Cargo on passenger flights
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Am I just being naive, or is anyone else surprised that it is routine to carry cargo on passenger flights? I had thought that since international regulations prevented checked baggage being carried unaccompanied on a flight, the same rules would apply to cargo - but it appears not.
It doesn't even sound like the cargo is screened in the same way checked baggage is. BA have come out and said that they screen all cargo carried on their flights, but since it took the police two goes to find the bomb when they had been told it was there, I don't take much comfort from this.
It doesn't even sound like the cargo is screened in the same way checked baggage is. BA have come out and said that they screen all cargo carried on their flights, but since it took the police two goes to find the bomb when they had been told it was there, I don't take much comfort from this.
#4
Scooby Regular
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
found it interesting that in 20 years, there has never been a terrorist attck of any sort with the flight origionating in the UK.
me thinks an over-reaction may have been happening
me thinks an over-reaction may have been happening
#5
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Personally these developments are worrying the **** out of me, I'm flying next weekend
![Frown](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
#7
Pontificating
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
All airlines carry cargo, especially on Pax flights, all part of the revenue.
All Cargo is x-rayed at time of lodgement by the handlling agent, unless it come from a "known" shipper. It is not that easy to get known status and keep it, Dft are always looking to find holes in your security once you get known status and rightly so.
Most countries will expect cargo handling companies to have a certain percentage of staff trained in security handling.
What doesn't surprise me is they are targeting integrators such as UPS, I have always thought here is an easy way to get past security, you can add DHL, Fedex and TNT to that list.
A lot of specialist freight companies wont accept work from new customers without them first being security screened, wont accept cash or credit cards. Cargo security has always been a nightmare and remains so.
I'm just waiting to see what restrictions they apply to our industry, Virgin have made a half hearted effort this weekend demanding full manifests, big deal you can write what you want on there that wont change a thing.
It is a worry though that someone has found an explosive that does not show up very well on an x-ray machine and it is also worth bearing in mind it would not have been found on a hand search either.
I can see it now all cargo will have to go through compression tests before being allowed anywhere near the shed, invest in decompression chambers (big ones)
All Cargo is x-rayed at time of lodgement by the handlling agent, unless it come from a "known" shipper. It is not that easy to get known status and keep it, Dft are always looking to find holes in your security once you get known status and rightly so.
Most countries will expect cargo handling companies to have a certain percentage of staff trained in security handling.
What doesn't surprise me is they are targeting integrators such as UPS, I have always thought here is an easy way to get past security, you can add DHL, Fedex and TNT to that list.
A lot of specialist freight companies wont accept work from new customers without them first being security screened, wont accept cash or credit cards. Cargo security has always been a nightmare and remains so.
I'm just waiting to see what restrictions they apply to our industry, Virgin have made a half hearted effort this weekend demanding full manifests, big deal you can write what you want on there that wont change a thing.
It is a worry though that someone has found an explosive that does not show up very well on an x-ray machine and it is also worth bearing in mind it would not have been found on a hand search either.
I can see it now all cargo will have to go through compression tests before being allowed anywhere near the shed, invest in decompression chambers (big ones)
Trending Topics
#8
Scooby Regular
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
the "elephant" in the room is that most people who work in the aviation business realise that all the precautions/security checks are so full of holes it is scarey (so best not to say anything at all)
and unchecked freight on passenger flights is just one such hole
and unchecked freight on passenger flights is just one such hole
#9
Pontificating
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Personally I cant see how unchecked freight can exist in this day and age, but as they have said if the organic material is not showing on an x-ray we really are in scarey times.
That said I cant see security screening at Sanaa being the same as LHR or JFK, that said I always thought security was really lax in SYD, not even close to what we have to go through over here, I just put it down to the fact Aus has never really been targeted.
Just received a 6 page fax from the Dft, some nice afternoon reading![Frown](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
SQ just issued this, unsurprising
Re: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL EMBARGO OF ALL CARGO TO AND FROM YEMEN AND ALL CARGO OF YEMEN ORIGIN
As a result of recent events and directed security measures, SIA and SIA Cargo impose a total embargo of carriage/transportation of all cargo on our flights to and from Yemen and all cargo of Yemen origin. This will be implemented with immediate effect.
The embargo covers:
(i) no cargo of Yemen origin is allowed even though the cargo may be uplifted from a non Yemen station.
(ii) no cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is allowed to be interlined to SIA and SIA Cargo.
(iii) Cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is not allowed to be consolidated and shipped on SIA and SIA Cargo flights as consolidated cargo.
Please treat this with utmost urgency.
Thank you for your cooperation and your help in contributing to aviation safety.
Regards
Singapore Airlines Cargo
That said I cant see security screening at Sanaa being the same as LHR or JFK, that said I always thought security was really lax in SYD, not even close to what we have to go through over here, I just put it down to the fact Aus has never really been targeted.
