BMW 330D Sport
07 October 2002, 05:48 PM
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Hi Wendy,
My old Imola Red 330d Sport is at the dealers. They paid me £20k for it and it's up at £21995, so there's a bit of leeway there. It's at Godfrey Hall in Coventry and has done 43k miles on an X plate. It's mint and has 4 new tyres and had just been serviced when I sold it. Well worth a look if he/she likes red!
Matt
PS - I've got a new one now, and it's the only car I've had twice apart from a Scoob, so it must be good!
My old Imola Red 330d Sport is at the dealers. They paid me £20k for it and it's up at £21995, so there's a bit of leeway there. It's at Godfrey Hall in Coventry and has done 43k miles on an X plate. It's mint and has 4 new tyres and had just been serviced when I sold it. Well worth a look if he/she likes red!
Matt
PS - I've got a new one now, and it's the only car I've had twice apart from a Scoob, so it must be good!
09 October 2002, 05:53 PM
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The new 330d is meant for release sometime late 2003/early 2004. The engine is currently available in the new 7-series, but not across the range. It's still not 100% confirmed that it'll filter down to other lesser models. Hope it does! 
AC Schnitzer are doing a BMW approved tuning kit for the 330d that is awaiting sign-off amongst UK dealers. This has been on the cards for about 12 months now, so not holding my breath.
Chances are it will be expensive too, but at least the warranty will stay intact.
Milltek, in conjunction with AMD at Bicester do an ECU and exhaust upgrade. This gives 245bhp and 390 ft/lbs of torque from the current 3.0d. I've thought about it, but my warranty is quite precious to me for the next two years or so. I might just get the exhaust, as that gives 12 bhp and 20ft/lbs on its own. Plus it looks loads better than the standard system. It's 370GBp, so not too expensive either.
I'd imagine that a tuned 330d would be a right laugh, as mine runs a standard WRX close in the real world. At the Nurburgring it's quicker! LOL
Matt
AC Schnitzer are doing a BMW approved tuning kit for the 330d that is awaiting sign-off amongst UK dealers. This has been on the cards for about 12 months now, so not holding my breath.
Chances are it will be expensive too, but at least the warranty will stay intact.Milltek, in conjunction with AMD at Bicester do an ECU and exhaust upgrade. This gives 245bhp and 390 ft/lbs of torque from the current 3.0d. I've thought about it, but my warranty is quite precious to me for the next two years or so. I might just get the exhaust, as that gives 12 bhp and 20ft/lbs on its own. Plus it looks loads better than the standard system. It's 370GBp, so not too expensive either.
I'd imagine that a tuned 330d would be a right laugh, as mine runs a standard WRX close in the real world.
At the Nurburgring it's quicker! LOL Matt
09 October 2002, 10:13 PM
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Matt
I always fancied the 330Xd but BMW GB decide its not a good idea here, so I had a chipped A4 TDi Quattro before my Subaru. I had an Oettinger exhaust on this (similar cost, price, quality, looks and claims) but to be honest found it made a marginal performance increase, a little extra sound and mainly looks.
Last time I called into AMD (July) they were booking 6 weeks ahead (very busy with Audi TTs) and said they were no longer doing BMW tuning.
I'm still waiting for the next generation V6 Audi diesel to arrive and be dropped into the A4 - I want 4WD - and hopefully it won't understeer as much as before !
I always fancied the 330Xd but BMW GB decide its not a good idea here, so I had a chipped A4 TDi Quattro before my Subaru. I had an Oettinger exhaust on this (similar cost, price, quality, looks and claims) but to be honest found it made a marginal performance increase, a little extra sound and mainly looks.
Last time I called into AMD (July) they were booking 6 weeks ahead (very busy with Audi TTs) and said they were no longer doing BMW tuning.
I'm still waiting for the next generation V6 Audi diesel to arrive and be dropped into the A4 - I want 4WD - and hopefully it won't understeer as much as before !
10 October 2002, 09:59 AM
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Flat 4x4,
I might have gone for an Xd had it been available, but then it's bound to understeer more than the RWD equivalent, as with all 4WD cars. I parked next to one in Germany last year, and they sit a bit higher than even the SE models. Apparently you cannot lower them too much either, so I imagine it would wallow a bit.
