chiark

Oh dear, my mum has just ordered a Clio 182 in black and is on for annihilating Scoobs in it. On a hot day, I reckon she'll do it

Very nice looking car, silly amounts of power for front wheel drive, can't wait to have a quick spin in it. 172s can worry a scoob, particularly when you're caught off boost, so it'll be interesting to see what the 182 is like.

Cheers,
Nick.

Arron

Just as well I live no where near your mum then.

Good luck with the Clio my wife has one and it's a gr8 little car.

Arron.

druddle

Good luck with it mate. Lets hope its put together a bit better than the 172. May you have all the luck in the world with the Renault service department...

chiark

I agree that renault servicing is hit and miss. Thankfully, I had a great service with my Clio RSI... The R19 16v that I had was bloody awful, and Renault were useless as it required thought rather than just plugging in the diagnostic computer.

My mum has never had any problems with Renault servicing, and this will be her fifth Renault in a row so fingers are crossed.

I do like the V6... One day I'll look into getting a second hand one just to annoy her

Cheers,
Nick.

Jonto

From what i have heard the 182 is a bit heavier and therefore no quicker than the 172, and slower than a cup.

WRX Wannabe

182 = 0-62 7.1sec

NO worry for the Scooby's (unless in reverse )

R1916v

Yeah cos 0-60 is everything isnt it :P

How quick is a standard cup to 60 compared to a new WRX?

How quick is a standard cup to 100 compared to a new wrx?

TVR Gary

I had a 183BHP clio and she worried wrx's.

This is from todays EVO mag, looks pretty well respected to me

Just got my hands on this...






Unfortunately they're too small to read, so here's the wording from the article >>>


We've been here before, haven't we? The big horsepower claim, the French hot hatch manufacturer, the high hopes, the marketing bad chat: but Peugeot's bid for hot hatch greatness with the 206 GTi 180 ended in mild disappointment. Any chance things might go the same way with Renault's reply to the beefy Pug. the Clio 182? You might well have already guessed the answer, but lets find out if your right.

Lets get the bad news out of the way first, though. There isn't going to be a specific Cup version of the feistiest Clio, no stripped-out trackday special. But hold fire with the despair for now, because we reckon you're still going to end up liking this little Renault.

The changes to the 2004 Clio run a lot deeper than the 182 title suggests. The motor is indeed up on power compared with the outgoing model (the new output is 182ps, which is 179bhp, at 6500rpm), but thats not just down to a bit of judicious chipping. Much of the horsepower hike is due to an extensively revised exhaust system. The 172 used a four into one manifold whilst the 182 employs a 4-2-1 system that improves gas flow. Further down the system, there's a revised metallic catalyst that improves matters further, and the twin tailpipes now emerge with a bit of a gap between them, mimicking those of the Clio V6.

The 182's chassis is similarily more extensively changed than you'd expect. It's wheelbase is slightly longer than the 172's and it also has a wider track. The wheelbase change has come about because of increased castor angle, which is now the same as the Clio Cup racecar's. The rear anti-roll bar is now stiffer and even the suspension mountings have been strengthened to cope with the additional cornering loads. All of which gives a big hint about this car's focus. Springs and dampers have also been reworked.Spring rates are up 10 per cent, whilst dampers are stiffer in compression, softer in rebound - the thinking behind the softer rebound is undoubtedly to improve traction. This attention to mechanical detail is a revelation in an age when many makers resort to electronics to hold a flaky chassistogether.

Now here's the rub. For the Clio 182 you really want, Renault asks you to hand over an extra 200 notes for the 'Cup' chassis option. It's a form of blackmail because if you buy a 182 without it you'll regret it. The option involves a 3mm lower ride height, spring rates up a further 20 per cent at the front and 15 per cent at the rear, and even tricker Michelins.

Michelin rubber has become a key component in the performance of many recent mode\s, aWnougYn'i does'wre downsides; standing water, for instance, in the case of the M3 CSL and cold weather problems on Porsche's Carrera GT. The new Michelin Exalto 2s on the Clio 182, however, are useable all day, every day, allowing the potential of the chassis to be fully exploited, for longer. The combination of the Exalto 2 and the optional 'Cup' chassis is an absolute killer. The headline figures don't do it justice. The 179bhp motor, a 0-60mph of 7.1sec and a 139mph maximum aren't shabby, but you'll not conquer the Civic Type-R or Focus RS in a bar-room contest. Meet one of them out on the road and it'll be an entirely different story...

Chassis details aside, one fundamental advantage the Clio has over all credible opposition is that it's significantly lighter. At 1080kg it's 120kg less weighty than the Civic and undercuts the Focus RS by the best part of 200kg.

