scud8

iTrader: (1)

Am I just being naive, or is anyone else surprised that it is routine to carry cargo on passenger flights? I had thought that since international regulations prevented checked baggage being carried unaccompanied on a flight, the same rules would apply to cargo - but it appears not.

It doesn't even sound like the cargo is screened in the same way checked baggage is. BA have come out and said that they screen all cargo carried on their flights, but since it took the police two goes to find the bomb when they had been told it was there, I don't take much comfort from this.

Tidgy

its normal, most airliners carry some cargo of some sort as far as i understand

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Hard to see what the additional risk is, when the threat is from suicide bombers anyway...

Tidgy

found it interesting that in 20 years, there has never been a terrorist attck of any sort with the flight origionating in the UK.

me thinks an over-reaction may have been happening

Norman D. Landings

Even the dumbest suicide bomber must now realise that if he puts his vest in a box and sends it as cargo then he'll be alive to bomb another day. I think thats the point.

Personally these developments are worrying the **** out of me, I'm flying next weekend

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

If they didnt use spare capacity for cargo, your good would arrive a lot slower from around the world and your airline ticket would be a lot more expensive.

Funkii Munkii

All airlines carry cargo, especially on Pax flights, all part of the revenue.

All Cargo is x-rayed at time of lodgement by the handlling agent, unless it come from a "known" shipper. It is not that easy to get known status and keep it, Dft are always looking to find holes in your security once you get known status and rightly so.

Most countries will expect cargo handling companies to have a certain percentage of staff trained in security handling.

What doesn't surprise me is they are targeting integrators such as UPS, I have always thought here is an easy way to get past security, you can add DHL, Fedex and TNT to that list.

A lot of specialist freight companies wont accept work from new customers without them first being security screened, wont accept cash or credit cards. Cargo security has always been a nightmare and remains so.

I'm just waiting to see what restrictions they apply to our industry, Virgin have made a half hearted effort this weekend demanding full manifests, big deal you can write what you want on there that wont change a thing.

It is a worry though that someone has found an explosive that does not show up very well on an x-ray machine and it is also worth bearing in mind it would not have been found on a hand search either.

I can see it now all cargo will have to go through compression tests before being allowed anywhere near the shed, invest in decompression chambers (big ones)

hodgy0_2

the "elephant" in the room is that most people who work in the aviation business realise that all the precautions/security checks are so full of holes it is scarey (so best not to say anything at all)

and unchecked freight on passenger flights is just one such hole

Funkii Munkii

Personally I cant see how unchecked freight can exist in this day and age, but as they have said if the organic material is not showing on an x-ray we really are in scarey times.

That said I cant see security screening at Sanaa being the same as LHR or JFK, that said I always thought security was really lax in SYD, not even close to what we have to go through over here, I just put it down to the fact Aus has never really been targeted.

Just received a 6 page fax from the Dft, some nice afternoon reading

SQ just issued this, unsurprising


Re: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL EMBARGO OF ALL CARGO TO AND FROM YEMEN AND ALL CARGO OF YEMEN ORIGIN

As a result of recent events and directed security measures, SIA and SIA Cargo impose a total embargo of carriage/transportation of all cargo on our flights to and from Yemen and all cargo of Yemen origin. This will be implemented with immediate effect.

The embargo covers:
(i) no cargo of Yemen origin is allowed even though the cargo may be uplifted from a non Yemen station.
(ii) no cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is allowed to be interlined to SIA and SIA Cargo.
(iii) Cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is not allowed to be consolidated and shipped on SIA and SIA Cargo flights as consolidated cargo.

Please treat this with utmost urgency.

Thank you for your cooperation and your help in contributing to aviation safety.

Regards

Singapore Airlines Cargo

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Here we go again, more restrictions on the aviation industry, as one who travels fairly frequently by air I have seen it go from being a fairly painless option to a pain in the ****, huge queues, bags of toothpaste, laptops having to be removed pat downs, scanners and an unhealthy interest in your footwear. Case in point being a 45 minute queue a Boston Logan the other day to get to the security screening, really cut into my drinking time, which is required when travelling economy as sober it is just not funny, I mean what sadistic ******* brings two babies onto a plane, that in my book is in itself an act of terrorism....

So, Cargo is going to get a knee jerk reaction now.

It does make me wonder though, how many planes would explode every day worldwide without any security screening, would any make their destination, would the Islamic terrorists get bored, would Basque separatists or the IRA get in on the act ?

All this paranoia and measures, given their fixation with blowing up planes I am surprised they havent tried "other methods", I say other methods as I am reluctant to make suggestions.

