Ant

I know its wrong but I want to know where a colleague stands.

Head office have received a letter from the council asking for the drivers details for littering.

Apparently they found a bag with rubbish in on the road side down a country lane, he swears blind it wasn't him.

They only reason they have traced it back is a fuel receipt was in the bag with the reg on.

The receipt was on the 27th Dec the bag was found 9th January.

Surely they cant enforce this as nobody has actually seen him do it? And they are just presuming it is him with the fuel receipt?

mamoon2

No, he could have put that receipt in any bin, including a council waste bin.

Tell them to do one

Ant

thats exactly what i had said to him! i dont think they have a leg to stand on tbh

jods

Slags. Every last one of 'em. **** 'em

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

I've got a sneaking suspicion that they can use the Ripa part of the 2000 Terorism act to compel employer to divulge the information............

Shaun

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

And the council, police and courts are, of course, all on the trail of YOUR money.

Best to just pay up. If it goes to court, they will double the fine and add costs plus victim surcharge.

mgcvk

I'm surprised and frankly pleased to hear a council is trying to enforce a litter penalty. Littering from cars is rife. You only really see it when you walk or cycle. Fuel receipt in the bag points at someone surely? Probably hard to prove but littering is idiotic.

kevo10

As far as i know this isnt new. since i was at school in the late 60s to 70s its been a crime ,petty yes, but ,nonthe less, a crime. Im not saying ive never dropped any litter cos i have. But i try my hardest to retrieve it.

markjmd

iTrader: (11)

If he's genuinely innocent, tell him to stand his ground.

kevo10

richs2891

Councils have always had the power to fine for littering but V few did up until a few years ago. Now more and more councils will persue you for the money and will take you to court for it.
As been said littering is not clever its a blight on the whole country, pay it and learn a lesson.

Richard

mrtheedge2u2

Tell him to stand his ground…..but what I cant fathom is why these wastes of space cant just keep the rubbish and put it in a bin instead of throwing their **** everywhere!!

urban

iTrader: (1)

No, **** that.

That's admitting you're guilty.

The police force here in NI have a new thing called 'Discretionary Disposals', basically the 'offence' sits on your file for 12 months and may be used against you if you commit any 'offence' in the next 12 months.
But more importantly it means you HAVE to admit guilt for it to be issued.

Basically it lets them deal and dispose with minor offences there and then - getting the officer a convenient tick in the box into the bargain.

I was recently stopped for doing 34 in a 30 zone.
The cop was a youngster, and clearly not that long in the force.
He spouted for a bit and then explained that he was giving me the DD.
He explained to me what it was, I said no, I want a ticket.

He then explained that he can't give me a ticket for 34 in a 30 and was giving me the DD instead.
On and on we went, I said well if you can't give me a ticket for the office, then why are you trying to give me the DD.
I lost the battle, but won the war as I complained to the station duty officer who removed the DD (he even said that he didn't agree with them)


Anyway, I don't agree with littering, and the litter police should do more to stop it - especially chewing gum & *** droppers

But at the end of the day they really don't have proof in this particular case.

Ant

Cheers people, I've let him know where he stands.

It seems they are guessing and are expecting somebody to own up to it with very little proof

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Just like speeding then......

And guess what? If you go to court, 99% of cASES END UP WITH YOU BEING GIVEN A BIGGER FINE, MORE POINTS, AND COSTS AGSINST, plus THE SURCHARGE, OF COURSE, THE TAX ON PEOPLE WHO GO TO COURT AND GET FINED.
fEK THIS CAPSLOCK!

Ant

It's not the same for speeding you've been visibly been seen with a witness.

All they are going on a receipt in a bag nobody has seen the person or vehicle doing this.

kevo10

I think the Environmental Officers who go round areas checking on fly tippers search through rubbish bags for at least 2 pieces of ' evidence'before considering taking action against the dumpers. Then they have a good chance of conviction. Might find this is the same.

Ant

When I say bag they are saying a tesco carry bag

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Nope, the back of your car has been photographed......

But you try and dodge it, see what happens.
Why? Money-making scam, just like this.

You've been warned

Ant

yes but the car has been photographed speeding ,essentially break the law.

Hence this is completely different scenario.

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Completely different ? yes as the burden of proof is different. In the case of speeding the test is beyond reasonable doubt..........for dropping the litter it's the balance of probability.

On the balance of probability the person who dropped the litter was the owner of the receipt.......guilty LOL

Shaun

RobsyUK

iTrader: (2)

Did no one see that programme about fly tipping.. A proper old guy paid a man to collect his rubbish and he had a receipt to say it will be disposed of correctly etc.

A receipt in the bags of rubbish had his address and they were going to fine him for the litter.

They were saying at the end of the day it's up to you to ensure you put it in the bin correctly and not down a country lane..

What about fruit skins. Am I ok launching these out of the window at 80?

kevo10

Might only be a fruit skin but at 80 mph it would still hurt. Wouldnt it just be easier to put in a bag and get rid of at home? Dont matter what it is, shouldnt be dumped for someone else to pick up

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

I suggest he takes it on the chin and pays the fine otherwise it will get expensive

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I'm not getting into a debate about the rights or wrongs of littering, but if this is a Tesco bag they have, then I would think if this does go further, it would be against your colleague. It's not like a large bag of rubbish has been dumped, it was (in the council's opinion) a bag of waste from a van and there happens to be a receipt amongst the rubbish to tie it to a vehicle. Now the council couldn't prove this guy was driving at the time (if he was, then for all he claims he wasn't responsible, maybe he is just trying to get out of it), also it could be possible that if the vehicle was used after him by somebody else, the bag was 'disposed' of by that person(s)....

It's difficult as I don't know the law as such. I know innocent people can be held accountable if waste is dumped by somebody else being paid to dispose of it, if said waste is linked back to them, but in a situation like that of your colleague, I'm not sure.

I would think that unless your workplace had said they didn't know who was driving that day and I am assuming that they have told them he was, they will chase him for this. He could fight this if he is determined enough, but right or wrong, I think taking it on the chin would be easier and potentially less costly.

If he has already been named, perhaps this is something he needs to fight through work, not that I am saying he would get anywhere with them either.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

This^^

There is no way on gods green earth that he will get away with this, regardless of innocent or guilty.

The system is set up to take your money, and it will, mark my words, they don't give a t0ss about fairness, he will be in and out like a whippet and well spanked.

Wish

iTrader: (2)

Tesco bag, Was it a Tesco fuel bill ?
With an empty sandwich and twix wrapper?
Cleaned the van out in the process then lobbed it out the window???