Global reaction
#1
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Global reaction
I think perhaps the reality is (and I really do want blood) that after Egypt, Libya, Syria and so on, our condemnation of governments using violence against their people and the fact that we're at war on the back of UNSCR 1973, we can't be seen by our enemies and the rest of the world as hypocrites. I understand our situation is different, but I'm guessing there's a much bigger picture in play.
Absolutely. I'm finding it incredibly frustrating that observers from around the world are viewing this as some kind of uprising. Uprising?!
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...einobia&st=cse
As I mentioned in the other thread, we need to tread very carefully in terms of our response to these criminals, not because they're deserving of lenience, but because the eyes of the world are upon us. Hostile regimes around the planet will spin and spin this. Iran and others are already describing the riots as "demonstrations"; our Government have to keep half an eye on events overseas and need to make sure it can maintain the moral high-ground and credibilty when calling for "restraint" in NA, the Med and the ME. Democracy's at stake.
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...einobia&st=cse
As I mentioned in the other thread, we need to tread very carefully in terms of our response to these criminals, not because they're deserving of lenience, but because the eyes of the world are upon us. Hostile regimes around the planet will spin and spin this. Iran and others are already describing the riots as "demonstrations"; our Government have to keep half an eye on events overseas and need to make sure it can maintain the moral high-ground and credibilty when calling for "restraint" in NA, the Med and the ME. Democracy's at stake.
Pakistan, Iran, China and obviously Libya getting plenty of mileage out of this. Whether you like it or not, we need to consider how we're perceived by the rest of the World.
Thoughts?
#3
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Others, such as the highly censored Iranian media, have drawn the opposite conclusion.
Iranian press say the UK has been too tough on the rioters, who it portrays as citizens protesting against poor living conditions and police mistreatment.
The Iranian government, usually at the receiving end of criticism for its treatment of demonstrators, was quick to condemn what it said was police brutality against innocent individuals.
Iranian press say the UK has been too tough on the rioters, who it portrays as citizens protesting against poor living conditions and police mistreatment.
The Iranian government, usually at the receiving end of criticism for its treatment of demonstrators, was quick to condemn what it said was police brutality against innocent individuals.
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purleeease!!!! take the amazonian rainforest out of your eye before you remove the mote from mine. Iran has a catalog of human rights violations that make the uk look like a butlins holiday camp. iran are in no position to judge the uk when it comes to police bully boy tactics
Last edited by bigsinky; 10 August 2011 at 08:18 PM.
#5
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Every country you listed there bears witness to appalling oppression and criminal aggression against its citizens by the government. It's laughable to suggest we should be bothered about some misinformed opinions expressed by people within them! How about we just surrender all rights in the name of politics and waving the flag for democracy. "Yes, things are just going swimmingly here, personally I'm happy to be looted by people who must surely be on a heroic political crusade against social inequality".
#6
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purleeease!!!! take the amazonian rainforest out of your eye before you remove the mote from mine. Iran has a catalog of human rights violations that make the uk look like a butlins holiday camp. iran are in no position to judge the uk when it comes to police bully boy tactics
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#9
I think JTaylor is right to point this out as it is vitally important how the UK is perceived on the world stage. Britain and is supposed to be the bastion of civility, democracy, opportunity, freedom and stability. With our current foreign policy of "promoting" these ideals and then all of a sudden having exposed our own serious underlying social issues, the UK risks as being cast as hypocrites that could potentially result in other countries loosing confidence in the UK and what it stands for and diminish our standing on the world stage. To the world this country is the United Kindom of Great Britain.
Had we drafted in the military, this would have undermined the Police and shown to the world that we had lost control of social order. It does not surprise me that Libya, Iran etc hold the views that they do since they themselves went through a period of mass social unrest who where subject to more far reaching consequences.
Had we drafted in the military, this would have undermined the Police and shown to the world that we had lost control of social order. It does not surprise me that Libya, Iran etc hold the views that they do since they themselves went through a period of mass social unrest who where subject to more far reaching consequences.
