Tidgy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17661011


is he that blind or is he just a dumbass?

jonc

The thing is this has been going on long before the current Governement came into power. Hopefully this "new revelation" for Osborne will mean that this Government will finally look to address this issue, something which the previous Government failed to do in the 13 years they were in power.

Tidgy

Nothing to do with anyone before him, its the fatc he was too dumb to realise it happened and this is the bloke we have holdign the pruse strigns of the country.

with the high tax break and this 'revelation' i think he has as much clue about the countries finances as i do,,,,

David Lock

Bear in mind that holdign the pruse strigns is a job in itself

dl

...seamus...

He's not blind or a dumbass!!

What he is is a con artist - does he really think that we believe he doesn't know how to cheat the system - I guarantee it he is at it himself

politicians are the weasliest most money grabbing *******s who ever walked the face of the planet

We, the poor, normal folk, pay masses of taxes through PAYE and NI, road fund, fuel tax, taxes on booze and **** etc etc and these ***** send all their expenses and returns off to be manipulated by their accountants

I never, ever vote and unless there's going to be a vote for a major reform I probably never will!

EddScott

At what point does tax mitigation become tax avoidance?

So not actually avoidance then? Just very good mitigation.

Its ironic really that as your wealth increases the opportunities to reduce your tax liabilities also increase.

jonc

Tax avoidance has always been something that Osborne wanted to tackle and no doubt he will have many advisors to help formulate a strategy on how to go about tackling this issue. The cynic in me tells me that he knew the extent of the avoidance, but is using the media to perhaps "exaggerate" ("shock" is a great word for this!) the scale of the issue to get the backing from the electorate including those of the rich by implication of guilt. Either way, whether or not he knew the extent of the tax avoidance by the richest people in this country, it will certainly raise this issue into public focus and therefore if the scale is exaggerated, it will mean that it will be harder and take longer to tackle. Osborne is simply biding his time and will guaging the responce from the public and more importantly from richest affected.

Tidgy

EddScott

Two problems - for every government drone trying to think up ways to close the loopholes theres a much better specialist coming up with ways to find more loopholes. Its media hype coming from a budget that has been seen as negative poor, positive rich.

His other problem is that if HMRC (not Gorgeous BTW - its not him finding the holes, HMRC = a bunch of overpaid lazy public servants) manage to close these loopholes, the rich will just leave. In the 70s where income tax for the very rich was something like 80% they just left.

tony de wonderful

Tax is too high in this country. At some point people have a duty to rebel.

jonc

Which is why I said Osborne is just biding his time; to be seen by the public that it's been raised as an important issue and that "further action" will be taken without actually doing or promising anything. The last thing Osborne wants is for the "wealth creators" to leave this country in their droves.

GlesgaKiss

I think these guys are on to something (page 5): http://people.bu.edu/kotlikof/The%20...%208-15-05.pdf

EddScott

In relation to the rest of Europe (at least those countries that have a working tax system) I understood the UK to be quite low for taxation.

I thought in some parts of northern europe, income tax starts somewhere closer to 30%.

I also thought this is why fuel is so expensive in the UK. In the 70s and 80s, taxation in the UK was very high and fuel was cheap. These days income tax is actually quite low (in relation to salaries) but fuel is expensive to make up the difference. Its why the 3p hike in August wasn't removed in the budget but income tax thresholds were increased. One compensates the other - throw in some bollox about strikes and induce panic buying and you've paid for the threshold increase in a couple of weeks

GlesgaKiss

The scary thing is the extent to which taxes still fall short of covering state expenditure in this country. As high as they are for some people in the UK, they need to be much higher to cover spending. And there we get to the route of the problem: the size of the welfare state.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Erm subsequent governments have always been chasing loopholes to gain revenue. Nothing new here. So long as certain means that are more tax effective remain, people will make full use of it.

The last government thought private pensions was a nice tax avoidance loophope to take advatntage of (that was their justification), and has left many royally screwed. yet protecting the public sector's pensions. Nice.

