camk

Current car due to get chopped in early next year(BMW 523i), its been a great motor and I've zero complaints. However as always looking at whats out there, my wife likes that Off Road Audi A4 wagon thing. Anyone tried it ?
I think A4 looks good and could probably go up to 3 litre(I think), anyone got any experience of these ? Preferably against 5 series. I would offset a bit of the internal space against the hopeful added performance.
Any other options considered but needs to be less than 30 grand and 4 or 5 door and will do about 25k per year. Needs to be EU manufactured so no Scoobs.

Cheers
Cammy

GaryC

Do Audi do an A4 All road in germany? only get the A6 in this country, and it is pretty pointless IMO, better to get a better specc'd A6 Avant.

A4 is nice, but plagued with problems, I would still take a 3-series above it. 330ci Sport comes in less than £30k, or if in Germany and need more space, what about a 330dx (AWD 330d?) Touring? Merc's are nice, but pricey at the £30k level.

Other than that, there is the VW range :/ W8 Passat, well built, and pretty nippy (4.0 8-cyl 300bhp) if a little bland.

Wild card entry, Alfa 166 3.0 V6. I had one for a week, well specc'd, sound beautiful, quick and different. If space not an issue, the 156 GTA is quite a motor as well!

camk

yes I'm sure its an A4 All Road....of course now i'm thinking 'are you sure'.... Its the one that looks liek an A4 but with high set suspension level.

carl

The Volvo that looks like the Audi Allroad might be worth considering. I think it's called the XC.

M3 Evo

Go for the 156 GTA!

camk

mates got the 156 2.5 V6, had a new gearbox and 2 P/Steering pumps in 3 years. I need better reliability. Looks noce in that greeny blue colour but too much hassle

TopBanana

Defintely test drive a 156 GTA. Had one for a day and didn't want to give it back... fuel guzzler though

merkin

Cam,

Audi S4 (estate or saloon) - unless you dont really want that much power, they are great cars, and well well within budget.

GaryC

I had a 156 V6 for 15 months (and did 50000 miles) absolutely faultless, never missed a beat - don't believe the reliability propaganda.

Flat 4x4

CamK

Do I take it that UK CO2 emissions / company car tax don't apply to you then ?!

If you are in Germany it has to be the most powerful diesels you can buy.

- 330d was mentioned - can you get the 330xd with 4x4 ?
- A6 allroad Tdi as mentioned
- A4 TDi Q - have they released the 210bhp version yet? (curr 180)
- The New A6 is one its way also

camk

yes tax is just based on cost of vehicle and km's from home to work. Whats the performance os a 2.5TDI's against say a 2.5 N/a Petrol

camk

just checked out website S4 bombed out as its classed as a Sports car ....3.0 A4 quatrro is on the list though....anyone tried it ? Whats the comparison to a 2.5TDi and a 3L Petrol A4?

cheers
Cammy

GaryC

3.0 A4 Quattro is nice, but 'remote'. Very poor steering feel, and didn't feel particularly quick. On a straight drag by old 330d auto Touring could pull away (slightly).

Only tried a 2.5tdi A6, but the engine is the same as in the new A4, and the engine was the problem, far noiser and 'diesely' than the 330d, and not as powerful (A6 saloon is about same weight as a 330d touring and the A6 was noticeably slower than the 330d) That being said, if they are bringing out a 210bhp version.... but then BMWs new 3-litre oilburner is even more powerful still and will make it's way into the 330d before long

camk

Can just get the A4 Quattro but could also get the non Quattro 3.0 A4 version here as well and lose some weight and add navigation and nicer seats/interior.
525i appears much more expensive now than 523i was and means I may need to drop to 3 series as I really need navigation.
On a Germany/UK view I knew we got a good group discount but I was using the Audi UK site to look at options and we(our lease firm) get approx Euro to Pound pricing on the cars versus the UK retail, which is a bit of a shocker. Big savings.

Cheers
Cammy

Barnaby

I had a late A4 1.8T Sport Quattro a couple of years back.

Everything was great about the car with one exception. Rubbish steering feel and difficult to make slight adjustments to direction (even at 30mph).

If you can live with that (and the later generation cars may well be better) then it is a very nice all-round car.

[Edited by Barnaby - 11/29/2002 12:10:37 PM]

GaryC

Vague steering is (unfortunately) a common and uniform Audi trait

Recent poaching of BMW suspension guru's might change that post 2005 though

The non-Quattro 3.0 A4 is ok, but IMO too powerful for front wheel drive in that car, and exacerbates the vague steering

Flat 4x4

If you are still thinking Audi-on-the-Company, I would certainly choose the 2.5Tdi 180 over the 3.0 petrol. As you are in Germany, you can pop it along to Oettinger, MTM or ABT and they will invisibly re-map / change the ECU for you.

