View Poll Results: How much do you think it is 'obscene' to earn an individual
£50,000
6
19.35%
£100,000
5
16.13%
£200,000
2
6.45%
£300,000
0
0%
£400,000
0
0%
£500,000
2
6.45%
£750,000
3
9.68%
£1,000,000
2
6.45%
£5,000,000
2
6.45%
£50,000,000
9
29.03%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll
It's bonus time!! How much is obscene?
31 January 2012, 01:23 PM
#1
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It's bonus time!! How much is obscene?
As we are now in the heart of bonus season and RBS have taken the first body blow - how much does an individual have to earn in total before you regard it (as the media widely shouts) 'obscene'?
So this is not just bonus - in total.
So this is not just bonus - in total.
Last edited by Trout; 31 January 2012 at 01:47 PM.
31 January 2012, 01:44 PM
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£50k is alot but if youre earning £250k a year then I guess its not obscene but £100k bonus regardless of what you earn is a ridiculous sum of money to earn as a bonus.
31 January 2012, 01:47 PM
#5
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when your 80% owned by the tax payer a million quid pays back a million quid of debt, once there in the black, paid off there debts they can pay what they like.
31 January 2012, 01:51 PM
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10% of sales is not unreasonable as a commission - is that ridiculous?
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31 January 2012, 02:16 PM
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Of course, if you earned £50,000,000 then you deserve it. It's what people get paid that is the real issue 
I don't think there is anything obscene about a bonus, but I do believe it should depend on what has been done, not just there because it's written in to your contract.
We have made a significant loss this year (but mainly due to money set aside for PPI), so I don't think we should get a bonus, but we still may do.
Geezer
I don't think there is anything obscene about a bonus, but I do believe it should depend on what has been done, not just there because it's written in to your contract.
We have made a significant loss this year (but mainly due to money set aside for PPI), so I don't think we should get a bonus, but we still may do.
Geezer
31 January 2012, 03:36 PM
#13
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Properly measured nothing is too extreme, but it rarely is – as I said in the other thread the bar seems set too low sometimes.
People seem to get bonuses for turning up to work, as part of their general remuneration, these causes a lack of transparency
Presumably the general job description they sign up to have some form of KPI’s attached, not just "see you at 9 in the morning"
Margaret Thatcher tried it (with the collusion of Labour and the Liberals) with MP’s salary, rather than start a debate over proper remuneration for MP’s, it was tacitly agreed they could use the expenses system to “top” up their pay. And look where that got us.
If Hester is worth, 5 million, then pay him that, and bonus him if he out performs the norm. I.e. makes a genuine and quantifiable difference, beyond what you would expect form a decent wage
Too many execs get bonuses just for keeping up with the general trend. The ever increasing pay for CEO’s etc has not been matched by and increase in shareholder value.
It seems for every Hester there is an Andy Carroll journeyman waiting in the wings – 35mill WTF!!
Buck the trend, make a genuine difference, get the reward, this especially applies to entrepreneurs who actually build a business from scratch, not glorified admin clerks
People seem to get bonuses for turning up to work, as part of their general remuneration, these causes a lack of transparency
Presumably the general job description they sign up to have some form of KPI’s attached, not just "see you at 9 in the morning"
Margaret Thatcher tried it (with the collusion of Labour and the Liberals) with MP’s salary, rather than start a debate over proper remuneration for MP’s, it was tacitly agreed they could use the expenses system to “top” up their pay. And look where that got us.
If Hester is worth, 5 million, then pay him that, and bonus him if he out performs the norm. I.e. makes a genuine and quantifiable difference, beyond what you would expect form a decent wage
Too many execs get bonuses just for keeping up with the general trend. The ever increasing pay for CEO’s etc has not been matched by and increase in shareholder value.
It seems for every Hester there is an Andy Carroll journeyman waiting in the wings – 35mill WTF!!
Buck the trend, make a genuine difference, get the reward, this especially applies to entrepreneurs who actually build a business from scratch, not glorified admin clerks
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 31 January 2012 at 03:37 PM.
31 January 2012, 04:39 PM
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It depends what you mean by earned.
There is a trader who was at Deutsche Bank in 2007/8 who bet on red when everyone else was betting on black. When the market went red he made an extra profit of around $10 billion (contrary hearsay and popular opinion this is an extraordinary amount of profit from a single trader).
He was extremely angry when his bonus was only $50m; and even more angry when it was paid in shares (which promptly lost 70% of their value!!!).
Did he earn his bonus?