I spoke to AMD a couple of weeks ago, and they had the exhaust on the shelf. I'd fit it myself, so no worries with waiting for it to be fitted. Guess that really I'd like a bit more noise from the pipe, and better looks, so it'll be just the job.
What I'd really like is the twin turbo Alpina conversion done on my 3 series. However, they don't do it and never will apparently! Having said that, Brabus do an E400CDI which uses the Merc V8Tdi, so that might be a car for when I'm more grown up! LOL
Matt
I might have gone for an Xd had it been available, but then it's bound to understeer more than the RWD equivalent, as with all 4WD cars. I parked next to one in Germany last year, and they sit a bit higher than even the SE models. Apparently you cannot lower them too much either, so I imagine it would wallow a bit.
I spoke to AMD a couple of weeks ago, and they had the exhaust on the shelf. I'd fit it myself, so no worries with waiting for it to be fitted. Guess that really I'd like a bit more noise from the pipe, and better looks, so it'll be just the job.
What I'd really like is the twin turbo Alpina conversion done on my 3 series. However, they don't do it and never will apparently! Having said that, Brabus do an E400CDI which uses the Merc V8Tdi, so that might be a car for when I'm more grown up! LOL
Matt
Trending Topics
14 October 2002, 06:36 PM
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Mine is going to be for sale soon. Not a sport, but a stunning looking Touring (didn't do the 330d touring sport until MY2002).
Details..
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=140884
[Edited by GaryC - 10/14/2002 6:36:55 PM]
Details..
http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadID=140884
[Edited by GaryC - 10/14/2002 6:36:55 PM]
15 October 2002, 05:31 PM
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I expect your selling it to buy a decent motor like a cossie Gary well done. No more brake pedals falling off. unexpected inflations of your air bags and blimey your paint won't fall of either.
Think of the fun you will have with your big power cossie as some bloke thinks hes the bees knees in his underpowered M3 E46 and you give him a good spank. Safe in the knowledge that his BMW was built on a tight budget and your engine wasn't.
Think of the fun you will have with your big power cossie as some bloke thinks hes the bees knees in his underpowered M3 E46 and you give him a good spank. Safe in the knowledge that his BMW was built on a tight budget and your engine wasn't.
15 October 2002, 08:12 PM
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No co55ie I'm not buying a 'cossie' My weekend car eats cossies for breakfast and is still left hungry, AND it goes round corners.
Having trolled this site trying to extol the virtue of the Dagenham dustbin over impreza's/sti's, please tell me you are not trying suggest that said Dagenham Dustbin is better built than a BMW? There was at least the slightest semblance of hope in your former argument
Quick, the underside of your rock is calling you....
My weekend car eats cossies for breakfast and is still left hungry, AND it goes round corners.Having trolled this site trying to extol the virtue of the Dagenham dustbin over impreza's/sti's, please tell me you are not trying suggest that said Dagenham Dustbin is better built than a BMW? There was at least the slightest semblance of hope in your former argument
Quick, the underside of your rock is calling you....
15 October 2002, 08:44 PM
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BMW good quality lmao did you read this in a magazine are you being serious roflmao. Nice recycled plastic dashboards and such great engines. LOL
Don't Cosworth sort out all there top end engines for em. I believe so. Have fun in your german Taxi. I know i will at your expense. Roflmao again at the quality comments. How can a budget car like a BMW be deemed as quality. Oh dear another one suffering from Mondeo syndrome.
Buy an Aston if you want a real motor
[Edited by co55ie - 10/15/2002 8:49:27 PM]
Don't Cosworth sort out all there top end engines for em. I believe so. Have fun in your german Taxi. I know i will at your expense. Roflmao again at the quality comments. How can a budget car like a BMW be deemed as quality. Oh dear another one suffering from Mondeo syndrome.
Buy an Aston if you want a real motor
[Edited by co55ie - 10/15/2002 8:49:27 PM]
16 October 2002, 08:04 AM
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Cosworth don't touch BMW which is probably why BMW engines are some of the best on the planet and don't have to rely on turbos to get performance, I think you are confusing with Audi.
