dirtybarry

At last THE TRUTH JF96 RIP

Funkii Munkii

The truth about why it happened or the truth why so many died ?

dirtybarry

we all know why so many died and why it happened why has it took 23 years to come out ?

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So what does it say? Scousers whiter than white? No-one to blame?

dirtybarry

Sun reader ?

Leslie

No one will want to take the blame,and certainly not to pay any compensation!

Les

The Dogs B******s

Man U fan by any chance?

dirtybarry

Think its about people going to jail les not paying compensation

CrisPDuk

It's mostly about getting the original coroner's verdict overturned and a genuine inquest take place

It's sad that even when the truth finally gets a proper public airing, there are still those that believe everything they read in the S*n

Lydia72

Does it matter that they were Scousers?

I am from Liverpool but I'd still feel the same if the tragedy had happened at any other football ground in the country. Ninety six innocent people went to a football match and never came home.

The police/ government lied for twenty three years to cover their own backs. Funny how the police were allowed to claim compensation for their 'distress' and yet the families of the dead weren't.

I thought I'd feel glad when the truth came out. I just feel numb.

LEO-RS

The Hillsborough disaster really frustrates me, infact, not so much the events of what happened that day but how the people of Liverpool have reacted to it every day since. Yes, it was a horrible day for football, yes it shouldnt have happened but Scousers do love to wallow in their own self pity. Every year Hillsborough is shoved down our throats, how Liverpudlians still cant believe it nor accept it and and how year in, year out,they blame everyone else but themselves. Boycot the Sun for writing this, kick up stink about that, justice for the 96 that died and so on and on. Every single year without fail we get reminded of it. People from Liverpool really do wallow in it and continually remind people of the events that happened 20 odd years ago. Its even getting passed down generations to kids who were not even born.

Does anyone remember what happened 4yrs previously when Liverpool fans killed 6 of their own, 33 from Juventus and injured more than 600 by rioting at the Euro final?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

Justice when it suits them then, Liverpool fans entirely to blame for that event but yet they are all happy to keep that 1 swept away under the carpet. Stinks of ignorance, all they harp on about is Hillsborough this and that, bugger the fact they killed their own 4yrs previously.

Just to make my point clear, does the 1971 Ibrox disaster that killed 66 people get the same coverage as Hillsborough? No, infact, there are probably millions out there unaware that it happened. Liverpool is no different to Glasgow, well, the people clearly are though, Glaswegians dont play the victim, they take it on the chin and get on with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrox_disaster

As good old Boris Johnson once said when describing Liverpool...''You all wallow in your own self pity'' Not a truer word spoken Boris.

My post will probably offend many from Liverpool, but you know what, I dont particularly care, that's my opinion of the city and nothing nor no one is going to change it. Im sick fed up of hearing about Hillsborough

An0n0m0us

dirtybarry

****

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Can the mods remove the swear filter just this once ... strange post Leo

TX.

GC8

The truth was always blindingly obvious.

It came about due to a poor planning decision (NF should have been at Leppings Lane & LFC the Spion Kop).

It was caused by Liverpool supporters pushing and by the stupid OIC who opened the turnstiles allowing the pushing supporters to flood into the already full terraces.

The tragedy was then compounded by terrible decision making which prevented rescue and then denied the victims medical attention.

Todays 'revelations' only confirm what everyone in Sheffield already knew - that statements were altered under duress and that people died long after the time agreed by the coroner.

LEO-RS

I suspect he is calling me a t*at or a c*nt, who cares, I'm entitled to my opinion TX

Perhaps it is a bit deep for me, however, my point was more to do with the Heysel disaster which most Liverpudlians would like to just sweep under the carpet and the Ibrox disaster which had a pretty shocking death toll too.

I'm not heartless where I do not care about Hillsborough, of course I do, it was a terrible tragedy, all I was doing in my post was having a pop at the reaction, not the actual events.

Disasters happen frequently, yes mistakes were made, but that's just life, accept and move on, hindsight is a wonderful thin

Lydia72

"Accept and move on?"
Can you not see why the relatives could not do that?

How would you feel if you waved your dad, your sister, or your ten-year old child off on a sunny day and never saw them again? Then you found out that your dead ten-year old was being CRB checked and his blood tested for alcohol?

It isn't the fact that the families could not 'accept that disasters happen'. It's that for twenty three years the authorities involved kept up a campaign of deception. If SY police and the government at the time admitted what had really happened then you probably wouldn't still be hearing about Hillsborough now. There would probably be a mention every ten years or something and that would be it.

Nice to see that even though the truth is now coming out that people are still trying to blame innocent people for their own deaths

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

I am neither Sun reader, nor ManU fan nor Scouser hater.

My point is that should the enquiry now conclude that none of the fans was in any way to blame, but that the police etc altered statements, I cannot see how that helps.

It could NOT have happened had people not been shoving. WHY were they?
And are they not to blame too?

I also take note of the posts about Heysell: you never hear a word about THAT one do you? And who WAS to blame there?

Lydia72

They were shoving because they had been herded like cattle into a space that was too small for them. People came away on that day with their tickets still intact proving that crowd control was non-existent.

