warrenm2

Well it finally happened and DC has made "the speech", probably one of the most important speeches in years, and it's dominated the news all day. Interesting that no-one on here has mentioned it. What's everyone's opinion on it and the in/out referendum?

Tidgy

well be out. ont think its a good thing myself, but theres to much bad feeling cos of all teh crap that we get fropm them.

JTaylor

Precisely.

Graz

I doubt it will ever happen but great bit of electioneering by Mr Cameron, vote us in, we'll let you decide if we should stay in Europe. Unfortunately most of the country reads either the Sun or the Mail and it precisely what they think they want so they'll all vote for him in the next election

scud8

iTrader: (1)

If it comes to it, I would vote to leave. I don't think it will happen though - this is a negotiating ploy. We are such a big export market for Germany they will not take the risk of us leaving. It's likely the EU will change significantly anyway, both the Germans and Dutch are already looking for the kind of changes we want.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

It's nothing more than manipulation of the electorate by Cameron and anyway unless the referendum goes the way he wants nothing will happen .... as per the Leveson Inquiry.

What he is good at is wasting taxpayers' money on shyte like this though.

Be a laugh if UKIP got in - at least then he has his referendum answer

P.S. I know that won't happen btw

Martin2005

I think an in/out vote is inevitable given the recent strength of the UK Isolation Party.

I hope for all of Europe's sake that genuine reform can be achieved.

I voted 'wait and see' as I don't think that any other answer makes sense.

scoobeenut

Chances are by the time we get to a referendum that the Euro will have crashed and burned anyway.

ScoobyWon't

As much as I'd like the public to be given the chance to vote on continuing membership of the EU, I don't believe that we will get the chance to vote, even if Cameron and co did win the next election.

Cameron wants to stay in Europe. Even if the public want the chance to vote in the referendum, the public can't be given the chance because of Cameron's wishes.

Article 50 must be invoked to allow a member state to begin negotiations, with the other members states, on changes to it's membership. In order to be able to invoke Article 50, the member state must inform the other member states that it is planning to leave the EU.

Cameron wants us to stay in the EU, hence he would not inform the EU that we wish to leave, meaning that there can be no negotiations on our membership.

IMO, the only party who will push for an in/out vote would be UKIP.

Martin2005

I have to say that this is just nonsense.

As for UKIP they just want us out, referendum or not

warrenm2

I have to say that you talk nonsense!

Martin2005

So you agree with him then???

btw what nonsense are you referring to?

If you want to debate something then go for it

JDM_Stig

iTrader: (3)

nail on the head

Luan Pra bang

In some ways the UK cannot afford to leave and by the same token the EU cannot afford for the UK to leave, the EU ruling class know they have overstepped the mark with their demands for power and cash and now its like a poker hand with two opponents bluffing at the same time. It is natural that the EU overlords are trying to scaremonger the UK into staying as if the UK goes so will others unless they do so much harm to the UK politically and financially that other nations a too scared to leave. The flip side is that a serious economic problem in the UK could spiral and take most of Europe down with it. The only tenable solution is for the EU to basically wind its neck in.

David Lock

I think Cameron was forced into offering a referendum as he saw the increasing strength of UKIP as a big threat come election time plus Clegg has scuppered the boundary changes that would have tipped the balance in Cameron's favour.

He knew that a referendum now would be a resounding "Get Out" so he had no choice but to delay and hope

The public including me will always be confused as to what is really going on but I would like to know more about the "Free Trade Agreements" and if they mean that British exports suffer if we leave.

And it is sensible to keep the US on our side as 1.5 million troops can be useful to help out if we get in a mess.

dl

warrenm2

Yes I pretty much agree with that (meaning the statement you first commented on). You however dismissed the lot with a sweeping statement, so I find it ironic you then say I should debate it!

Perhaps you should comment on what you think is incorrect and reasons why you think so?