As for recycled plastic dashboards, I can only assume you were sat in your car when you thought of that.
As I said, your rock is calling.....
As for recycled plastic dashboards, I can only assume you were sat in your car when you thought of that.
As I said, your rock is calling.....
16 October 2002, 11:31 AM
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cosworth do touch BMW engines specially the big capacity ones used in the some of 7 series variants. They as you say also do Audi Mercedes, Aston Martin, Bentley, Rolls Royce, Vauxhall allsorts.
16 October 2002, 01:15 PM
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I'll say it again, Cosworth don't touch BMW, never have.
They haven't done anything with Mercedes since the 190 (ie 12+years ago when AMG was brought in house) and have only done Audi in VAG, AND that is 'Cosworth Technology' (ie the part that Audi/VAG bought) and has nothing to do with Cosworth Engineering and the 'Cossah' Daganham Dustbin era.
Cosworth are a great engine fettler, but BMW leave them (and most) standing with engine design/build. Engines and suspension is what BMW engineers are world leaders at, although Audi have just nicked half the suspension team soo expect to see, at long last, some decent handling Audis in a couple of years time.
They haven't done anything with Mercedes since the 190 (ie 12+years ago when AMG was brought in house) and have only done Audi in VAG, AND that is 'Cosworth Technology' (ie the part that Audi/VAG bought) and has nothing to do with Cosworth Engineering and the 'Cossah' Daganham Dustbin era.
Cosworth are a great engine fettler, but BMW leave them (and most) standing with engine design/build. Engines and suspension is what BMW engineers are world leaders at, although Audi have just nicked half the suspension team soo expect to see, at long last, some decent handling Audis in a couple of years time.
16 October 2002, 02:28 PM
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Cosworth do fettle BMW's engines for them that is a fact. They are poorly designed engines using very poor quality castings. BMW are at the back of the queue when it comes to chassis and engine design. Name me a BMW that handles. er there isn't one. The E36 M3 was a grim little machine with its flexy chassis and recycled dashboard.The E46 a step in the right direction. I have had 3 so I believe I am qualified to comment and as I worked at their HQ in Bracknell for 3 years dealing with technical issues I can tell you cosworth most definitely do fettle for them.
Please enlighten me as to what is great about BMW's engine designs ? Even the McClaren F1 only banged out 100bhp per litre good or clever about that ? Nothing.
Do you honestly believe that the new deisels are anything new or exciting ? Or remotely at the cutting edge if you do you are seriously mistaken.
Honda engines are far better built and far more reliable than any BMW, Honda have been at the for front of modern engine engineering for a while now. Other top engines of recent years are Vauxhall/ cosworth 2.0 litre 16 valver and of course the cosworth YB.
BMW produce lazy high capacity engines nothing more, which usually offer appaling outputs for there displacement nothing to write home about at all.
We all know that Ford's Mondeo was a better car than BMW' E36 we all know that Vauxhall's Vectra GSI was a better sporting saloon car than the equivalent BMW so on and so on.
Why do people seem to believe that a budget/mediocre brand like BMW are anything other than budget/mediocre vehicles. Get a grip
[Edited by co55ie - 10/16/2002 3:17:43 PM]
Please enlighten me as to what is great about BMW's engine designs ? Even the McClaren F1 only banged out 100bhp per litre good or clever about that ? Nothing.
Do you honestly believe that the new deisels are anything new or exciting ? Or remotely at the cutting edge if you do you are seriously mistaken.
Honda engines are far better built and far more reliable than any BMW, Honda have been at the for front of modern engine engineering for a while now. Other top engines of recent years are Vauxhall/ cosworth 2.0 litre 16 valver and of course the cosworth YB.
BMW produce lazy high capacity engines nothing more, which usually offer appaling outputs for there displacement nothing to write home about at all.
We all know that Ford's Mondeo was a better car than BMW' E36 we all know that Vauxhall's Vectra GSI was a better sporting saloon car than the equivalent BMW so on and so on.