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I think JTaylor is right to point this out as it is vitally important how the UK is perceived on the world stage. Britain and is supposed to be the bastion of civility, democracy, opportunity, freedom and stability. With our current foreign policy of "promoting" these ideals and then all of a sudden having exposed our own serious underlying social issues, the UK risks as being cast as hypocrites that could potentially result in other countries loosing confidence in the UK and what it stands for and diminish our standing on the world stage. To the world this country is the United Kindom of Great Britain.
Had we drafted in the military, this would have undermined the Police and shown to the world that we had lost control of social order. It does not surprise me that Libya, Iran etc hold the views that they do since they themselves went through a period of mass social unrest who where subject to more far reaching consequences.
Had we drafted in the military, this would have undermined the Police and shown to the world that we had lost control of social order. It does not surprise me that Libya, Iran etc hold the views that they do since they themselves went through a period of mass social unrest who where subject to more far reaching consequences.
As above. Not sure how positive the world view of us is outside the West, but we need to take some account of it (no prob's with water cannon though!)
#13
Speaking with my clients in Texas earlier this week they were wishing us all the best, hoping that we were all safe and understanding why I had to send my team in London home early this week so they didn't get caught up.
They offered us Mr. T. But I hung in there for Chuck Norris
#14
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14471921
Pakistan, Iran, China and obviously Libya getting plenty of mileage out of this. Whether you like it or not, we need to consider how we're perceived by the rest of the World.
Thoughts?
Pakistan, Iran, China and obviously Libya getting plenty of mileage out of this. Whether you like it or not, we need to consider how we're perceived by the rest of the World.
Thoughts?
Dave
#15
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14471921
Pakistan, Iran, China and obviously Libya getting plenty of mileage out of this. Whether you like it or not, we need to consider how we're perceived by the rest of the World.
Thoughts?
Pakistan, Iran, China and obviously Libya getting plenty of mileage out of this. Whether you like it or not, we need to consider how we're perceived by the rest of the World.
Thoughts?
Well, Seeing as Iran said the UK should let the rioters protest and the police show restraint then I think that's fair. And then likewise, if the UK has shown restraint we should also show that we can mete out punishment in the same way that Iran does. A few beheadings, a few stonings and lets see some hands cut off.
Christ you really do ask some stupid questions at times Mr. Taylor.
#16
I have had a few calls from India, China and West Africa, asking, if I were safe. I have told them many times that I don't live in London etc. any more, and Wales is another planet, but they just don't get it. Anyhow, they didn't offer their perception of the UK to me. The ones in India always seem to see good in everything e.g. to their belief, people drink a lot of alcohol in Britain because they have to, to keep themselves warm in freezing cold climate. Yeah, right. I wonder if they think that it will be holy to forgive those looter kids, because all kids are ultimately holy. Other than that, other world is well-aware of the fact that things aren't as civil as they are believed to be in this land; by the dwellers of this part of the world. Other world is not mind-blind.
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I think you must be trolling. What exactly are we supposed to do? Just sit here as citizens and allow the poor victims of social inequality to loot us? F*ck that, and f*ck how we appear to the rest of the world.
Every country you listed there bears witness to appalling oppression and criminal aggression against its citizens by the government. It's laughable to suggest we should be bothered about some misinformed opinions expressed by people within them! How about we just surrender all rights in the name of politics and waving the flag for democracy. "Yes, things are just going swimmingly here, personally I'm happy to be looted by people who must surely be on a heroic political crusade against social inequality".
Every country you listed there bears witness to appalling oppression and criminal aggression against its citizens by the government. It's laughable to suggest we should be bothered about some misinformed opinions expressed by people within them! How about we just surrender all rights in the name of politics and waving the flag for democracy. "Yes, things are just going swimmingly here, personally I'm happy to be looted by people who must surely be on a heroic political crusade against social inequality".
See above.
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Don't want to drag this off topic, but this is an interesting point. Are all the rioters and looters Atheists? Because if they're not, how do their wonderful religions sit with their actions? Or is that terribly inconvenient? Is there a level of intelligence below which religion ceases to have any meaning at all?