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if his chattering about an Eu referendum was the cause of the pound nosediving against the Euro.
That's 5cents in the pound lower from the start of the month.

warrenm2

My personal opinion on this is the UK must leave. As a net contributor, the cost of membership (in both financial and liberty measures) to the UK far outweighs any perceived benefit of membership. The obvious scare stories being flung around about Brexit only serve to illustrate how weak the argument for staying in really is. It is nonsense to say that all trade between the EU and UK will cease if we leave, and 3 million jobs will be lost. Total fabrication. Anyone thinking about it for 30 secs will realise what utter rot that is. The EU paint a picture where they are some kind of liferaft and anyone not in their club will be swamped by world trade and sink. Strength together and all that. However 179 countries are not members and don't have the problems of Spain, Greece and Italy, self inflicted wounds due to the Euro vanity project. It's not size that matters, but competitiveness. Countries such as Hong Kong and Singapore are successful in the world for that reason. They trade strongly and freely without restrictions and that benefits their countries, the UK must do the same.

I have written before on the real EU, ignoring Irish referendums (twice), removing Greek and Italian elected leaders, the corruption of unaudited accounts, the underlying political nature of "ever closer Union" to form a United States of Europe, erasing nation states. I for one will not be supporting that in any way

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Come on, you know Martin is always right and the rest of us are infidels

Leslie

I think it is worth looking forward towards the real meaning of a federated EU which is what the EU Commission has been aiming for right from its formation.

We would lose our country, real democracy would vanish...how much influence do you think we would have over our own affairs being run as we would be by by the EU Parliament? We have only 10% of its MP's and what power would they have?

Is it really the answer to be run by a central EU government?

I would prefer that we run our own country in the manner we wish.

Les

RA Dunk

Isn't that why we fought two World Wars, For this right?

After everything thats happened in this country all of the people who have died so we can have our say it's a ******* joke some dumb **** is willing to hand it over to some even dumber ***** in Brussels.

Chip

I would imagine that the vast majority of those who vote will not understand the fundamentals of being in or out of Europe anyway.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Ah well I have a plan for that and for general elections too.

I think there shoud be five relevant questions drawn from a set of say 100 (to avoid people telling subsequent voters the questons) at the top of the ballot paper and you fill in the answers when placing your vote.

Your vote is then weighted according to the number of correct answers you get.

Martin2005

Because it's nonsense to suggest that Cameron is somehow going to back down on this. He has pretty much painted himself into a corner now.
If he was to even hint at reneging on this he would be immediately deposed as leader of his party.

No serious person or commentator has even hinted that Cameron can somehow now refuse to hold a referendum now.

A more interestingly; how will he campaign if he fails to get what he needs from the EU. And he's really put Labour in a tough spot now it will be interesting to see how their policy evolves now as we head towards the 2015 election.

Martin2005

I don't think anyone ever said ALL trade with EU would cease (this is what annoys me about the way you portray this argument, using 'aunt Sally's' like this... if you want a serious debate, please make a serious point). There is undoubtedly a question mark over some of our trade with the EU should we leave. How big that 'some' is I don't know, and neither I suspect do you.

I still believe that we should do all we can to make the EU work, failing that we should leave. But let's at least try and engage in positive way first.

JTaylor

I agree. It's the only reasonable position to hold.

legb4rsk

My quote from another thread applies here;

'I just love the way Cameron is coming over all Billy Big Bo**ocks over Europe now the Toffs are running scared over UKIPs popularity.

Has he said anything specific about what he will do?
Has he set any time-frame for anything?

Will we fall for it? Off course we will.'

Just as today we hear that crime is down in the middle of a recession
& they just happen to be cutting back on the Police Force.

We still don't get it!! When you see these people spouting their rubbish you need to imagine it's some bloke who has turned up to tarmac your drive telling you these things.Don't be fooled by the Eton accent & the Saville Row suit.

warrenm2

Why though? What's in it for the UK? We pay a hefty membership fee and give away our sovereignty for what exactly? What do we get that we can't on our own?

DYK

Its billy bullsh!t,i'll still be voting UKIP,pity people will still be sucked in,time to get rid of the main two parties,had enough time/chances over the years,bring someone new in and let them have ago...

Martin2005

Yeah good luck with that one