Why do people seem to believe that a budget/mediocre brand like BMW are anything other than budget/mediocre vehicles. Get a grip
[Edited by co55ie - 10/16/2002 3:17:43 PM]
16 October 2002, 03:29 PM
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OK I'll bite
If you know BMW well, you will know Cosworth have never worked with them. The in house M-Sport division does any fettling. Unless of course Jim O'Donnell is mis-informed?
Which BMW engine do you think Cosworth worked on?Name me one normally aspirated Cosworth fettled engine that manages 100bhp/litre in standard form? For god sake the infamous 2.0 turbo only just gets to 100bhp/litre in standard form. To the best of my knowledge, Honda are the only other engine maker than have a production 100hp/litre+ NA engine.
As for what is special about BMW engines, just think of any of the following, all top of the game in their markets/time
2.3 4-pot M3 Engine
2.5 4- pot M3 Engine
3.2 M3/Z Engine
3.4 M3/Z Engine
Current 3.0 straight six
Old 2.8 straight six
New 3.0 diesel (as in new 7 and X5 215bhp 370lb/ft)
Current 3.0 dissel (as in 3 and 5 series - 188bhp/290lb/ft)
Old 3.5 Straight six
New 3.5 V8
New 4.4 V8
New 4.6 V8
5.0 M5 V8
McLaren F1 Engine
......and thats before getting to motorsport applications.
As for 'lazy high capacity' engines. Name any manufacturer that gets higher output per litre for the higher capacity engines without resorting to forced induction - the real 'lazy' approach!
The BMW diesel technology isn't cutting edge then what is? 3.0 diesel that manages 215bhp and 370lb/ft torque - would give a standard 'cossah' a run for it's money in a straight line AND still give twice the mpg. Sounds pretty advanced to me!
Handling - Am I really going to discuss the merits of a car that handles with a 'cossah' driver?
The original 4-pot M3 is still ranked as one of, if not THE, best handling car ever. The current M3 is likewise without equal in it's market, as is the M5. The X5 is the best on-road handling SUV, the current 5-series still outhandles all more modern rivals, as does the new 7-series. The 3-series is also the amongst the best handling in it's class despite being one of the oldest. In fact only the Z3 and Compact let the side down.
I will agree that the E36 M3 was a bit of a dog for an M-car, but as a top end 3-series, especially in EVO form, still led the market, despite being more 'CSI' than 'M'.
Chassis and engine design remain BMWs stronghold.
*Edited having just seen your revised comments of Vectra/mundano Vs 3-series. Now I know you are a pure troll
[Edited by GaryC - 10/16/2002 3:40:14 PM]
16 October 2002, 06:52 PM
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The 5.0 litre was fettled by cosworth.
Nissan with the skyline and more ecently Misubishi have lead the way in chassis development. But the truth of the matter is that a good well designed chassis really won't need any electronic trickery. The Ford focus also has a superb chassis.
The YB was in fact the first production engine to produce more than 100 bhp per litre which was as low as Cosworth could get it to go and retain drivability as you know its really a 350bhp engine and still the best 2 litre turbo to date.
The Vauxhall 16 valver is regarded as one of the best mormally aspirated engines of recent times outputs of 150bhp per litre are easily attainable.
As you will know BMW had an awful lot of quality issues with there 6 cylinder engines several years ago due to the very poor quality of manufacture.
The E36 range of cars as you say are dogs awful little cars horrid chassis and bland in what ever guise they come in.
What so great about BMW's engine design's Massive capacity and a lazy power delivery. Please be more specific.
I would say that the E30 M3 was the best car BMW have produced looked good handled great and still had such a nice raw edge to it that the modern variants are missing a real drivers car but not a very quick one and a car that was totally over shadowed by ford's cosworth range of cars.
Anyway each to there own if you don't think cosworth have done some magic on any of BMw's engines then your entitled to believe that.
Laugh all you want about the mondeo and vectra comments look back a couple of years and read each and every car magazine tell you the same thing don't dismiss things due to a label thats foolish.
If you wish to believe a certain thing then thats your perogative but as I said in another post we all know Armani jeans really aernt any better than Asda ones.
