Deja Vu (Libya)
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Deja Vu (Libya)
"Most European nations would only contemplate action if there was a clear UN resolution, although the UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said "there have been occasions in the past when such a no-fly zone has had clear, legal, international justification, even without a Security Council resolution".
Now when have I heard that before?
dl
Now when have I heard that before?
dl
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Yep we just don't learn do we? Why are we in the thick of it again while Germany, France etc. take a back seat. We are f**king broke as a country yet the government goons can't wait to commit our money (that we haven't got) and military to another unwinnable war. Marvellous!!!
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
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Yep we just don't learn do we? Why are we in the thick of it again while Germany, France etc. take a back seat. We are f**king broke as a country yet the government goons can't wait to commit our money (that we haven't got) and military to another unwinnable war. Marvellous!!!
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
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#9
#10
Do you use petrol/diesel or not, and are the goods you buy in the shops transported there with petrol/diesel?
#12
Would they be ok with intervention if it was stated as by the government as being to secure resources?
#13
I for one would certainly love to hear your erudite and dare I say it, balanced opinion on the matter.
It has always been of profound interest to me why other countries don't spin their foreign policies thus - especially those countries fortunate enough to be blessed with progressive left wing government.
Up the Peoples Jamahiriya!
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Gadaffi is right about one thing, this is Libya's issue and the West need to stay out of it!
#15
Killing foreigners and taking over countries for their wealth (in this case, oil) doesn't win votes with the home crowd no matter how you spin it.
#16
Gadaffi is playing his anti-collonial card, it's the same rhetoric which has worked for him in the past.
#17
I don't know. Is it right to stand by and watch innocent people be slaughtered by their own government? You can draw similarities with Iraq, Rwanda, Kosovo, Darfur... The list sadly goes on and on. In some cases there was UN intervention to a greater or lesser extent, in others there wasn't. Innocent people were still killed regardless, did the cases where there was intervention make it better or worse?
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Perhaps you can illuminate us all on this interesting question.
I for one would certainly love to hear your erudite and dare I say it, balanced opinion on the matter.
It has always been of profound interest to me why other countries don't spin their foreign policies thus - especially those countries fortunate enough to be blessed with progressive left wing government.
Up the Peoples Jamahiriya!
I for one would certainly love to hear your erudite and dare I say it, balanced opinion on the matter.
It has always been of profound interest to me why other countries don't spin their foreign policies thus - especially those countries fortunate enough to be blessed with progressive left wing government.
Up the Peoples Jamahiriya!
As for all this progressive left wing government crap what has that got to do with this discussion.?
#19
I don't know. Is it right to stand by and watch innocent people be slaughtered by their own government? You can draw similarities with Iraq, Rwanda, Kosovo, Darfur... The list sadly goes on and on. In some cases there was UN intervention to a greater or lesser extent, in others there wasn't. Innocent people were still killed regardless, did the cases where there was intervention make it better or worse?
...and with regards to the Balkans in the early 90's sure it helped.
#20
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Yep we just don't learn do we? Why are we in the thick of it again while Germany, France etc. take a back seat. We are f**king broke as a country yet the government goons can't wait to commit our money (that we haven't got) and military to another unwinnable war. Marvellous!!!
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
Other parts of Europe, and now the UK, have made it clear that defence is not a priority, yet the only reason we can take that attitude is because we know America will use its force to keep us all safe in the event that any western institutions come under attack. So taking a back seat is great when you've got that privilege.
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I don't know. Is it right to stand by and watch innocent people be slaughtered by their own government? You can draw similarities with Iraq, Rwanda, Kosovo, Darfur... The list sadly goes on and on. In some cases there was UN intervention to a greater or lesser extent, in others there wasn't. Innocent people were still killed regardless, did the cases where there was intervention make it better or worse?
My worry about Libya is once again we seem all too keen to go charging in with no real plan as to what to do once we are there. Iraq and Afghanistan it seems have taught us nothing.
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What gets me is that we're cutting back defense, getting rid of harriers etc, yet we're more than happy to go along with 'helping those wishing to remove Gaddafi', perhaps suggesting that America get involved, while it also has to shoulder the whole burden.
Other parts of Europe, and now the UK, have made it clear that defence is not a priority, yet the only reason we can take that attitude is because we know America will use its force to keep us all safe in the event that any western institutions come under attack. So taking a back seat is great when you've got that privilege.
Other parts of Europe, and now the UK, have made it clear that defence is not a priority, yet the only reason we can take that attitude is because we know America will use its force to keep us all safe in the event that any western institutions come under attack. So taking a back seat is great when you've got that privilege.
#23
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I think far too many people take what we've got for granted, and criticise the methods by which we've got it, without realising that they would hardly be able to even discuss these things if it hadn't been for them.
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As for USA's prime reason for foreign policy being to protect oil sources I think there is more to it than that. Yes of course oil plays a part but it's more about regional stability. And, to be fair to the Americans, I think there is a genuine wish to try and bring about just societies although they don't seem to be very good at it IIRC Vietnam wasn't about oil or their involvement in WW2 (and Afghanistan??).
But they leave themselves with some hard circles to square like their support for Israel trashing the Palestinians because of the strong USA Jewish lobby. I happen to be an Obama supporter but he seems pretty unpopular back home but I think that is because I don't fully understand the American psyche (even though I have lived in the damn place!).
dl
#25
To be fair, since at least 3/4 of the price of fuel is tax, is it not a little disingenuous to blame the price we pay at the pump on the price of crude oil?
#26
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Its a shame that none of the Islamic nations can be trusted to go in and take a peace keeping role.
The extremist types complain about Western countries coming in to stop violence (and they do it by... er ... being violent) but unfortunately, no one else can actually do it!
Need to just roll over the whole place I reckon.
5t.
The extremist types complain about Western countries coming in to stop violence (and they do it by... er ... being violent) but unfortunately, no one else can actually do it!
Need to just roll over the whole place I reckon.
5t.
#28
"Most European nations would only contemplate action if there was a clear UN resolution, although the UK Foreign Secretary William Hague said "there have been occasions in the past when such a no-fly zone has had clear, legal, international justification, even without a Security Council resolution".
Now when have I heard that before?
dl
Now when have I heard that before?
dl
Amazing how these fellows can talk around anything when they feel it is necessary!
Les
#29
Yep we just don't learn do we? Why are we in the thick of it again while Germany, France etc. take a back seat. We are f**king broke as a country yet the government goons can't wait to commit our money (that we haven't got) and military to another unwinnable war. Marvellous!!!
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
What amuses me is the way America and its allies seem interested in Libya and of course Iraq and Iran yet places like Burna, Zimbabwe, North Korea get completely ignored. Wonder why?
Les
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Nope, the ME predominantly has tyrants at the helm of their countries and if not largely capitalist governments. The UK hasn't had a left wing government since the 70s, the US is inherently rght wing, non of the major European countires are left wing controlled..... so what's the relevance?