PAV99

Hi

First post here......(so take it easy, ok)

I've been toying with the idea of buying a Cooper S with the John Cooper Works conversion (driven one, it's a hoot), but just as I thought I'd made up my mind and was readying to part with my cash I read Evo's review of the Clio 182 (see another thread).

Which to go for and why?
Mini - should be better quality, very strong residually, pretty good looking, but pricey (about £19k new with a/c and CD, glove compartment, servcing pack.)

Clio - A bit more tinny, but quite a bit more practical (as in it has a boot and useable rear seats), nowhere near as good looking but cheaper (by about £6k I reckon, even with the Cup handling pack) and with a lot more kit.

Also, we've got our first little one on the way, so the Clio would give us an alternative to using my wife's car all the time.

I haven't driven a Clio yet, but I doubt a short test drive will help me to anyway. That's why I'm asking you guys.....

Thoughts?

Thanks

Paul

PAV99

Head = Clio
Heart = Mini

TBH I'm still swaying towards the Mini.

chiark

The mini may have better residuals, however there's not a lot of room in the back despite it being a big car. The S Works is a bit more expensive isn't it, and to be honest that'd probably put me off especially coupled with the Evo review. The clio is quite roomy in the back...

If you've got a new addition on the way, having a 4 door car makes things a LOT easier - my wife's got a 3 door Clio and getting seats in and out is "fun", for a given value of "fun". If you haven't got a 4/5 door then I'd really think seriously about that one... Our son is only 4 months old, but the Scoob is seeing a lot more travelling with the three of us whenever its around, as the Clio is a bit more hassle.

If you're still set on one of those two, and are not interested in something like a Seat Leon 5 door, then drive both, they are apparently very different animals.

I'd go for the Clio personally, but that's merely down to cost and prejudice - I like Renaults. Either way, take a test drive, work out the finances, check the 3 door issue and size of the Mini, and vote with the wallet

Cheers,
Nick.

PAV99

Thanks Nick.

My wife has an A class so that can be our "family mobile" (for now, at least). 4 door side of things covered.

BTW that was the price of a Works S with minimal options in case there was any doubt.

It's definitely going to be one of those two.

I really should arrange to test drive a 182......

druddle

If you go for the Clio be prepared for a level of service from the dealer that is lower than a rattlesnakes belly....

Jolley

I second that. I mentioned on another thread that my 172 was in the dealer for 5 weeks in 12 months trying to sort out 1 problem. They didn't solve it, and they were also lying to me (i.e. giving it back and telling me they couldn't find anything, but they had just tightened a few bolts to make sure.... then find out 6 months later through a new service manager that they had been replacing gearbox and engine mounts!!).

Also, serviscing on the Clio is pretty steep, whereas with the "MINI tlc" package you get five years of servicing for £100 (covers standard servicing parts and labour).... bit of a bargain in my books!!

chiark

Ah, I'd assumed that the MINI servicing would be more expensive! Just goes to show

A class is definitely the sensible motor - nice choice!

6K extra for the MINI is an absolute shedload of money - 20 grand for a hot hatch is IMHO stupid money . You could get a real car

My family and I have never had a problem with Renault servicing, but it does seem that I am in the minority. We *always* use the smaller Renault dealer/outlets as their service does seem more personal than the huge places. I've picked up parts from Renault Leeds, and had them fitted by another full Renault dealer before now...

I would discount the MINI as it's just too bloody expensive, but that's just me

Jolley

Or how about "just" the Cooper S (isn't it a good couple of grand cheaper than the Works?).

white scooby

get a standard cooper s . . theres plenty of companies doing upgrades for them if you want the 200bhp+ for alot less money than the works pack!

wilf

I'd go for the clio. Better still pick up a Late reg Cup or 172 for 11k and treat yourself with the change.

Having driven both Mini (not works) and Clio Cup extensively I reckon the Clio is the more fun drive by a long shot in most conditions. Its lighter and perkier and more characterful. However it doesnt have the quality/solidity of the Mini and is much more ragged when you really push it.

Some Clios have been pretty unreliable - others seem okay (Mines been 100% reliable after 14k). 40mpg on optimax is pretty common on the daily commute in the Cup and spares are pretty cheap (servicing isnt though).

PS my post is completely biased as I really rate my Cup - in fact I prefer it to the 3 scoobs I owned previously.

Ricky

Definately the John Cooper Works, or again if you would prefer to save a little money you can go for the standard s and do your own tuning. That sacrifices the warranty though.

The three main reasons for my choice are :

* Its just so much fun to drive.
* Residual values are unbelievely excellent
* The £100 TLC servicing pack means no servicing headaches for 5 years. How can any other car compare to that....

The mini is the ONLY choice IMHO !

Health to drive either of the two !

Ricky !

NW_Mark

Having never driven either of them this reply doesnt have much behind it, id prefer the Mini but that is a big difference in price.