Nissan with the skyline and more ecently Misubishi have lead the way in chassis development. But the truth of the matter is that a good well designed chassis really won't need any electronic trickery. The Ford focus also has a superb chassis.
The YB was in fact the first production engine to produce more than 100 bhp per litre which was as low as Cosworth could get it to go and retain drivability as you know its really a 350bhp engine and still the best 2 litre turbo to date.
The Vauxhall 16 valver is regarded as one of the best mormally aspirated engines of recent times outputs of 150bhp per litre are easily attainable.
As you will know BMW had an awful lot of quality issues with there 6 cylinder engines several years ago due to the very poor quality of manufacture.
The E36 range of cars as you say are dogs awful little cars horrid chassis and bland in what ever guise they come in.
What so great about BMW's engine design's Massive capacity and a lazy power delivery. Please be more specific.
I would say that the E30 M3 was the best car BMW have produced looked good handled great and still had such a nice raw edge to it that the modern variants are missing a real drivers car but not a very quick one and a car that was totally over shadowed by ford's cosworth range of cars.
Anyway each to there own if you don't think cosworth have done some magic on any of BMw's engines then your entitled to believe that.
Laugh all you want about the mondeo and vectra comments look back a couple of years and read each and every car magazine tell you the same thing don't dismiss things due to a label thats foolish.
If you wish to believe a certain thing then thats your perogative but as I said in another post we all know Armani jeans really aernt any better than Asda ones.
17 October 2002, 08:25 AM
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The 5.0 is an M-Sport engine. Period.
Name any other manufacturers that gets higher output per displacement in 'production spec' engines than BMW overall, WITHOUT going the real lazy route of forced induction.
3.4 straight 6 343 bhp
3.5 V8 280 bhp
4.4 V8 333bhp
4.6 V8 360bhp
5.0 V8 400bhp
...and name anyone other than Honda (or Toyota using ex-honda engineers) that get more than 100bhp/litre with a NA engine?
Just read the Vx 2.0 engine 'best NA engine ever' bit you do know you can still get nicked for smoking grass don't you?
And on what planet are Nissan and Mitsubishi leading the way on chassis design? Leading the way on letting electronically managed AWD/AYC compensate for poor chassis's perhaps don't confuse grip, traction and handling!
I will agree with you that the cosworth lump is still one of the best 2.0 turbo's ever that is about the only element of your argument that holds water.
Name any other manufacturers that gets higher output per displacement in 'production spec' engines than BMW overall, WITHOUT going the real lazy route of forced induction.
3.4 straight 6 343 bhp
3.5 V8 280 bhp
4.4 V8 333bhp
4.6 V8 360bhp
5.0 V8 400bhp
...and name anyone other than Honda (or Toyota using ex-honda engineers) that get more than 100bhp/litre with a NA engine?
Just read the Vx 2.0 engine 'best NA engine ever' bit
you do know you can still get nicked for smoking grass don't you?And on what planet are Nissan and Mitsubishi leading the way on chassis design? Leading the way on letting electronically managed AWD/AYC compensate for poor chassis's perhaps
don't confuse grip, traction and handling!I will agree with you that the cosworth lump is still one of the best 2.0 turbo's ever that is about the only element of your argument that holds water.
17 October 2002, 09:25 AM
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.....oh and forgot to add, the Alpina version of the 1974 BMW 2002 turbo beat 100bhp/litre (just) 10+ years before the 'cossah', and I'm sure the 2002 wasn't the first production car to do so.
17 October 2002, 09:30 AM
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Cossie
A well designed chassis doesn't need alactronic trickery? If the Focus is so good (and I'm not saying it's not) then why is there an ESP version?
I'm told it's even better than the standard.
bros
A well designed chassis doesn't need alactronic trickery? If the Focus is so good (and I'm not saying it's not) then why is there an ESP version?
I'm told it's even better than the standard.
bros
17 October 2002, 01:41 PM
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Gary, you're forgetting (quite justifiably since it's installed in the 318i) the new 2.0 Valvetronic engine, which brilliantly manages to combine great fuel economy with more power and better throttle response, all through the simple expedient of removing the throttle and controlling air flow into the cylinder by varying inlet valve lift.