#19
To hell with what other countries think or how they use the riots as an excuse to attack us.
The real point is that we need the authorities to deal with such insurrection and criminal behaviour in a positive manner which will indicate the futility of such behaviour and to protect the innocent from the vandalism and injury which these louts were inflicting upon them.
It is no good pussyfooting around-move in, with the military if necessary and sort them out properly.
Les
The real point is that we need the authorities to deal with such insurrection and criminal behaviour in a positive manner which will indicate the futility of such behaviour and to protect the innocent from the vandalism and injury which these louts were inflicting upon them.
It is no good pussyfooting around-move in, with the military if necessary and sort them out properly.
Les
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This about sums up what others think of us/the riots. But it also makes clear they see where the problems originate from i.e. the politicians!
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
#21
This about sums up what others think of us/the riots. But it also makes clear they see where the problems originate from i.e. the politicians!
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
Les
#22
To hell with what other countries think or how they use the riots as an excuse to attack us.
The real point is that we need the authorities to deal with such insurrection and criminal behaviour in a positive manner which will indicate the futility of such behaviour and to protect the innocent from the vandalism and injury which these louts were inflicting upon them.
It is no good pussyfooting around-move in, with the military if necessary and sort them out properly.
Les
The real point is that we need the authorities to deal with such insurrection and criminal behaviour in a positive manner which will indicate the futility of such behaviour and to protect the innocent from the vandalism and injury which these louts were inflicting upon them.
It is no good pussyfooting around-move in, with the military if necessary and sort them out properly.
Les
Though the way the riots may not have been dealt with in the most assertive manner, but using minimal force has at least meant the criticisms and comments from the likes of Iran, Libya, Syria etc, hold little water and only highlights their own hypocrisy. With the up and coming Olympics, the part-taking countries, even though their confidence may have been slightly dented, can still be assured that our Police are still able to restore and maintain order without military intervention.
Last edited by jonc; 11 August 2011 at 12:27 PM.
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This about sums up what others think of us/the riots. But it also makes clear they see where the problems originate from i.e. the politicians!
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
#24
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Shows how much you know mate.
Speaking with my clients in Texas earlier this week they were wishing us all the best, hoping that we were all safe and understanding why I had to send my team in London home early this week so they didn't get caught up.
They offered us Mr. T. But I hung in there for Chuck Norris
Speaking with my clients in Texas earlier this week they were wishing us all the best, hoping that we were all safe and understanding why I had to send my team in London home early this week so they didn't get caught up.
They offered us Mr. T. But I hung in there for Chuck Norris
Some of the people I talked had never met a British person before in their life. And at first didn't realise I was British only going as far as knowing that I wasn't American. Many honestly thought we all spoke like that Emily women off Friends (Helen Baxendale).
Not sure if you missed my subtle hint that everything in America has to be bigger/better/greater/taller etc.
#26
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This about sums up what others think of us/the riots. But it also makes clear they see where the problems originate from i.e. the politicians!
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
... http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226112640970 ...
Dave
#27
Don't want to drag this off topic, but this is an interesting point. Are all the rioters and looters Atheists? Because if they're not, how do their wonderful religions sit with their actions? Or is that terribly inconvenient? Is there a level of intelligence below which religion ceases to have any meaning at all?
No, all looters are not atheists. There are plenty of hypocrites born every day. All wonderful religions talk about "Thou shall not steal" and "Thou shall not hurt others". All wonderful religions have their own way of punishing atheist/theist looters. One religion may say "Forgiveness is the greatest thing of all, end of.", " What goes around comes around", "Let the perpetrator off, God will kick his backside one day", or, "Perpetrator will be re-born as some pathetic whinger creature in his/her next life, so no point getting your hands dirty" etc. Another religion might say, "Let's pull our sleeves up and stone the barstwards in here-and-now situation" or "Let's give them a chance for confession to the whiter-than-white priest, and all is forgotten" etc. etc. Of course, the universal religion (often disregarded but some recognise it as humanity)can cease to have any meaning at all below certain level of cognition, if not intelligence. This is when a so-called human with normal neurobiological functions and with the least/ no emotions causes another human a great deal of suffering. Atheist or a theist, such psychopath/s can be classified as the shamed owners of a low level intelligence. Actually, they are not necessarily dimwits. What they have is selective cognition and selective sensitivity to the phenomenon of others' suffering. When they are hurt, the well know that it f**king hurts like hell. Therefore, intelligence of any level as such is not in question, in relation to such pests. Psychopathy is their religion, masked under different religions, or under the veil of atheism, even.