Mark

p.s. you could get a cracking mineral grey S3 for a couple of K less than the mini cooper works :-P

PAV99

Alright Mark. Done the S3 thing before - fancy something different. Lovely car indeed though!

OK, Clio 182 test drive booked for next week. It doesn't have that initial "want one" effect on me like the mini does as a package, but the drive *could* change everything.

My wife (disclaimer) reckons the mini has much less of a "boy racer" look having seen pictures of both. Comments were also made on the wheelbarrow-like placement of the twin exhausts on the 182.

Lucky to have the choice of 2 such fantastic motors!
If I could borrow each for a day it would probably help make up my mind, but that's doubtful I suppose.

Thanks for the replies so far.

apjames

Having driven both a Cooper S and a 172, The Mini has far more character, sounds better, feels more solid, steers better and is generally more fun.

The Clio feels like a bigger car. It certainly goes - revving quicker than the mini, but the relationship between the driver, steering wheel and the pedals is awful.

I bought a Cooper S and don't regret it. Had a Golf 1.8T before and the Clio felt too 'normal' and the image is a little more boy racer.

FrenchBoy

I used to have a mark 1 Clio 172 and i have also driven a std cooper s.
I
MHO the Cooper S prob handles slightly better, it feels more instantly chuckable, but in terms of sheer pace/straight line grunt, it feels like you've left the handbrake on compared to the Clio.

If you really are prepared to spend nearly 20k on a works Cooper S (hideously overpriced IMHO) have you not thought about a WRX? Plenty of room for the kiddies and outhandles either of them.

The only real difference in cost is the fuel. My 172 would never do anything less than 32mpg (no matter how hard i thrashed it)comapred to the rather frightfull 22mpg (at best) i seem to be getting from my 03WRXppp.
The mpg on the Mini is also quite poor compared to the Clio (despite only being a 1.6 - forced induction is always heavy on fuel)

Again I would agree with everyone else's comments about Renault dealers. They are a nest of bloodsucking, spirit crushing vipers!

But for the price - pound for pound - I think the 172/182 is the best hot hatch out there! (and thats not just cause i'm french either!)

Dul

Ermm, difficult choice!
I’ve driven a Clio 172 and a Cooper S (not JCW). The handling of the Mini is really superb and it looks very nice but that’s it. The engine does not really push and at the end it is not really exceptional for the price.
The Clio is very capable. Has a good comportment, is quite civilized and comfortable to be driven every day and at the end it is very “efficient”.

Well what about a 206 RC or a CTR then?

Cheers!

PAV99

Know what you mean about a lack of grunt on the standard S, and for me that'd be the point of the JCW conversion (although if I go for a Mini, I may go standard to start with and see how I feel a few months down the line as it will make little / no difference to the eventual cost).

One of the things I'm looking for in my new motor is that it should be good fun to drive at low speed (as well as when you're gunning it, obviously) - I've had plenty of quick cars in the past, but I have found that in many of them (eg the S3 I'm selling) I'm usually in licence-losing territory before the feel good factor really kicks in. I've had points on my licence before, and want to avoid any more, so I tend either not to have as much fun or to be constantly looking over my shoulder. With cars like the mini and clio around I don't think things have to be this way.

I don't mind spending the £19K on the mini as residually it will hold it's own. WRX ain't for me - don't like the look I'm afraid. However, in the practicality stakes it does undoubtedly represent hugely better VFM and is a great all rounder.

CTR look hideous to my eyes, facelift better but still not my cuppa.
What's a 206 RC? GTi 180?

If I only had a £13K budget I don't think we would be having this thread - the 182 would already have won.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Another vote for the Clio here...

zoog

Get a clio cup nearly new.

Brendan Hughes

205 GTI Mi16 and bank 10 grand

PAV99

The Clio's just in the lead on this thread at the moment.

FrenchBoy

Go on do it...you know it makes sense!!!

The_Gza

Another vote for the Cup then

90% as rapid as my Impreza and literally 30% of the costs. Regarding the dealers - there are some good ones out there - you've just got to find them first!

Buy mine for 50% of the cash you were looking at spending on a MCS and be quids in

Gary VR6

I'm another Clio Cup fan, having had one for nearly a year now. Had £16k, wanted a scooby or CTR, spent £11k on the Cup and I've not looked back. Drive one, be open minded, and be prepared to be impressed. Oh, and hang on to the steering wheel with both hands, too.

workshy_fopp

The car brokers on t'internet are doing the 182 clio for £12,199 - so over 2 grand off list already, but does anyone pay full price for a Renault? I'd buy the standard Cooper S, with chilli pack it's 16k and the tlc package on the Mini is a big plus - 5 years servicing on a car with a supercharger - for a hundred quid - are they mental?
I've driven both with gusto (172 Clio), and I'd have the Mini anytime. Just don't go too wild on the options list