And I'm not even a BMW lover, just very impressed with their engines. Including the Macca F1's engine - 627bhp from 6.1 litres so 103bhp/litre in fact.
And I'm not even a BMW lover, just very impressed with their engines. Including the Macca F1's engine - 627bhp from 6.1 litres so 103bhp/litre in fact.
17 October 2002, 04:13 PM
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Is it not also amazing given the superb torque delivery of the latest 'double-vanos' BMW engines that they can all boast class leading fuel economy too.
You can have your cake and eat it.
You can have your cake and eat it.
17 October 2002, 06:20 PM
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With regard to McClaren engine. This produces 471lb/ft of torque which equates to 77lb/ft per litre lets compare that to a vauxhall 2.5 this produces 185lb/ft of torque which equates to 74/lb/ft per litre. Someone please tell me whats so great about a huge displacement engine with very average power and torque outputs ?
Gary please name me a better mass produced N/A 2.0 than Vauxhall/cosworth's 16 valver you can't.
Alpina cars LOL
Please tell me whats so great about a brand that pasonifies
mediocrity and pretends to be something its not at the end of the day they are only German Taxi's, with an awful image usually driven by sales reps and unsuccessful company accountants
Gary I am so sorry you really are wrong regarding cosworth and BMW LOL I am sat here looking at the technical information published by BMW regarding this. You have been informed wrongly I am afraid just like rich pon and his manifolds.
[Edited by co55ie - 10/17/2002 6:27:20 PM]
Gary please name me a better mass produced N/A 2.0 than Vauxhall/cosworth's 16 valver you can't.
Alpina cars LOL
Please tell me whats so great about a brand that pasonifies
mediocrity and pretends to be something its not at the end of the day they are only German Taxi's, with an awful image usually driven by sales reps and unsuccessful company accountants
Gary I am so sorry you really are wrong regarding cosworth and BMW LOL I am sat here looking at the technical information published by BMW regarding this. You have been informed wrongly I am afraid just like rich pon and his manifolds.
[Edited by co55ie - 10/17/2002 6:27:20 PM]
17 October 2002, 07:00 PM
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Co55ie,
I've read the comments over the last couple of days, and like Gary I'm keen to view this literature that you supposedly have regarding the Cosworth tuned production BMW engine. I'd be very interested to hear what Cosworths input was/is and how a great engine enhancer like Cosworth is making a BMW engine even better. BTW, I appreciate all Keith Duckworths achievements, so stop that thought right now.
The list of engines on page 1 is clearly not enough to convince you that they might hold a candle to your precious pinto, but to bang on about 100bhp per litre as your main point is a tad foolish. Where is Fords normally aspirated 100 bhp per litre car? Cue some comeback about having to restrict it to 220 bhp. Yawn Why not force induct a BMW 2 litre and see where it ends up. With as much time and effort as Cosworth and Ford have put into the Pinto/YB/etc motor, I suspect that the BMW equivalent would be equally as powerful and somewhat more reliable.
Of course by this stage your about to spout off on BMW engines being pathetic, their interiors being ****e and the fact that they're driven by under-achievers. To a Cossie boy this is about right, after all you do own the best built, fastest, most pant wettingly stunning car in the world. Bet you have an earing and at least one tattoo, and a RallyeSport sunstrip too
For sure the perception of BMW drivers is not ideal. I still get incredulous looks from drivers if I'm polite to them whilst on the road. However, to say that a Ford is better built is cr4p and you know it. It just makes you feel better to say it. Which is fine, really. You just continue, happy in the quality environment that your car affords you with teo of your mates in the car ( why's it always three people BTW? ), and I'll smirk. Problem is that you don't know any better and never will. Open your eyes to that which is around you. You might be in for a surprise.
Before you say same to you fella, I have. I love Cossies, having had two and driven plenty of others. They're great, but sometimes it helps to look outside the Blue bubble.
Matt
I've read the comments over the last couple of days, and like Gary I'm keen to view this literature that you supposedly have regarding the Cosworth tuned production BMW engine. I'd be very interested to hear what Cosworths input was/is and how a great engine enhancer like Cosworth is making a BMW engine even better.