Balance-wise the chassis is on the ever-so-slightly-nervous side of neutral. Its relatively light weight and the Michelin tyres mean this Clio changes direction better than any front-wheel-drive car I've ever driven. It adopts that super-aggressive, tarmac-rally-car, flat-cornering patter - bodyroll is virtually non-existent. The brakes have a feel and ability that teaches every other manufacturer, bar Porsche, a lesson in how to stop a car. I had the pads on fire, literally, and yet the brakes refused to fade.

The speed the 182 can carry into a corner is simply phenomenal for a road car, but the ability to drive at this level comes at a price; any driver error now happens at higher velocities than before. It's not that the Clio wants to bite you, it's just that it doesn't suffer fools and you can't feed it mixed messages - once you're committed to a corner, it's best you stay committed.

Despite that slight caveat, Renault has created a driving tool that's everything we all wanted the Peugeot 206 GTI 180 to be. If you're building a hot hatch, this is the new benchmark. Ford and Vauxhall, don't say you haven't been warned! Renault is the new king of asphalt.

In fact, so good is the Clio 182 with the Cup chassis set-up that I feel moved to make a bold statement - I think it's the best hot hatch ever built.


Article by - PhilBennett



SPECIFICATION:

Engine - 4-cyl, 1998cc, 16v
Max power - 179bhp (182ps) @ 6500rpm
Max torque - 148lbft (200nm) @ 5250rpm
Top speed - 139mph [claimed]
0-62mph - 7.1sec [claimed]
Price - £14,613 (Cup options are extra)
On sale - Now
EVO RATING ***** (5 star)


03018VO Pictures: Andy Morgan


This edition of Evo will be on sale from tomorrow apparently...

The_Gza

Saw that on the ClioSport forum

Looks like Phil Bennett quite liked it

ethanjobi

Must agree with chiark there guys,a 172 can worry a scoob
I know,i blew one yesterday in the g/f clio
But it was being driven by a very young/boy racer type,and i dont think he had got the measure of the car,still a beginner......

chiark

Just left a message for me mum - order the Cup suspension option!

I tell you, a 172 will sit right on your ****, especially in twisties, and especially if you're not keeping the turbo at maximum. it's 400 kilos lighter, and power at wheels will be disturbingly similar.

MadMark

My girlfriend has a 52 plate 172 and I had one of the first "X" plate mark1 172's in the country ..... and there is no way that it even gets close to my new shape Scoob - although I do have 260bhp ..... He he he.
- Just stop being silly - the Honda CTR is the only one that gets close ..... Oh and I've had one of those too .....

FrenchBoy

Dont be so sure, I had a W plate 172 and now have 03WRX ppp and to be honest, in a straight line, theres not that much in it.

The cup in particular has a 0-60 of 6.4 secs.

my WRX is supposed to have a 0-60 of 4.8 secs, but it doesn't feel anywhere close to this!

when it comes to cornering however theres no comparison. one of reasons i bought a scoob was because i tried to keep up with one once and he left me for dead over some very long high speed corners.

ADP

all very well, but Its far more down to driver skill than just raw power/having greatest car.............Ive destroyed badly driven Imprezas round many of the UKs circuits in far "slower" cars

rickybouy

I have a cup and can personally vouch that between 60 and 100 the cup would match a standard wrx and in the real world ie overtaking feels as quick but not as safe as a wrx! 4x4 counts for alot specially in this weather!!!

chiark

Frenchboy, I'm surprised the Cup was not up with the scoob "in the twisties". It's about 400KG lighter... It's interesting to hear about the changes to the 182 chassis too, and I wonder how much the improved suspension (or cup suspension) will change the game? Either way, it's probably best finding out the limits on a track, as the grip of the WRX means silly speeds will be involved to find the limits...

ADP, agreed. It's all about skill, and also about driver commitment.

I'll no doubt give you a heads up when it arrives with my mum, as she likes a little spirited drive occasionally.

Cheers,
Nick.

NACRO

Can confirm that a well driven 172 is a match for an Impreza (classic) in the twisties. I was lucky enough to be driving one of the most awesome roads in the world at the weekend (between Jaca and Lleida in Spain). It's an epic mountain road featuring a huge climb/descent on a dual carriageway presumably modelled on a corkscrew. I came across a Clio Sport on the climb and overtook him, as soon as we came to the descent he began to catch up again and was right on the tail of my Impreza until we came across a wet/dry section in the shade when he backed off a bit.
It looked very stable and well within itself in my rear view mirror, good little car just a shame about the bad reputation for reliability and the crap dealers.

chiark

Well, I've just read the article to my mum and dad - many thanks for typing that in. Just phoned my wife and the Grey envelope is sitting at home waiting for me, too

