JohnSmith

I have yet another question

It would now seem that the administrators have finally told the Boss he has to consider TUPE and that we may not be able to get away from it

Unless he removes us from the list of assets for sale / transfer

Now I would rather he didn't TUPE us across so my contract becomes null and void and I can go after all the customers for my newly formed company

However if he leaves us in the sale / transfer of the company from oldco to newco (phoenix from the ashes etc) and decides to TUPE

At which point could I opt out ? is there a time limit?

I potentially don't want to be TUPED across but he is telling the administrators that we all started working for newco from 1st March and oldco hasnt officially gone into administration yet (just the intention of administration filed with the courts which expires midnight tomorrow)

If he goes down the TUPE route can I opt out on payday and just walk away saying stuff your job I haven't signed a new contract or is it a bit more complex than that?

If I resign now or if the company officially is in admin from tomorrow then I risk losing 2 weeks pay, so to me timing is everything

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Another thread about your friend

TX.

JohnSmith

No, it's about me

JohnSmith

Well it looks like we are being TUPED but we still havent been told anything

Are we now meant to be told we are being TUPED to then have the option of opting out. I don't just want to resign as this causes too many problems

Devildog

Yes, you can opt out, but you have to opt out before the transfer.

By law you are supposed to be told about the Tupe transfer before it happens and given the opportunity to accept it or leave voluntarily.

Leslie

It really is a bit difficult to understand what all that means. What on earth is a Tupe?

Just as well I avoid using all the jargon that went with my job!

Les

mannyo

Tupe in essence just means you transfer to the new company and retain your current T&C's and length of service plus other benefits. If you are in scope of Tupe, you have two choices, either Tupe over or if you decide not to transfer, you will have been deemed to have resigned from the job you are doing.

hodgy0_2

it stand for Transfer Under Protected Employement

it was needed when companies started outsourcing services to 3rd parties

by law the company bidding for the outsourced work had to offer empoyment to the people already doing it and TUPE them across

Devildog

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2.../contents/made

JohnSmith

Thanks again DD

Well we were told last week that we were NOT being Tuped across and now the administrators are coming in (the protection ran out last night at midnight)

I have now seen that he has looked into TUPE laws and does NOT want to Tupe us across and wants us removed from the sale and has told the administrators he is happy to bin us all off and leave us to fend for ourselves if he will be liable for our wages last month

He is claiming that the newco is very different to the oldco, whereas they are identical apart from the name

So now he doesn't want us TUPED and has asked for us to be removed from the sale

So as we haven't been told anything we are still none the wiser as to what the foof is going on

I also got informed this evening that he said newco will fold in 3 years time just like oldco and wipe out all the debt and start again

the guy is a fooking ***** and needs knee capping now

JohnSmith

I think my Boss has just shot himself in the foot LOL

Oldco Customer emailed him asking when he was getting everything he has ordered

Boss mails back, sorry I am looking at bringing in administrators so you wont be getting anything

Customer emails him back ' so your not in administration? you are still trading? so in that case when can John Smith come in to finish all the work, and can we have his time in lieu of the 62 grand you still owe us for goods and services we have already paid for ? '

Boss replies 'No, John Smith and the rest of the team no longer work for oldco and therefore it is impossible to fulfil anything anymore due to the current circumstances'

I was copied in on all these emails too

And I am supposed to be going to that customer tomorrow with newco head on to do work for them

Turbohot

That should send some shivers down his spine. He will have to pinch himself to ensure that you are for real. TUPE must be good as you will still have your employment and the customer won't be losing his 62k. That's good.

JohnSmith

TH I do NOT want TUPE LOL, and the customer will NEVER get his 62k back

Things just get more weird

I replied to the bosses email whereby I am not employed anymore asking what should I do about tomorrow

He has now told me to go, but now as a favour and not to mention newco as they are not to know anything (yesterday he said I could go but ONLY if they paid newco)

This is a bit stupid as last week he sent them details of newco and got them to raise a PO so I could go to site

I have also just found out that when sending the newco details over as they still are not VAT registered (application pending) they have give them oldco's VAT number

And the best news is the credit controller's relative actually works for HMRC but more importantly the fraud department

Turbohot

Oh, right. You did say that you are supposed to be at his; to carry out some sorta work? I didn't know what, though. It is possible that instead of building him a posh extension, you just are supposed to check his chimley, I don't know. The latter certainly doesn't cost 62K.

It really does sound very weird. It would have driven me round the bend if I were working into something as messy and scatty as that. Hope you keep your sanity, John.