BTW, I appreciate all Keith Duckworths achievements, so stop that thought right now. The list of engines on page 1 is clearly not enough to convince you that they might hold a candle to your precious pinto, but to bang on about 100bhp per litre as your main point is a tad foolish. Where is Fords normally aspirated 100 bhp per litre car? Cue some comeback about having to restrict it to 220 bhp. Yawn Why not force induct a BMW 2 litre and see where it ends up. With as much time and effort as Cosworth and Ford have put into the Pinto/YB/etc motor, I suspect that the BMW equivalent would be equally as powerful and somewhat more reliable.
Of course by this stage your about to spout off on BMW engines being pathetic, their interiors being ****e and the fact that they're driven by under-achievers. To a Cossie boy this is about right, after all you do own the best built, fastest, most pant wettingly stunning car in the world.
Bet you have an earing and at least one tattoo, and a RallyeSport sunstrip too For sure the perception of BMW drivers is not ideal. I still get incredulous looks from drivers if I'm polite to them whilst on the road.
However, to say that a Ford is better built is cr4p and you know it. It just makes you feel better to say it. Which is fine, really. You just continue, happy in the quality environment that your car affords you with teo of your mates in the car ( why's it always three people BTW? ), and I'll smirk. Problem is that you don't know any better and never will. Open your eyes to that which is around you. You might be in for a surprise.Before you say same to you fella, I have. I love Cossies, having had two and driven plenty of others. They're great, but sometimes it helps to look outside the Blue bubble.
Matt
17 October 2002, 07:38 PM
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Did I say ford's were better built but then of course a BMW is better built than an Aston Martin isn't it ?
Please enlighten me on what is so great about huge capacity lazy engines with torque outputs of 77lb/ft per litre ?
Have BMW won over 175 F1 grand prix's ?
So you are saying that the engine of the rather slow BMW M3 E30 was better than the YB?
Are you saying a BMW Z3 is better than an AC Cobra ?
Have BMW ever built a car that can rival a GT40?
Is your BMW engine better than the Ford/cosworth unit in an Aston Martin ?
Dream on show me some evidence of BMW's engine mastery.
Go and work at their HQ for 3 years in the technical Dept then tell me you would still think they are good.
So you are trying to say that the chassis on your diesel rep mobile is as innovative as Ford's Focus RS ?
Did BMW build the Most successful rally car ever made ?
About the only thing that BMW did build was a series of ever increasingly boring cars that come in small medium and large with brake pedals that fall off. Top quality motors. How sad.
I forgot to add i suppose a 318i is better than a Mondeo ST220 too LOL
[Edited by co55ie - 10/17/2002 8:06:50 PM]
Please enlighten me on what is so great about huge capacity lazy engines with torque outputs of 77lb/ft per litre ?
Have BMW won over 175 F1 grand prix's ?
So you are saying that the engine of the rather slow BMW M3 E30 was better than the YB?
Are you saying a BMW Z3 is better than an AC Cobra ?
Have BMW ever built a car that can rival a GT40?
Is your BMW engine better than the Ford/cosworth unit in an Aston Martin ?
Dream on show me some evidence of BMW's engine mastery.
Go and work at their HQ for 3 years in the technical Dept then tell me you would still think they are good.
So you are trying to say that the chassis on your diesel rep mobile is as innovative as Ford's Focus RS ?
Did BMW build the Most successful rally car ever made ?
About the only thing that BMW did build was a series of ever increasingly boring cars that come in small medium and large with brake pedals that fall off. Top quality motors. How sad.
I forgot to add i suppose a 318i is better than a Mondeo ST220 too LOL
[Edited by co55ie - 10/17/2002 8:06:50 PM]
18 October 2002, 01:21 AM
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The budget boys have gone quiet, maybe they have realised they can't get into the decent Ford action 160k will buy you a nice 600bhp Aston but I suppose a 3 series diesel is far superior and lets not forget the under performing M5 barge.
Enjoy your rep mobiles
P.S Can you get Petrol Cars when you reach your sales targets?
Enjoy your rep mobiles
P.S Can you get Petrol Cars when you reach your sales targets?