In the end ofthe day constructive accounting is nothing new...infact its an good accountant's duty to LEGALLY minimise a tax burden on their clients. Technically if its later found illegal, the accountant is in deep do do for malpractice and possibly fraud (which is why I ask where on earth is Rednap's accountant...they are the ones also held culpable) .

What I do find abhorrent is when large organisations, like Vodaphone are found guilty of tax avoidance and the HMRC bend over and let them get away with it. They broke the laws, yet they never paid the full amount owed.

Tidgy

is it time to simplify the rules then?

Leslie

A lot of what you say is pretty accurate. The one mistake you made is to admit that you have never voted in an election and that has seriously weakened your argument. If you don't bother to vote, then you lose the right to complain. Abandoning your vote will do nothing to improve matters in the Country. You may of course prefer to live under a dictatorship, instead of a pretence at a democracy as we do at the moment!

Les

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

+1 If the 40% of the population that typcally don't vote actually voted (even the green party FFS ), it could really turn things upside down and shake up the big three.

Devildog

Seriously mate, you actually believe that this tax avoidance wasn't permitted during the 13 years of Labour being in power?

Anyone else see the irony in the "too dumb to realise it happened" comment

EddScott

One thing I do think they should do is ditch NI. It was supposed to pay for the NHS but it isn't so clear anymore.

Ditch NI and raise income tax to cover the difference. With one stroke you cut out a whole chunk of public spending by closing NICO altogether.

They won't because nobody understand NI and so it just creeps up without anyone really noticing.

But isn't it better for us perceived "middle class" folk that the career unemployed be paid enough to keep then in **** and white lightening so they don't go robbing the us?

What do you do with the single mums with a dozen children from 15 fathers?

I agree with the state is being completely turned over but how do you wean the population off it?



IMO, the wifes parents are career unemployed come career sick. They manage to find enough money for bacca and "a few pints". We avoid the subject of where all the money comes from (often refered to as "they") but last visit we had a few words and her father said "I earn more than you two put together!!" I think it was said to get a reaction out of me but because he said "earn" I just laughed in his face

Funkii Munkii

fatc !

GlesgaKiss

In the real world? It probably won't happen unless there is some drastic event that spurs a change. What such an event could possibly be is not easy to guess at.

People like you and me probably won't have much say in the outcome. It's just a case of sitting back and accepting it while getting as much as you can out of the situation. That's probably stating the obvious.

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

goverments chasing loopholes LMFAO you people on here are sadly deluded if you think for one moment they will be closed . they created them for thier own gains, think about it if you had loads of shares in big companies and wanted to make said companys more profitable (therfore shareholder divi increases) and had infulence . what easier way to do it than to make a few law changes allowing said company to register thier head office in another country , therefore allowing them to pay no uk tax at all . a few example of companies and people .
amazon
phillip green £280million tax bill avoided (wife lives in monaco)
nestle
lewis hamilton
the list goes on and on . the expences scandal was just a diversion in my book to what is actually going on

Lee247

While they spend loads of time and money, investigating Mr Plumber, self employed and earning about 30k a year, just to make sure he is not cheating them out of any tax. They need to get their priorities right. Bunch of nuggets

Tidgy

think your totaly missing the point of what i was getting at. yes it was going on then and now, but for someone who is suposedly leading the finantial side fo the country to not know?

GlesgaKiss

Do you really think he didn't know?

Tidgy

thast what hes claiming, lol


so either way hes a tool

dnc

Now there's a conumdrum

Dingdongler

I think what most people on here forget is that they probably take more from the tax/state regime than they put in.

The top 1% of earners pay 25% of the total tax take. So unless you fall in that category (iirc earn £150k+ pa) the chances are that you benefit by way of state schools, nhs, police, fire brigade, social services, welfare etc etc far more than you put in.

Leslie

I though everyone realised all that. All well as the advantages to be gained when they have succeeded in handing this country over to the Eu wolves!

Les