Heysel was the fault of football hooligans. Every club in that era had their own, not just LFC, it could have just as easily been Chelsea or West Ham.


Twenty two of the fans killed at Hillsborough were under eighteen, what do you think Heysel had to do with them?

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Here is a quote I read from someone who was actually there that day.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think a lot of you are missing the point, yesterday revealed that regardless of who did what the government and associated authorities covered up much of the truth about what happened after the gates were opened and have allowed the victims' families to live with those lies for 23 years.

It does not matter that it was Liverpool or even that it was football, what matters is that yet again to suit their own ends the government of the time and subsequent ones have lied until finally they have been forced to face the awful truth.

Cameron's apology is an embarrassment as once again, like the expenses row, they are only apologising because they got found out not because they are in any way sorry. As for Thatcher.... another blot on an already utterly distasteful record - no surprise really.

Finally I have no idea why Liverpool gets singled out for wallowing in 'self pity', seems to me the city is just a bit more of a community and a bit more united than many hence they tend to react to things as a community rather than as a group of individuals.... yet this seems to be a bad thing according to a small petty minded minority!

Geezer

I have always found the fans utter refusal to believe they had done anything wrong difficult to deal with. I don't think it's a particularly Liverpudlian problem, it's indictative of the general state of the UK, it's never my fault, always someone else.

Yes, the police/emergency services made mistakes and covering them up is disgraceful, but they were only ever put in that situation by the fact that thousands of fans turned up and tried to get in to the ground without tickets.

Should the police have been able to handle that situation? Absolutely, but things don't always go to plan.

An inquest won't bring back the dead, nor will it lessen the pain of the relatives, and I can't realisitically see anyone being jailed either. It will just drag on and on.

Instead of a witch hunt, it should be used as an exercise to prevent it ever happening again, but I suspect that already has been done without the admissions of guilt.

Geezer

Lydia72

So you are in charge of an event. There is a limited capacity and it's admission by ticket only. Many, many, more people arrive, some without tickets and (apparently) clearly drunk.

Do you:
a. refuse entry on the grounds of health and safety
b. open the gates wide and let them all flood in

If you answered 'b' then well done, you can retire two years later, on a full pension, because of the stress. The rest of your force, the government, parts of the media, they will all back you up. Good for you.

Geezer

They opened the gates to alleviate the crush there. In hindsight, a poor decision, but a sitiaution that was caused by the fans, nonetheless.

Look, I have never said I blame the fans, rather that they had their part to play. The main problem was the police handling of the sitiaution, but things don't always go to plan.

The subsequent cover up was a disgrace. No one has ever said the people who died were a cause of their own demise, the poor buggers were people with tickets who had got there nice and early.

You have a very blinkered view.

Geezer

davyboy

It was a tragic accident, and clearly a bit of a cover up.

But every fan who arrived without a ticket contributed to the accident. If these fans didn't turn up, would the accident still have happened?

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately much of what follows is wrong though.

No the design of the stadium was poor. The Lepping Lane End had been the focus of a potential disasters twice before yet nothing was done.

SWFC's stewarding had been called into question before and the safety certificate was out of date. the match should never have been at Hillsborough.

That's absolutely not what caused it based on the evidence released. That's the lie the police made up.

The new report says CCTV and TV pictures show THIS WASN'T THE CASE


That bit all true. The summary is bad policing, bad stewardign and unbelievable lies from SYP who wanted to shift the blame to anyone but themselves.


EDIT for geezer and davyboy who still seem to be slurping down the SYP lies with relish.

- Leppings Lane End was not full pens 3 and 4 were but the end pens were not. There wasn't an issue with ticketless fans and too many people. The people who had every right the be there were all sent to the same place.

- They were late due the M62 accident.

Please don't keep repeating the discredited lies from SYP. The report out yesterday confirms it's all guff.


5t.

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

So no-one turned up and pushed their way in without tickets? Not one fan was drunk? Not one turned up late?

But it wasn't. And the fact that everyone had their share of thugs in no way excuses those fans on that day.


Not a thing.....but you miss the point. We hear loads about Hillsborough from Liverpool fans, but when do you EVER hear about Heysel?

Now, moving on:

So 162 police officers altered their statements?

And are we expected to believe that they all woke up one morning and thought, "OK, today I will alter my statement!"??

Not likley. But who told them to do so? Who pressured them? How high didf it go?

And will anyone but individual, low-ranking officers be facing the courts?

Don't hold your breath.

What you've been given already smacks of sacrificial lambs........

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

- Late due to crash. Please find a footy match where no one in the crowd has had a pint though. That's not the same as everyone being plastered. The findings clearly state that drunkeness was NOT a factor.


Never, oh except in May this year http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...-disaster.html

Oh and 2010 when the two team played a friendly in memorium http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/liver...0252-26554958/

Google is your friend.

5t.

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Me!! At the last Bayern v Dortmund match I went to. I was driving a mini van full of people back from Munich so didn't touch a drop all day.

And I am pretty sure the 4 kids we had with us hadn't had a pint either

fivetide

iTrader: (1)

Did they serve beer pitch side at that game? They used to in Germany, not sure if they still do.

(I'll ignore the point on kids, I think you knew what I was getting at you cheeky scamp!)

5t.