18 October 2002, 08:34 AM
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Perhaps if you even started to compare like with like someone might take you seriously.
BMW havent won 175 gp's but then they've not been competing for anything like the time Ford has.
Trying to compare a Z3 to a Cobra is ridiculous, totally different price range and target market. What point are you trying to make?
BMW haven't tried to build an equivalent GT40.
Which BMW unit are you misguidedly trying to compare to an Aston's?
Others have pointed out the work BMW does on it's engines. You can spout your figures from the F1 all you like, but at the end of the day real world driving is what matters, and in that most BMW engines excel.
Talking of working in their Technical Dept - where is this proof of Cosworth 'fettling' BMW engines you are so sure you have?
What kind of point are you trying to make comparing, in your words, a diesel repmobile, with a limited edition Focus hot hatch?
BMW don't do rallying.
BMW's maybe boring in you not so humble opinion but they are designed for a purpose, at which they are very good.
Nope a 318 isn't better than an ST220, but it is better than the equivalent Mondeo.
If indeed you ever did work for them, did they sack you by any chance? you seem to have a very blinkered and bitter view.
BMW havent won 175 gp's but then they've not been competing for anything like the time Ford has.
Trying to compare a Z3 to a Cobra is ridiculous, totally different price range and target market. What point are you trying to make?
BMW haven't tried to build an equivalent GT40.
Which BMW unit are you misguidedly trying to compare to an Aston's?
Others have pointed out the work BMW does on it's engines. You can spout your figures from the F1 all you like, but at the end of the day real world driving is what matters, and in that most BMW engines excel.
Talking of working in their Technical Dept - where is this proof of Cosworth 'fettling' BMW engines you are so sure you have?
What kind of point are you trying to make comparing, in your words, a diesel repmobile, with a limited edition Focus hot hatch?
BMW don't do rallying.
BMW's maybe boring in you not so humble opinion but they are designed for a purpose, at which they are very good.
Nope a 318 isn't better than an ST220, but it is better than the equivalent Mondeo.
If indeed you ever did work for them, did they sack you by any chance? you seem to have a very blinkered and bitter view.
18 October 2002, 12:36 PM
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No they didn't sack me !!!!
So then as I said if BMW are such automotive masters then how comes they have no real pedigree .
Even Kia could make a 6litre lazy engine with 77/lb/ft of torque per litre.
Isn't that tragedy Z3 supposed to be a muscle car then in its M form ? A pretty pi55 poor attempt and the butt of so many jokes.
I think it is the BMW owner who thinks his automobile is superior to everything when we all know it is a cheap and cheerful bland car and pound for pound one of the lesser performing vehicles on the market. And the only way to compare is pound for pound. The Mondeo ST220 is better than most of BMW 3 series.
I still want to know why they come in small medium and large such design flair enthusiasm and talent went into every stage.
Damn I forgot Jaguar too. Aernt these mid ranged fords too ?
Seems like its ford who have built the quality motors to me over the years and not BMW.
So then as I said if BMW are such automotive masters then how comes they have no real pedigree .
Even Kia could make a 6litre lazy engine with 77/lb/ft of torque per litre.
Isn't that tragedy Z3 supposed to be a muscle car then in its M form ? A pretty pi55 poor attempt and the butt of so many jokes.
I think it is the BMW owner who thinks his automobile is superior to everything when we all know it is a cheap and cheerful bland car and pound for pound one of the lesser performing vehicles on the market. And the only way to compare is pound for pound. The Mondeo ST220 is better than most of BMW 3 series.
I still want to know why they come in small medium and large such design flair enthusiasm and talent went into every stage.
Damn I forgot Jaguar too. Aernt these mid ranged fords too ?
Seems like its ford who have built the quality motors to me over the years and not BMW.
18 October 2002, 01:50 PM
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What is all this nonsense about torque per litre? All naturally aspirated engines produce about the same peak torque per litre - which is simply based on the efficient burning of the maximum amount of stoichometric fuel/air mixture. What matters is power per litre, and BMW have produced a fair few engines with over 100bhp/litre in NA form (along with Ferrari, Honda and now Toyota only)