JohnSmith

Sorry for the confusion TH

Basically a customer spent 200k with oldco and have paid all 200k, they are still waiting for 62k of it and today have been told not a chance

However they still need work doing so asked newco to "pay off" the 62k debt in free time, and were told no that they had to pay newco for any work they wanted as the contract is with oldco and not newco's problem

I was originally meant to go tomorrow as paid but the customer called me today to say not to go in as they do not want to pay for my time (or rather they dont want to give oldco or newco any more money at all) but my boss has backtracked and told me to go free of charge as one last favour but I am now not to mention the old company

I blame the volume of drugs on his jekyll and hyde behaviour

Turbohot

No worries, John. I'll get it in the end.

Hmmm. Not good for the customer.

Now, this bit:

This ^ is very messy, isn't it? It's not your fault at all.


I agree that,

He really seems strange, John. I mean, fancy sending old company's VAT number to HMRC as the new company's? That is just a very rattlehead act.

JohnSmith

Sorry that should have been I am not to mention newco

It isnt the first customer he has sent oldco VAT number against newco accounts for invoicing. just because he is still waiting for his new VAT number and customers are wanting to cancel orders

Turbohot

Hmmm, he is in a right pickle. Hope he gets the new VAT number soon.

JohnSmith

I hope he doesn't but I think he has got it now

I think plans are in place now to get him reported to the relevant authorities but knowing him he will probably get away with it and carry on regardless

Leslie

My thanks to those who explained the meaning of TUPE. All becomes clear, or clearer anyway.

Les

Fat Boy

Some of the companies I work with are in the media world and you have the great TUPE effect when, say, Cadbury decides that their current ad agency is full of hopeless slackers who haven't had a novel idea ever so they go out to a pitch with 5 new and different ad agencies to get some new blood and ideas - only to be then forced to TUPE across all the old useless stumps from the previous agency to their newly appointed agency. Genius

Scooby Jo

Just to clarify, TUPE stands for: Transfer of Undertakings and Protection of Employment Regulations - covers all employment terms and conditions except pension.

I would not do any work for oldco or newco as it doesnt appear that you have a relevant contract of employment, nor, if something happened to you at work, are you likely to be covered by any form of insurance It all sounds very dodgy to me

JohnSmith

To clarify now after a few further details

we are still NOT in adminstration but yet still under umbrella protection (intent filed in courts) and the tw*t is still ordering ****e under oldco and trading as newco

We are NOT being TUPED that has now been made crystal clear which is cool as I am free to walk

I will NOT be signing a new contract and im hoping that once I get paid (IF) end of this month I will be doing one

I have a few things in place but timing will be crucial

Oh and for anyone who still thinks it is my company (TX) a couple of mods know who I am and I have spoke with a member of her majesty's for some advice on ways to go to report fraud along with proof

Fat Boy

He's a very naughty boy (not the Messiah)

speedking

Either he closes oldco and makes everyone redundant with the associated costs.

Or he transfers the undertakings (work and employees) to newco with similar terms and conditions of contract and continuity of employment.

For example, if he transferred the staff from oldco to newco but offered only half the previous wages then you could leave and claim constructive dismissal.

Under TUPE once you have started working for newco you are deemed to have accepted the terms and conditions offered. If the new terms are similar and you refuse to move then you have resigned and get no redundancy.

The legislation is to protect employees rights and therefore cannot easily be avoided by an unscrupulous employer.

Before you do any work for newco you need a new contract of employment with that company. As stated above the insurance and sickpay considerations alone make that essential.

JohnSmith

I really am losing the will to live LOL

I have now been told today that we are now officially in administration and we do not have any contracts and technically we do not work for newco either

But the boss being the boss came in for 30 mins and then took 2 of my guys out to the pub and they have only just got home

I was also told now that he may have to TUPE us, but he really doesn't want to and I really don't want him to either

it is a **** take and a fvcking joke

JohnSmith

Ok this above bit sort of contradicts itself

You say once you start working for newco you have accepted the T & C's and then you say before you do any work you need a new contract

We havent had a new contract for newco and one minute he tells us we work for newco and then when he gets a cob on he says no one has a contract

and now he is emailing my staff saying they have done foof all today (he has been sat in the pub whilst his girlfriend has been sat at home uploaded their 28 grand company holiday pics up onto facebook)

Mikej857

This all sounds very fishy to me and simply sounds like your boss is looking to avoid paying out on his outstanding contracts by putting the company into administration and then starting afresh.

This also seems not to have worked because he now has a company that has no income because he has no work for the new company and you could be looking at redundancy anyway due to the lack of work.

JohnSmith

Mike

Yes that is exactly what he has been doing, and he does it approx every 3 years too

He has still been ordering from suppliers and had some stock shifting being done today too

But the worst of it is. I happened to find some tablets in one of the drawers in the office so I now have a massive dilema on my hands

Beef

No dilemma

Report it.