get two cars down it so you can imagine what it is going to be like when approx 250 cars are expected to turn up.
I have no problem with `some` upgrading of the club but it seems to have gone from a `bottom of the league` local football club to a premiership league in one foul swoop. (Bit exaggerated but gives you an idea of the scale of developments)
The club has not consulted it`s own members or it`s committee yet as they fear a backlash, need I say more!
I could go on for hours but wont bore you with all the info I have gathered.
Lets just hope this can be settled with all sides happy.

Joan.

paulr

The good news.

Most football clubs have a womens team so you could always play for them.............

The not so good news.

I spoke to a mate of mine who's a councillor,on the local planning commitee.
Basically 85% of planning applications get passed.In his opinion the law is heavily weighted towards the applicant.The only real grounds for objection are safety; ie traffic,parking,etc,would people be stopping on a main road to drop people off,is the exit to the ground onto a busy dual carriageway.......you know the sort of thing.
Just because some people dont like it,or it devalues their house,in his opinion doesn't count for much.Its just a case of the developer fullfilling certain legal requirements.

His advice was to go to the local CAB.

Paul.

Dave P

Our local school which is also bang in the middle of a residential area wanted to install floodlights, create a car park and a new all weather pitch so I have some experience.

Sadly in some ways Paulr is correct and they got their planning permission. However when they built the new pitch they did so under a previous planning application (to save money) and so we are using this to stop them carrying on the development.

If you mail me off line I can give you some more tips and hints, and my phone number but here are some good tips.

-Get together a group of like mided residents and hold regular meetings. Keep to the facts as these things can get out of hand.

-Avoid emotion, it does not help and has no weight in the planning process.

-The loss of value in your property is sadly not a planning issue.

-Find out every member who sits on your local planning committee and lobby them. Get as many people to write with VALID planning objections as possible.

-Talk to both your local councilor and county councilor. YOU MUST GET THESE PEOPLE ON SIDE. Make it clear you vote for them!!! You can try your MP but they tend to be of little use.

-Be wary of the press as they may encourage people to support the scheme inadvertantly.

-They will probably need to upgrade the floodlights. Get evidence that the floodlights as they are already cause you loss of amenity, video footage at night etc.

-You mentioned the road, hit this on safety grounds, pollution, parking etc. If they expect crowds of 2000 plus but are only providing parking for 162 cars where will the rest of the visitors park.

- Following on do a traffic count as of now on match days and non match days.

-Where do they propose to create the car park, is it a redevelopment of a wilderness area, bats and badgers sets will help here. Get Tree Preservation Orders slapped on any trees you can that may be at risk from the development.

-Be warned they will try to sneak things through....

-Petitions do not work. They are a waste of time as any Tom Dick or Harry will sign one. A mass of letters is the best way.

-At every planning meeting get as many people to show up as possible. This will unnerve any councillor who may be planning to back the scheme.

Good Luck in your fight

Dave

JoanUK300

Thanks for your help Dave, it will be useful.
Story so far........
Today there is a big match and I went to take photos (approx 12 noon) of the roads concerned as these become VERY congested, when I went round there, there were only 20 or so cars, and these belong to residents. The game was due to kick off at 3pm so I went round again at 2.45pm to photo all the cars, low and behold the club in question have opened their spare field, something they have never done before, and a few cars had parked in there. Was also a bit suspicious as the burger bar hadn`t turned up either, AND a lot of the supporters were walking. I wonder, maybe I have a suspicious mind, but just maybe the Football Club in question have notified their members to keep the noise down and use public transport if possible?
As for the councillors, I have just read that one of our MPs is a fully paid up member of this club, and I bet they invited the local councillors to this match to see for themselves what "good boys" they can be. Sadly, this is only going to be a one off, so roll on 6th April, when they have another match and I will be there with the camera for evidence.
We are setting up a meeting with the residents for the end of April and will be inviting the council to come along and here all sides of the story.


I will email you if I need anymore help.


Thanks once again.
Joan.

Fulham71

which team is it ????

JoanUK300

Fulham71, I have emailed you.
Hope you don`t mind.