Based on keywords, I suspect this thread could end up being viewed by MI5, so Hi, we arent radical terrorists, just talking about the issues, no need for Swat teams or Orange jump suits, or any of that stuff, kthxbai !

Jaybird-UK

What do you think the bottom half of the plane is for? Theres a 160 m3 of empty space waiting for freight

scud8

iTrader: (1)

Why don't they just pack some more passengers in - I'm surprised Michael O'Leary hasn't already suggested it.

I guess I was surprised because I'm old enough to remember Lockerbie and the subsequent tightening of regulations. Up to that point it was easy to check a bag then not board the flight, and there was no requirement on the airline to offload your bag. After Lockerbie bags of no-shows must be off-loaded no matter how big a delay it causes. What is the point of doing that if there is a load of unscanned cargo on the plane anyway?

Funkii Munkii

The majority is scanned scud8, see post 7, would be bombers do not become known shippers, I would be interested to see if on this ocassion they were known or unknown, i'd put my house on them being unknown and as they have already implied this freight was scanned suggesting it was unknown.

what would scooby do

People are just self loading cargo..

Jaybird-UK

We have our own x-ray machine when building LD7s

urban

iTrader: (1)

Its not so much cargo that bothers me, it's the fact that some islamic weirdo can hide a load of explosive material up his **** and then detonate on board

Imagine the fear you'd feel as he stands up shouting "God is greatest" while getting ready to go boom.

Leslie

We carry mixed cargo and pax as normal in the RAF, but it would be a bit more difficult to plant anything nasty on those aircraft anyway.

Les

billythekid

Years ago (1988?) I was on a flight to the US and as we got off the ground crew were extracting a brand new Lotus Esprit out of the cargo hold.

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

I remember the last one that did that, just burnt himself, the Shoe Bomber didnt managed to explode and the Glasgow airport combers were kind of Dads Army in capability, thankfully
so far, apart from a couple of exceptions these idiots major on religous extremism and being ready to die, not electronics and explosives but I suspect, sadly that they are learning, or failing that, any muppet armed with a shoulder mounted Surface to Air thingy could probably do the job.

urban

iTrader: (1)

I know, but........................

He managed to get it all through security and onto the plane

boomer

And he did it without a passport, flying halfway around the world with hand luggage only and paid for his tickets in cash and to top it all he was going to the most paranoid nation with regards to "aliens"!!

That is an incredible failure in not just security but basic admin "rules" - no need for perv scanners or semtex sniffers or belt inspectors to catch that one

mb

Little Miss WRX

And expect more from more carriers FM!

I am IATA registered and the security procedures I used to do with my old company were extremely strict and any new customers went through a huge checklist including a hand inspection of the freight prior to it being sent for x-ray examination.
Having said that, I made a mistake on a DG shipment that went through, I only realised after it had been loaded and flown! That was via BA as well. Just goes to show what's being checked! Fortunately it was only a documentation error, but who knows what it could have been!
I've known misdeclared freight (not through any shipments I have handled or a company I have worked for have handled knowingly) to go through with no checks on airlines.....

Funkii Munkii

So you must be a fellow RACA, did you do yours on line ? 8 hours of pleasure, not !! I thought I'd be clever and wrote about 20 pages of notes only to find out come the on line exam that if you got the question wrong it would send you back to that section to find the answer

Since returning home I had to sit the Dft's Level G Security Manager course, just as mundane but some nice video's, especially those suicide bombers with IED's, all that's left in most cases is the head, it pops off like a cork !!

Myles

iTrader: (40)

Imagine the feeling of euphoria when he keeps pressing a button to no avail, then the baying crowd descend on him.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

I still don't understand why they don't allow liquids of more than 100ml onboard a plane. Do the government not know what 100ml bottle of Nitro Glycerine will do to a pressurised airliner? The stuff looks like water and provided it is in one of the approved 100ml bottles and plastic bags how is anyone gona know what it is?

scarey

had a delivery from DHL earlier today. Has a big red sticker on it saying "unknown customer, item has not been x-Rayed"

it was sent from Portsmouth to Reading. How many airplanes does that involve?

Snazy

Interesting ripples going through our operation too right now.

We received the following a while back...

Like Funki says "known" is a hard status to achieve indeed.
We X-ray all our packages at various stages of transportation.

The whole cargo on passenger planes, very much the case, always has been. But also interesting to know that most large carriers, Fedex, UPS etc actually have one of the largest fleets of planes in the world, so tend to carry a majority themselves.

Jamie

Reminds me of this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4hPnZUMBwA

FlightMan

173.

j4ckos mate

im not listed so all of mine gets xrayed, or rasco'ed