Just received a 6 page fax from the Dft, some nice afternoon reading
![Frown](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
SQ just issued this, unsurprising
Re: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL EMBARGO OF ALL CARGO TO AND FROM YEMEN AND ALL CARGO OF YEMEN ORIGIN
As a result of recent events and directed security measures, SIA and SIA Cargo impose a total embargo of carriage/transportation of all cargo on our flights to and from Yemen and all cargo of Yemen origin. This will be implemented with immediate effect.
The embargo covers:
(i) no cargo of Yemen origin is allowed even though the cargo may be uplifted from a non Yemen station.
(ii) no cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is allowed to be interlined to SIA and SIA Cargo.
(iii) Cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is not allowed to be consolidated and shipped on SIA and SIA Cargo flights as consolidated cargo.
Please treat this with utmost urgency.
Thank you for your cooperation and your help in contributing to aviation safety.
Regards
Singapore Airlines Cargo
#10
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Here we go again, more restrictions on the aviation industry, as one who travels fairly frequently by air I have seen it go from being a fairly painless option to a pain in the ****, huge queues, bags of toothpaste, laptops having to be removed pat downs, scanners and an unhealthy interest in your footwear. Case in point being a 45 minute queue a Boston Logan the other day to get to the security screening, really cut into my drinking time, which is required when travelling economy as sober it is just not funny, I mean what sadistic ******* brings two babies onto a plane, that in my book is in itself an act of terrorism....
So, Cargo is going to get a knee jerk reaction now.
It does make me wonder though, how many planes would explode every day worldwide without any security screening, would any make their destination, would the Islamic terrorists get bored, would Basque separatists or the IRA get in on the act ?
All this paranoia and measures, given their fixation with blowing up planes I am surprised they havent tried "other methods", I say other methods as I am reluctant to make suggestions.
Based on keywords, I suspect this thread could end up being viewed by MI5, so Hi, we arent radical terrorists, just talking about the issues, no need for Swat teams or Orange jump suits, or any of that stuff, kthxbai !
So, Cargo is going to get a knee jerk reaction now.
It does make me wonder though, how many planes would explode every day worldwide without any security screening, would any make their destination, would the Islamic terrorists get bored, would Basque separatists or the IRA get in on the act ?
All this paranoia and measures, given their fixation with blowing up planes I am surprised they havent tried "other methods", I say other methods as I am reluctant to make suggestions.
Based on keywords, I suspect this thread could end up being viewed by MI5, so Hi, we arent radical terrorists, just talking about the issues, no need for Swat teams or Orange jump suits, or any of that stuff, kthxbai !
#11
#12
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 1,204
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I guess I was surprised because I'm old enough to remember Lockerbie and the subsequent tightening of regulations. Up to that point it was easy to check a bag then not board the flight, and there was no requirement on the airline to offload your bag. After Lockerbie bags of no-shows must be off-loaded no matter how big a delay it causes. What is the point of doing that if there is a load of unscanned cargo on the plane anyway?
#13
Pontificating
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
The majority is scanned scud8, see post 7, would be bombers do not become known shippers, I would be interested to see if on this ocassion they were known or unknown, i'd put my house on them being unknown and as they have already implied this freight was scanned suggesting it was unknown.
#19
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
so far, apart from a couple of exceptions these idiots major on religous extremism and being ready to die, not electronics and explosives but I suspect, sadly that they are learning, or failing that, any muppet armed with a shoulder mounted Surface to Air thingy could probably do the job.
#21
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: West Midlands
Posts: 5,763
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
That is an incredible failure in not just security but basic admin "rules" - no need for perv scanners or semtex sniffers or belt inspectors to catch that one
![Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)
mb
#22
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Personally I cant see how unchecked freight can exist in this day and age, but as they have said if the organic material is not showing on an x-ray we really are in scarey times.
That said I cant see security screening at Sanaa being the same as LHR or JFK, that said I always thought security was really lax in SYD, not even close to what we have to go through over here, I just put it down to the fact Aus has never really been targeted.
Just received a 6 page fax from the Dft, some nice afternoon reading![Frown](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
SQ just issued this, unsurprising
Re: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL EMBARGO OF ALL CARGO TO AND FROM YEMEN AND ALL CARGO OF YEMEN ORIGIN
As a result of recent events and directed security measures, SIA and SIA Cargo impose a total embargo of carriage/transportation of all cargo on our flights to and from Yemen and all cargo of Yemen origin. This will be implemented with immediate effect.
The embargo covers:
(i) no cargo of Yemen origin is allowed even though the cargo may be uplifted from a non Yemen station.
(ii) no cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is allowed to be interlined to SIA and SIA Cargo.
(iii) Cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is not allowed to be consolidated and shipped on SIA and SIA Cargo flights as consolidated cargo.
Please treat this with utmost urgency.
Thank you for your cooperation and your help in contributing to aviation safety.
Regards
Singapore Airlines Cargo
That said I cant see security screening at Sanaa being the same as LHR or JFK, that said I always thought security was really lax in SYD, not even close to what we have to go through over here, I just put it down to the fact Aus has never really been targeted.