Joan.

Dave P

Joan,

Advice would be to ask councillors for a deferal until the new season starts as it may be difficult to assess impact in the next few weeks.

Councillors tend to have little to do with MP's. You hyave to get as many people to write to and call these people. The more weight they feel is against them the more they back down. Find a tame one on your side and then use them to work for you.

State in your letters that the field has been opened only once and also check whether it is allowed to be used as a temporary car park. Write to the club and ask if they intend to use the field on a regular basis as a car park or whether this was a one off. Then ask the Council Planning Officer (whose name you must get and badger remorselesly) if they have permission to use it as a car park!!!! Take photo's of the cars in the field and use them against them. If they are using it regularly they may have to apply for change of use. To do it retrospectively may be embarrasing for them and you can use this to muddy them.

You have to fight dirty with these people!!!! Treat everything with suspicion.

We got a load of leaflets through the door from the school, Mud is For Hippos acusing us of NIMBYism. Ultimately she was accused of using a school database and was charged under the data protection act. Although she was found not guilty it was an unpleasant ride for her.

Continued good luck.

Dave

JoanUK300

Got a meeting first thing tomorrow with the local paper, what do I say now then?

Joan.

Dave P

My advice don't get the papers in yet. Lots of people will read it and may side with the football club saying you are NIMBY's and just want to stop the town having a football ground.

The paper will have to get the side of the football club who will say what a benefit it is for the town and how everyone should support them and encourage supporters. Whilst they may not have viable comments they can call on a lot bigger post bag supporting the scheme than you can of residents... and the mass of letters counts for a lot. People are great at calling others NIMBY's until it's in their back yard.

If you are talking to them be prudent with what you say. Don't get emotive, talk about loss of amenity, parking, danger to kids in the street (helps if you have one). Say you don't object to the football club itself, but think a greenfield out of town site would be more appropriate, especially with their aggresive expansion plans... where will it stop, 50 or 60 now applicatuion for 2,000... what next 5,000 or 10,000 Mention many big clubs are already considering this as a viable option because of transport infrastructure etc.

If they haven't consulted you mention that... be sure of any facts before you say them. Have you seen the plans or is it just rumour....

Good luck

Dave

Funkii Munkii

Joan

Which club, is it Enfield?? I cant imagine who will be buying them out, Barnet?? their old adversaries??, just curious as Barnet were trying for a new stadium at the Copthall near to me and that got blown out by the local council and we already have an athletics track, Rugby fields a driving range and 9 hole golf course and (in best welsh accent) an Olympic size swimming pool on the same site, they offered all new facilities to the community but still it was blocked by the local residents on the grounds of too many cars and pedestrians, the club even contemplated having the local tube line extended to the ground but still no joy. I'm suprised whoever it is can just get planning permission without any local notices and so on. If u r in Enfield you may want to try and find out who the main people in the Barnet protest were,I guess contacting the local paper is a good way of finding them as there were untold stories in the local rag.

Reading your posts I doubt if any group of supporters would be asked to travel to the ground on public transport to lure local residents into a false sense of security, they would still drive there. Maybe its Spurs they are looking for a new ground 2000 capacity sounds about right.

Good Luck with your battle

Dave

JoanUK300

Ok then, back from seeing the newspaper people, went well I thought, he seemed to agree with us on some points and gave us a few hints as to where to go from here. He was intrigued though as to why the club totally refused to upgrade last year, but this year after getting a new committee elected, they want the changes to go ahead, he is going to do some delving for us and will let you all know what happens tommorrow, when the newspaper comes out.

Joan.

Dave P

cool good stuff.

you are lucky to have a decent newspaper. ours was like a wet weekend!!

JoanUK300

Here is a copy of the local paper article.




Will let you know of any updates.
Joan.

JoanUK300

O.K guys.........BIG meeting tonight, residents and football club.
Should be VERY interesting as there are lots of rumours flying round. Got some of my facts from the football club`s website, idiots, fancy posting all the gossip on their website for all to see!

Let you know what happens later,
BTW any good questions I should be asking, ones I haven`t already got!

Joan.