A hedge fund manager set up a hedge fund to deliberately bet on red at the same time everyone was betting on black. He invested his own money as well as his clients money. He lost everything on the way - his friends and his staff.
When red came up, not black, he made $20bn. His bonus was around $4.9bn.
Did he earn his bonus?
31 January 2012, 05:07 PM
#16
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31 January 2012, 05:32 PM
#17
The bonus to the top boy at RBS was a fair amount considering he was brought in by the government and he was paid 2m the year before and they still made a loss. Obviously Joe public doesn't even come close to making a bonus of that size but they dont do a job of his scale. You need to pay good wages to top boys to keep them on thief toes.
31 January 2012, 06:38 PM
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Not possible to say really. However, many large companies are kept going by the wealthy which in turn keeps thousands of people in employment. Ferrari, sunseeker, lear, cartier, rolex, gulfstream etc etc.
If you think earning £50m a year is a lot you would be right, but someone who earns that probably has a private jet, couple of boats, several houses, cars etc.
Iyswim.
If you think earning £50m a year is a lot you would be right, but someone who earns that probably has a private jet, couple of boats, several houses, cars etc.
Iyswim.
31 January 2012, 10:44 PM
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It depends what you mean by earned.
There is a trader who was at Deutsche Bank in 2007/8 who bet on red when everyone else was betting on black. When the market went red he made an extra profit of around $10 billion (contrary hearsay and popular opinion this is an extraordinary amount of profit from a single trader).
He was extremely angry when his bonus was only $50m; and even more angry when it was paid in shares (which promptly lost 70% of their value!!!).
Did he earn his bonus?
A hedge fund manager set up a hedge fund to deliberately bet on red at the same time everyone was betting on black. He invested his own money as well as his clients money. He lost everything on the way - his friends and his staff.
When red came up, not black, he made $20bn. His bonus was around $4.9bn.
Did he earn his bonus?
There is a trader who was at Deutsche Bank in 2007/8 who bet on red when everyone else was betting on black. When the market went red he made an extra profit of around $10 billion (contrary hearsay and popular opinion this is an extraordinary amount of profit from a single trader).
He was extremely angry when his bonus was only $50m; and even more angry when it was paid in shares (which promptly lost 70% of their value!!!).
Did he earn his bonus?
A hedge fund manager set up a hedge fund to deliberately bet on red at the same time everyone was betting on black. He invested his own money as well as his clients money. He lost everything on the way - his friends and his staff.
When red came up, not black, he made $20bn. His bonus was around $4.9bn.
Did he earn his bonus?
Trading is a zero sum game...for every massive winner some sap is taking the other side of the bet. Where is Alloy? I know you don't agree with this and believe trading is some sort of money tree for everyone to bi-win from.
Put is this way re: RBS bonus'. How do you feel about any RBS employees getting bonus' when the taxpayer is underwater still? Legal maybe? Morally right? I dunno? I know it seems to anger the mob.
31 January 2012, 10:50 PM
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Football players' wages are obscene. When are we going to see a cap on those? This guy's bonus amounts to about five weeks' wages for a premiership wankballer.
31 January 2012, 10:56 PM
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31 January 2012, 11:17 PM
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31 January 2012, 11:18 PM
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I thought this thread was about bankers bonus' not traders bonus' Trout?
Trading is a zero sum game...for every massive winner some sap is taking the other side of the bet. Where is Alloy? I know you don't agree with this and believe trading is some sort of money tree for everyone to bi-win from.
Put is this way re: RBS bonus'. How do you feel about any RBS employees getting bonus' when the taxpayer is underwater still? Legal maybe? Morally right? I dunno? I know it seems to anger the mob.
Trading is a zero sum game...for every massive winner some sap is taking the other side of the bet. Where is Alloy? I know you don't agree with this and believe trading is some sort of money tree for everyone to bi-win from.
Put is this way re: RBS bonus'. How do you feel about any RBS employees getting bonus' when the taxpayer is underwater still? Legal maybe? Morally right? I dunno? I know it seems to anger the mob.
31 January 2012, 11:26 PM
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My point about footballers is that poor performance/failure is ruthlessly punished. In banking this appears to not be so...or is not always so...indeed it has been rewarded.
31 January 2012, 11:29 PM
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As the originator of the thread I can assure you that this thread is not about bankers bonuses it is about at what level does remuneration become obscene. It is catalysed by the discussion of banking bonuses and as the word obscene had come up I wondered how much that was.
Any industry.
Football
Oil
Iron
Pastry
...