#28
I have to disagree, had we brought in the army to quell the rioting, it would have sent out the wrong message to other countries. Can you even imagine how the world would react to resorting to the use of military force on young adults and children? Essentially kids (despite them being little fvkcers!!) being charged at, beaten and bloodied with armed soldiers and military vehicles patrolling the streets of the capital. The foreign press and leaders of both friendly and non-friendly countries would have a field day! I would think much of the world would react with disgust and would cause irreparable damage to the reputation of the UK. Whilst our Government have reacted far too slowly, they have at least let the focus of most of the attention fall on the wrong doings of the rioters and not the methods used to restore order.
Though the way the riots may not have been dealt with in the most assertive manner, but using minimal force has at least meant the criticisms and comments from the likes of Iran, Libya, Syria etc, hold little water and only highlights their own hypocrisy. With the up and coming Olympics, the part-taking countries, even though their confidence may have been slightly dented, can still be assured that our Police are still able to restore and maintain order without military intervention.
Though the way the riots may not have been dealt with in the most assertive manner, but using minimal force has at least meant the criticisms and comments from the likes of Iran, Libya, Syria etc, hold little water and only highlights their own hypocrisy. With the up and coming Olympics, the part-taking countries, even though their confidence may have been slightly dented, can still be assured that our Police are still able to restore and maintain order without military intervention.
In accordance with the first line of my earlier post, I think it is of no consequence what other countries think and we should not allow that to affect our actions, especially in respect of the rioting.
The main priority of course should be to stop the vandalism and injurious actions which were happening due to those out of control thugs who had their own agenda.
If the police are incapable of any significant form of control as they obviously were then it is essential that the military should be called in to do the job. It is far worse for the authorities to be seen to do nothing as the hoodlums were burning and looting while the coppers were standing and watching without any attempt to stop the law being broken and the public being left unprotected. If you are that worried about appearances-how impressive do you think that looked?
The important bit of course is how the army did the job, and they have had all the experience they need at controlling riotous situations in such a way that they don't alienate the "good guys". They are acknowledged to be very good at it.
Taking the situation by the scruff of it's neck and close control of those louts would have stopped the trouble and saved the damage to so many people's property etc.
Lefty pinko PC attitudes towards the rioters is the very worse way to go about it.
Les
#29
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I like this comment on the Australian story.... Nail - Head if you ask me.....
Phil of Sydney Posted at 3:28 PM August 11, 2011
A sad example of what can happen when a country loses control of its borders over the past 40 years and fails to absorb and assimilate huge numbers of economic migrants. This is not the Britain I lived in during the 1960s. Its hard to know what the country represents today.
Phil of Sydney Posted at 3:28 PM August 11, 2011
A sad example of what can happen when a country loses control of its borders over the past 40 years and fails to absorb and assimilate huge numbers of economic migrants. This is not the Britain I lived in during the 1960s. Its hard to know what the country represents today.
#30
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I like this comment on the Australian story.... Nail - Head if you ask me.....
Phil of Sydney Posted at 3:28 PM August 11, 2011
A sad example of what can happen when a country loses control of its borders over the past 40 years and fails to absorb and assimilate huge numbers of economic migrants. This is not the Britain I lived in during the 1960s. Its hard to know what the country represents today.
Phil of Sydney Posted at 3:28 PM August 11, 2011
A sad example of what can happen when a country loses control of its borders over the past 40 years and fails to absorb and assimilate huge numbers of economic migrants. This is not the Britain I lived in during the 1960s. Its hard to know what the country represents today.