Download fine
#1
Download fine
Just a warning to anyone who uses utorrent for downloads, someone at work got a letter this week saying they wanted £350 for a song he downloaded or they'll take him to court - it happening
#2
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Not from ACS:law by any chance was it? Take a look at:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08...tor_complaint/
...amongst various other interesting articles you can find in 30 secs with Google.
[edit]: can't resist posting a few more
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09...er_email_leak/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._file_sharing/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._letter_wrong/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11418970
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...php?p=32335510
...and, of course, good old Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACS:Law
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08...tor_complaint/
...amongst various other interesting articles you can find in 30 secs with Google.
[edit]: can't resist posting a few more
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/09...er_email_leak/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._file_sharing/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01..._letter_wrong/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11418970
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...php?p=32335510
...and, of course, good old Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACS:Law
Last edited by AndyC_772; 21 October 2010 at 07:43 PM.
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#5
He is probably being accused uploading rather than downloading, this is a good site for advice, http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/
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Be careful my brother in law had one demanding £500 then another saying they would accept £300 then a phone call saying it could be all over for £100. It was a lovely scam by the sounds of it from our Eastern friends.
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They are not a scam if they are from the legal firms acting for the copyright holders. You all need to read up on the UK digital Economy Act if you even think you can get away worth downloading copyrighted material now.
They don't need to prove who in the household downloaded it, as the person who's network connection was used gets the fines/summons.
Way it works is you may get a warning letter, but preferred method is to ask for every office to be paid for £300 to £500 per download otherwise it's off to the courts.
There's is a lot of activity on this front at the moment..
They don't need to prove who in the household downloaded it, as the person who's network connection was used gets the fines/summons.
Way it works is you may get a warning letter, but preferred method is to ask for every office to be paid for £300 to £500 per download otherwise it's off to the courts.
There's is a lot of activity on this front at the moment..
Last edited by what would scooby do; 22 October 2010 at 04:04 PM.
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#17
A simple defence, the IP was spoofed. That is enough to cast reasonable doubt. There are of course many other ways a persons IP address can end up in a swarm list, IP injection for instance.
#18
Read Section 16(2) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents act.
Edit: here you go..
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988...80048_en_1.htm
Last edited by Dedrater; 22 October 2010 at 04:19 PM.
#19
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i totally agree that it is a scam
but I think a point worth making is that you have to reply to the legal letter
if only to tell them to take a running jump
you should not just bin it (unfortunatly)
but I think a point worth making is that you have to reply to the legal letter
if only to tell them to take a running jump
you should not just bin it (unfortunatly)
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You can interpret it how you want - I've seen the legal notices go out to subscribers they are basing it on the UK digital economy act and ofcom initial obligations code.
p.s. be very careful with what you say on the phone when they call you
p.s. be very careful with what you say on the phone when they call you
#21
I am well aware of it, it is still a scam, a legal grey area at best.
I am well versed in UK Law, especially Internet and Computer Case Law. You are right that that the person paying the ISP could receive a summons, you are massively wrong that a magistrate could make a judgement based on an IP address and as such nobody in this country ever has.
A simple defence, the IP was spoofed. That is enough to cast reasonable doubt. There are of course many other ways a persons IP address can end up in a swarm list, IP injection for instance.
I am well versed in UK Law, especially Internet and Computer Case Law. You are right that that the person paying the ISP could receive a summons, you are massively wrong that a magistrate could make a judgement based on an IP address and as such nobody in this country ever has.
A simple defence, the IP was spoofed. That is enough to cast reasonable doubt. There are of course many other ways a persons IP address can end up in a swarm list, IP injection for instance.
#22
In my view a scam is akin to the letters that the Nigerian's send, or someone in a high street offer you a load of Rolex's.
In this sense these letters are not a scam. There is a technical basis for the reason they are sending the letters. Now the difficultly comes in how strong that technical reasoning is, for example downloading of someone else's wifi (which is when the mother-in-law gets told she downloaded the latest thrash metal album, or when multiple people have access to a PC or as mentioned spoofing IP addresses).
So these are not a scam. Could they hold up to scrutiny in court? Maybe, maybe not, but the point is that while this area of law is being felt out I think you'd be foolish to simply dismiss it and throw away the letter.
In this sense these letters are not a scam. There is a technical basis for the reason they are sending the letters. Now the difficultly comes in how strong that technical reasoning is, for example downloading of someone else's wifi (which is when the mother-in-law gets told she downloaded the latest thrash metal album, or when multiple people have access to a PC or as mentioned spoofing IP addresses).
So these are not a scam. Could they hold up to scrutiny in court? Maybe, maybe not, but the point is that while this area of law is being felt out I think you'd be foolish to simply dismiss it and throw away the letter.
#23
Some foolish people claiming its a scam, its not.
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
Originally Posted by Dictionary
Scam :
–noun, a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.
–verb (used with object), to cheat or defraud with a scam.
–noun, a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.
–verb (used with object), to cheat or defraud with a scam.
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
#25
I would agree in every other case. But when it comes to these threatogram letters of claim, I wouldn't waste my time giving a reply, it is so flawed, that not complying with the Civil Procedure Rules wouldn't make one bit of difference should a court give directions for the management of proceedings.
#26
Some foolish people claiming its a scam, its not.
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
Great minds etc etc
#27
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Some foolish people claiming its a scam, its not.
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
Do they have the ***** to take you to court in another matter entirely, but its not a scam, see below.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010...usic-downloads
With regards to using the "somebody spoofed my IP" excuse - their tools are more sophisticated and nefarious than people give them credit for..
things like Peer Media technologies or the older mediasentry IIRC
#28
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#29
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I would agree in every other case. But when it comes to these threatogram letters of claim, I wouldn't waste my time giving a reply, it is so flawed, that not complying with the Civil Procedure Rules wouldn't make one bit of difference should a court give directions for the management of proceedings.
thanks
and okay -- you win, you are obviously "in the trade" so to speak - i will bow to your knowledge -- but not every has that
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 October 2010 at 04:50 PM.
#30
They really are not. I can spoof an IP address in minutes, I can can one further and clone a MAC address, that would at least pin point a machine, there tools are no more sophisticated than Utorrent's Peer tracker.