My dad has got onto the garage, and the garage has changed the order to include the cup suspension pack . It has pushed delivery back by a week, but on the other hand the Evo review is so positive that it's the right thing to do. The dealer didn't know the full details of the change, especially the comment about the "tricker michelins", so is currently searching the net to find the article

Renault have been superb (again!) to my parents. Mum was signed up to take a diesel laguna last year, but changed her mind three days later... The garage has once again treated them brilliantly despite being slightly messed around. I'm glad they cancelled the laguna - from Clio RSI to Megane coupe to Megane Cabrio to Laguna diesel was just wrong. The 182 with Cup suspension sounds a much better option

Evo giving it 5 stars out of 5? Bloody hell, they've gone soft

In the wet the AWD will give the impreza an advantage IMHO, but in the dry it'll just sap power unless you're seriously committed, which is probably inappropriate for public roads (*cough*).

Insurance for my parents on the Clio is just under 500 quid, and both drivers are grandparents FFS . IIRC, it's a group 16 car now...

Cheers,
Nick.

FrenchBoy

My 172 was the standard Mk 1, which if you beleive evo mag had a little more grunt than the Mk 2.

I absolutely loved the car. but renault dealers are appalling in general. i had nothing but bad experiences with the 2 i went to. sounds like your mum might be onto a good one, but just see how much they care after you've bought the car!!
its also true what they say about build quality, mine developed a few rattles here and there, but mechanically they're preety sound.

BLACK V5

Why is everyone so keen to compare a clio to an impreza? Ones a 4WD saloon the other`s a FWD hatchback. Its competition are the Focus RS, CTR, Leon cupra R & Alfa GTA. Just an observation but the clio has the least amount of power of all the cars above.

chiark

People like to compare. Look at the kelkoo ads

For me a Clio isn't a practical choice due to the recent addition to the family. However, I did have a semi-hot clio (RSI - 1.8 8v engine) and loved it, and part of me would hanker after another one... Especially if the handling is better than it was.

There's not many cars that get 5 stars in Evo. The 03 WRX didn't. But that doesn't matter unless you're into top trumps or like pub talk. it's a genuinely great car that is a hell of a lot cheaper to run than the Impreza, and is a true performance bargain IMHO. Just like the Impreza is.

My car is an AWD hatchback: I've got an 03 WRX Wagon . It's not that far away. People here do consider the Focus RS to be competition to the scoob for some reason and discount the Clio on the grounds that its French and a hot hatch.

The point, if there was one, was to see what people thought of the Clio and note that they really can surprise the few Scoob owners who, for some reason, seem to think their cars are the fastest things on four wheels . I think people will be surprised. Especially when driven by a slightly manic Grannie who no doubt will have some sort of cat paraphenalia danging from the car. (If she reads this, I'm written out of the will )

Cheers,
nick.

FrenchBoy

Its not all about raw power figures.
The real test is bhp/ton, as the clio is quite light its bhp/ton figure is preety comaprable to all of the above cars (particularly the cup version which is very light).

Jolley

The difference is that my 172 was in the Renault dealer for 5 whole weeks in 12 months, and all for the same fault that still wasn't corrected even by the time I traded it in.

Yeah, it was a great fun car when bits were not falling off of it, but that did happen far too much! ........so far no problems with the Scooby (03MY WRX).

(add to that that my loan is only £40 a month more, and the insurance only £10 a month more, and I really see no reason to own a clio!)

Tim-Grove

Whats the diffence in fuel??

Scoobydick

Yes agree also.....


.......it worrys me that the hairdresser owner might get out and try to bum me

chiark

It's a known fact that hairdressers drive/lust after TTs and MX5s, not rapid Clios. Or homophobic scooby owners

BTW, I think you're quite safe as far as my mother is concerned

R1916v

Er it beats a standard WRX 60-100, just look at the figures form an Evo test.

Blob eye WRX - 18.3 secs
Clio Cup - 17.7 secs

But they also say the scooby does the 1/4 in 14.9 (91mph), the clio in 15.2 (94mph) so guess they are pretty even.

And this is as tested, not just figures they got from a book. the clio starts bettering the scooby after 80 (have a list of all the 0-x0 timings, the focus hits 100 in 14.9).

also got figures for in gear accel 3rd/4th/5th, but thats just too geeky

Having said that, out of the two i'd probably take the scooby (if the price difference didnt matter, remember the cups could be had fo runder 11k new, thats a hell of a price difference).

Veracocha

And the least amount of weight.

lockwood77

"...this Clio changes direction better than any front-wheel-drive car I've ever driven."

Presumably he's never driven a DC2 ITR then. Best FWD car ever built bar none, including the DC5 sadly.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Best in YOUR opinion, like the 182 is the best in the authors opinion...