tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

I have been looking at the possibility of bringing in a child carer on a part time basis, to help my wife with the daytime workload of caring for our twins. I spoke with a number of agencies to satisfy myself that the staff they provide had been CRB checked to appropriate levels. All agencies confirmed this.

We got to a point where we had chosen an agency to go with, and when I asked for proof of the CRB check for the lady they were to assign to us, they refused. When I enquired why I could not have a written statement to prove their employee had been screened, I was advised that under data protection legislation, they were unable to release this to me. I would need to accept their word that the individual was cleared to work with children.

I decided to verify this with another of the agencies and with the organisation that provides the CRB checks, and it would seem there is no requirement to release proof that an individual has been checked.

Hence the title of my post - who exactly is this legislation designed to protect - in my new found experience, it would not appear to be in favour of the children.

Hysteria1983

Well legally the agency cannot employ anyone working with children unless they have a crb check, so if they don't have one the shouldn't be on the books.

With how strict things are where children are involved, I doubt VERY much that any agency would employ people who didn't have a clear crb check.

I agree that this system is not to everyones convenience, BUT if you are not going to 100% employ someone, then you can't really see all their personal info.

In theory, you could be anyone just after adresses, DOB, etc for fraud purposes.

David Lock

I am guessing that if you took on an agency girl you could ask her to give permission to the agency to confirm that she has been checked. I see no reason if she is genuine why she would refuse to do this. dl

Hysteria1983

Exactly, if the person doesn't mind, then I don't see the issue..

I have had a few crb checks, and I would be happy for most people to access the info that was needed.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I think it depends who requests the CRB.

Not releasing the CRB certificate is a narrow and strict interpretation of the DPA - they are playing it safe.

If the CRB was requested by the individual then it theirs to release to you.

If the CRB was requested by the agency, then assuming it is held under the DPA, they cannot release it to you as it will not be part of the intended use.

I guess my question is, why do you not trust the agency?

Finally - getting a part time carer is a brilliant idea - worked wonders for us with our two kids. And, out of interest, we got a GREAT nanny from the internet using a nanny dating type agency thing. The few we had from the 'proper' agencies were never quite as committed.

tarmac terror

iTrader: (2)

@Trout - its not exactly a case of not trusting the agency, I had assumed that the child protection legislation was stacked in my favour, that organisations would be bending over backwards to prove on paper that all checks had been carried out and nothing adverse had been found, not using the data protection act as a reason for non-disclosure. They have given me a copy of their 'safeguarding' policy and their code of conduct, which I am currently working my way through.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Data protection and Child Protection are two completely separate bits of legislation - one predating the other by years.

The Child Protection legislation is not stacked in your favour - it is stacked in the child's favour.

Hysteria1983

Yep Trout says it all.

The children are protected.

I'm not sure how it works with a nanny though, as childcare workers or anyone involved in working with or around children has to have a crb for every place of work.

If I worked at a school and a nursery, I would have to have the crb check done by both estaishments.

I am sure it is different with an agency though, else the staff would have crb forms coming out of their ears!

David Lock

When my boy was at home he used to give private guitar lessons to kids at home. I wondered if he should get a bit of paper from crb people saying he had been checked out but this wasn't possible? So I never understood what he should have done and similar situations must arise loads of time.

In fact my daughter was also trying to organise some work experience working with kids at different hospitals. But officially every hospital had to get her crb cleared so this plan was buggered up. You can't win!

dl

Hysteria1983

I don't think that minors can have a crb check as the law regarding criminal convictions is different for them.
So the crb check wouldn't be appropriate.

Under those circumstances I suppose there could be something else in place, but I suppose the extent that officials would have to go to to create another such form would be seen as unnecessary under the circumstances.

David Lock

H1983 - this was for crb checks on 21 and 23 year olds - sorry I should have said "grown up kids"!! d

Hysteria1983

Oh, well I don't understand.

What were the reasons for them not being allowed to have the crb check taken out?

David Lock

Because you couldn't/can't take it out on yourself as an individual. It has to be done by a company, say the group you work for.

So in my daughter's case, for example, if she wanted to do a week working with kids in a special school the school had to take out (or were supposed to) a crb check which takes for ever and costs quite a bit. So 6 weeks work in 6 schools meant 6 crb checks so it was a non-starter. dl

Leslie

On a different tack I know, but I was not too impressed about the maximum time requirement for a decision to be taken over taking an abused child into care has now been reduced from I think 52 weeks to 30 weeks.

How much damage can be done to that child in the 30 weeks while they are deliberating their decision I wonder.

Les

The Zohan

From personal experience you can get a personal CRB check done, this is yours and you can show it to potential employers. Most decent companies will however run a check at their cost to satisfy themselves that the person is legit, the CRB check is current and there have been no 'issues' since its start date.

I would speak to another agency to see how they react when asked, i would also ask for the references from the last three people the childminder has worked for, or who the childminder has worked for over the past 12 months and contact them all.

I am pretty sure they will need a E-CRB check - it is an advanced and more in-depth CRB check

David Lock

Well that's odd Paul because I did check this for the kids. I'll have another go because I would like to know the score. David

The Zohan

I need to get my own personal one done so will pay the fee, get the check and then show it to whoever i need to if they ask.

Local council have given me a ecrb form to fill in (they pay for it) as i am looking to work for the council, coaching sport.

Having my own should save a lot of time applying for work as i can show it, however the council do their own as do a lot of private clubs and companies - it seems to be a policy thing.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Anybody can get a CRB check done.

This is the easiest and cheapest as far as I know.

CRB Check

It usually takes around 14 days to come back. David - you have either been misinformed or looked in the wrong place.

David Lock

Well that's very interesting. I am going back about 18 months and spoke to the CRB HQ - or thought I did. So looks like I got it wrong. Thanks d

David Lock

Well I had a chat with CRB part of Home Office just now. An individual CANNOT apply for a CRB check on him/herself. It has to be done through what they call an "Umbrella Organisation".

===================

Who can apply for a CRB Check?
CRB checks cannot be obtained by members of the public directly but are only available to organisations and only for those professions, offices, employments, work and occupations listed in the Exceptions Order to the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974.

For this reason your application will be processed either by your employer, if it is registered with the CRB, or a third party organisation, called an Umbrella Body, which is registered with the CRB.

dl

Leslie

Has Scotland got its own rules on that then?

Les

Trout

iTrader: (1)

David - you are incorrect. I applied for a CRB check around 20 months ago for a job and my associates need to go through the same process. We all do it personally.

Try the link I gave you

The link even has a button for personal CRB check!

David Lock

I did look at the Scottish link. But what do you make of the Home Office facts in my post? Plus a longish chat I had with one of the CRB staff. Oh well we must both be right somehow or other. Perhaps you and your guys were classed as a company?

Anyway not worth losing sleep over

d

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I can assure you that I did it as an individual. It even has this provision on that site.

The trick may be that Disclosure Scotland is acting as the CRB check agency...

...but the end result is the same. I applied, paid £10 and got a CRB check.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

By the way I am pretty sure I am not on that professions list either.

Many large companies like Lloyds Bank use that facility for their staff. IBM do it, Deloitte does it...