On my 150 TDi A4 Quattro (last shape), I went safely to 179bhp and 285lb/ft torque on the rolling road, and the dealer never made a comment. As the 180 starts at 180 /273, you will end up with power very close to the 3.0 Petrol, and torque a mountain higher !

camk

Can they really chip it invisibly(obviously if they took it on RR it would show), I'd be worried they could look at the ECU and it would look different. The I'd get my stones kicked by Fleet management if the dealer reported it, also it could allow the insurance firm to wangle out if I had a big accident.

Cheers
Cammy

GaryC

The Audi may be different, but even a download (ie 'invisible' reprogram of the ECU) can be detected on BMW diagnostics Hence why I didn't do mine!! The only option is a Van Aaken plug-in. Gives 80% of the increases and can be plugged in (and unplugged) in seconds, and thus can be removed whenever in the dealership - only thing is the fuelling isn't altered so you may get black smoke under full acceleration

Flat 4x4

CamK

I started off with a plug in similar to the Van Aaken (Can Bus) - the figures were good and yes, you have the major advantage of unplugging whenever you want to (servicing, insurance assesor coming round etc- joke).

As Gary said, it did suffer from over-fuelling under heavy throttle from low revs in 4th & 5th, which was the main reason why I started looking around.

As far as Audi is concerned, no comments were made by my dealer and as I had a good relationship with the service people, I'm sure they would have made a nudge nudge " you know you can chip these" kind of comment.

Certainly, AMD's (Bicester) re-mapping service which retains the original ECU is proven to be undetectable by the normal VAG servicing diagnostics kit. One way they could tell is to start examining the boost and fuelling figures, but which dealer is going to do that ?

As with the latest AMG diesel for the Merc hatch, the acceleration potential is excellent. On my Quattro, in a full-bore start, the true 0-60 was tested at 7.3 seconds. OK, not up with my Impreza, but for a diesel who is complaining ?!

hegie

buy your own and charge the company mileage if u can 43 pence first 10k then 23 after

carl

I think you're being ripped off by your company to the tune of 2p per mile, hegie. IR guidelines are 45p for the first 10,000 miles, 25p thereafter.

camk

cannot do it in germany, need to take the allowance then run your own car or take the company one......Still thinking of keeping the 523i though or going for a 3yo 7series.

GaryC

Have to admit I have changed my car buying habit. When I first opted out of the car scheme, I went for a nearly new car, then a new car, then a nearly new car. Doing heavy mileage I always got hit on depreciation, so this time I have paid less and gone older and you get SO much car for your money.

I have just got a Merc ML430 (near-300bhp V8 off roader) that just under 3 years ago was c£45k. Just over 20k on the clock, mint condition from a main dealer..£24k Thats a whole lot of car for the money and I have a dateless plate so no-one knows its nearly 3 years old

I almost bought an 7-series from my wife's boss (his wifes car), 28 months old, 740 (4.4 V8) fully loaded, Sat Nav + DVD + rear headrest TV screens, electrics, 19" Wheels, custom paint and leather, HK stereo etc. 30k on the clock, he would have let me have it for £23k

By going for 3 year old cars, you get SUCH value and some serious car for not serious money

scooby whip

x type Jag 2.5 4WD...smoooth engine, pretty quick and much nicer looking than the German equivalents. Rarer too.

Merc_Cosworth

Seriously recommend the Skoda Octavia vRS - have a go in one, its what the Golf/Bora should have been all along.

And at £15,000 new, you'll get some serious brownie points at work.

camk

OK as always minds can change, Audi now off the cards. I've been looking and BMW 330 xi estate looks like the one. 231 PS which is similar to my STi Wagon was and we get a cheap deal on navi system at the moment. I'll need to arrange a test drive but probably not til Jan now. Anyone driven an xi ?

Regards
Cammy

330dSport

I would have had a 330xd if it was available,they look good once they are lowered,i have a 330d with a TuningBox CR51 which is up to 220bhp from 184 and 324lbs/ft torque,makes quite a difference,the standard 330d 0-60 is 7.8 ,AC Schnitzer claim 7.0 for their 210 bhp,so i don't know how much quicker mine would be,a 330xd would be a good choice with a Tubing Box,but i'm not sure what the 4wd drivetrain can handle.

Kevin Mc

I was going to suggest a Saab 9-5 Aero at £26795 for 250BHP. THere is a 310BHP Hirsch version (Saab approved), though don't think Sweden is in the EU (is it???) Very quick, hugely comfortable and safe, with decent CO2 figures too. May not be relevant on this thread, but all too often Saab is not shortlisted in favour of more expensive BM / Audi metal.

Kevin Mc

Apparently Sweden is in the EU, so the Saab 9-5 Aero can be considered....