Just received a 6 page fax from the Dft, some nice afternoon reading
![Frown](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/frown.gif)
SQ just issued this, unsurprising
Re: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL EMBARGO OF ALL CARGO TO AND FROM YEMEN AND ALL CARGO OF YEMEN ORIGIN
As a result of recent events and directed security measures, SIA and SIA Cargo impose a total embargo of carriage/transportation of all cargo on our flights to and from Yemen and all cargo of Yemen origin. This will be implemented with immediate effect.
The embargo covers:
(i) no cargo of Yemen origin is allowed even though the cargo may be uplifted from a non Yemen station.
(ii) no cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is allowed to be interlined to SIA and SIA Cargo.
(iii) Cargo from Yemen or of Yemen origin is not allowed to be consolidated and shipped on SIA and SIA Cargo flights as consolidated cargo.
Please treat this with utmost urgency.
Thank you for your cooperation and your help in contributing to aviation safety.
Regards
Singapore Airlines Cargo
I am IATA registered and the security procedures I used to do with my old company were extremely strict and any new customers went through a huge checklist including a hand inspection of the freight prior to it being sent for x-ray examination.
Having said that, I made a mistake on a DG shipment that went through, I only realised after it had been loaded and flown! That was via BA as well.
![Wink](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/smilies/wink.gif)
I've known misdeclared freight (not through any shipments I have handled or a company I have worked for have handled knowingly) to go through with no checks on airlines.....
#23
Pontificating
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
So you must be a fellow RACA, did you do yours on line ? 8 hours of pleasure, not !! I thought I'd be clever and wrote about 20 pages of notes only to find out come the on line exam that if you got the question wrong it would send you back to that section to find the answer
Since returning home I had to sit the Dft's Level G Security Manager course, just as mundane but some nice video's, especially those suicide bombers with IED's, all that's left in most cases is the head, it pops off like a cork !!
Since returning home I had to sit the Dft's Level G Security Manager course, just as mundane but some nice video's, especially those suicide bombers with IED's, all that's left in most cases is the head, it pops off like a cork !!
#25
Scooby Senior
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wildberg, Germany/Reading, UK
Posts: 9,707
Likes: 0
Received 73 Likes
on
54 Posts
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
I still don't understand why they don't allow liquids of more than 100ml onboard a plane. Do the government not know what 100ml bottle of Nitro Glycerine will do to a pressurised airliner? The stuff looks like water and provided it is in one of the approved 100ml bottles and plastic bags how is anyone gona know what it is?
#26
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
had a delivery from DHL earlier today. Has a big red sticker on it saying "unknown customer, item has not been x-Rayed"
it was sent from Portsmouth to Reading. How many airplanes does that involve?
it was sent from Portsmouth to Reading. How many airplanes does that involve?
#27
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: S.E London
Posts: 13,654
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
![Default](https://www.scoobynet.com/images/icons/icon1.gif)
Interesting ripples going through our operation too right now.
We received the following a while back...
Like Funki says "known" is a hard status to achieve indeed.
We X-ray all our packages at various stages of transportation.
The whole cargo on passenger planes, very much the case, always has been. But also interesting to know that most large carriers, Fedex, UPS etc actually have one of the largest fleets of planes in the world, so tend to carry a majority themselves.
We received the following a while back...
“You shall not permit into security restricted areas or on board an aircraft, any ink or toner cartridge as either cabin baggage, or air carrier mail or cargo, except where such items is part of a consignment to which a known consignor has applied the required security controls, and that the consignment has been protected from unlawful interference from time the security controls were applied and loading.”. These measures will be in place for one month and thereafter fully reviewed.
In addition, effective from 2nd November, 2010, until further notice, you are required not to carry by air, to or from the UK (including domestic flights), consignments of cargo, courier material or mail, which are more than 6 millimetres or 250 grams in total weight, where you know or believe the materials to have originated in Yemen, or Somalia, or to have passed through a point in Yemen or Somalia.
Ink and Toner cartridges are defined in the Direction as a cartridge weighing more than 500 grams designed for use in printing equipment, such as printers, photocopiers and fax machines
In addition, effective from 2nd November, 2010, until further notice, you are required not to carry by air, to or from the UK (including domestic flights), consignments of cargo, courier material or mail, which are more than 6 millimetres or 250 grams in total weight, where you know or believe the materials to have originated in Yemen, or Somalia, or to have passed through a point in Yemen or Somalia.
Ink and Toner cartridges are defined in the Direction as a cartridge weighing more than 500 grams designed for use in printing equipment, such as printers, photocopiers and fax machines
We X-ray all our packages at various stages of transportation.
The whole cargo on passenger planes, very much the case, always has been. But also interesting to know that most large carriers, Fedex, UPS etc actually have one of the largest fleets of planes in the world, so tend to carry a majority themselves.
#28
Super Muppet
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Inside out
Posts: 33,364
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Runway two seven right.
Posts: 6,652
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts