Cup + zorst + filter + chip = 14.5s 0-100mph??
#1
Cup + zorst + filter + chip = 14.5s 0-100mph??
I've been having a friendly debate with some of the clio cup guys about the performance of modded cups This is the main section of debate for anyone that is interested
Basically the general claim is that a clio cup with its rear seats, spare, etc removed with a exhaust system, filter and r-sport chip can hit 100mph from standstill in 14.5s!! Now on an N/A car I can't see those mods giving more than 15-20bhp at the very most yet this improvement by 8-10% of the standard power of the car is cutting 0-100mph from 17.7s to 14.5s Thats 3.2s faster!!! In impreza terms thats taking a UK car and getting it down to 11.7s 0-100mph which I feel cannot be achieved with less than 315bhp which is a massive 100bhp or 47% improvement!
Now I know the cup is lighter and therefore every ponnie added counts more than it would on a scooby but surely these simple mods cannot take THAT much time from its 0-100mph time. Thoughts, comments
P.S. I'm not asking anyone to go to clio sport bashing - I just want to discuss the merits of such improvement from so little mods
Basically the general claim is that a clio cup with its rear seats, spare, etc removed with a exhaust system, filter and r-sport chip can hit 100mph from standstill in 14.5s!! Now on an N/A car I can't see those mods giving more than 15-20bhp at the very most yet this improvement by 8-10% of the standard power of the car is cutting 0-100mph from 17.7s to 14.5s Thats 3.2s faster!!! In impreza terms thats taking a UK car and getting it down to 11.7s 0-100mph which I feel cannot be achieved with less than 315bhp which is a massive 100bhp or 47% improvement!
Now I know the cup is lighter and therefore every ponnie added counts more than it would on a scooby but surely these simple mods cannot take THAT much time from its 0-100mph time. Thoughts, comments
P.S. I'm not asking anyone to go to clio sport bashing - I just want to discuss the merits of such improvement from so little mods
#2
Having read the post it seems as if what happend initially could well be true....... one thing i have noticed that makes a HUGE difference to Subaru's is changing gear at the right time take it to the limiter and you've lost all you torque change early and the speed flies up.
However I too cant believe that by carrying out those 'small' mods 2+ secs can come OFF a 0-100 time
Interesting debate saxo boy
keep the subaru end up wont u
hawk
However I too cant believe that by carrying out those 'small' mods 2+ secs can come OFF a 0-100 time
Interesting debate saxo boy
keep the subaru end up wont u
hawk
#3
I'd actually forgotten what the **** the original post was about - lol I've given up arguing the scooby v's cup thing because it really depends on 'which' scooby.
Two brothers from Scumfermline (Bluenose 172 & Frazer from this site - they'll be a long shortly ) are going to have a go at each other soon. Blue has a standard P1 and Fraze a cup with r-sport, filter, zorst, etc. We've discussed what will happen from a rolling start on MSN but I personally think Frazer (real name Neil) is going to get put firmly in his place Assuming Paul has figured out how to drive his new toy Even from 60-100mph I can't see a breathing mods cup staying with a P1!
Two brothers from Scumfermline (Bluenose 172 & Frazer from this site - they'll be a long shortly ) are going to have a go at each other soon. Blue has a standard P1 and Fraze a cup with r-sport, filter, zorst, etc. We've discussed what will happen from a rolling start on MSN but I personally think Frazer (real name Neil) is going to get put firmly in his place Assuming Paul has figured out how to drive his new toy Even from 60-100mph I can't see a breathing mods cup staying with a P1!
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#12
With spare wheel, seat etc removed you'll save under 5% of the weight of the car ... might save you three-tenths but not 3 seconds.
Even with a good CAI, zorst and chip you'd be lucky to get a jen-yoo-wine extra 20bhp on a normally aspirated car ... the Aussie online mag Autospeed has done a LOT of back-to-back dyno tests on Honda VTEC mills etc and they usually get less than this from quite extensive (and costly) upgrades. 20bhp does not equal 3 seconds ...
But as said above, an experienced driver powershifting at EXACTLY the right points could easily be a second or more quicker than a typical driver.
Did the Clio Cup lads mention the JATO booster rocket in the boot?
Even with a good CAI, zorst and chip you'd be lucky to get a jen-yoo-wine extra 20bhp on a normally aspirated car ... the Aussie online mag Autospeed has done a LOT of back-to-back dyno tests on Honda VTEC mills etc and they usually get less than this from quite extensive (and costly) upgrades. 20bhp does not equal 3 seconds ...
But as said above, an experienced driver powershifting at EXACTLY the right points could easily be a second or more quicker than a typical driver.
Did the Clio Cup lads mention the JATO booster rocket in the boot?
#17
Depends what 0-100 times you start with: Autocar tested the Clio Cup at 0-100 in 16.9 seconds. This is only 0.3 seconds slower to the ton than a MY99 classic uk turbo as tested in one of Autocar's 0-100-0 issues.
The P1 will pull away - owned both cars together and done a comparison before.
The P1 will pull away - owned both cars together and done a comparison before.
#18
I reckon it would probably be about right ...... Its a hell of a car in standard form hitting 60 in 6.6 seconds (ish), cant remember the gearing but I would think it would hit 100MPH in third. The weight difference would make quite a difference as well.
My old 172 with 183BHP was a quick free reving car so yeah I can believe it
My old 172 with 183BHP was a quick free reving car so yeah I can believe it
#19
So basically gutmann you are saying that adding a zorst, chip and filter to a cup will have it beating a standard UK classic impreza to 100mph starting at 60mph by about 1s! Thats a few car lengths???? Uh-huh
#20
Scooby Regular
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From: astra 1.9ctdi with dtuk green box. 195/300
Ever since we got our hands on a Sport 172 back in 1999, Renaultsport’s piping-hot front-drive Clio has been a firm favourite at Autocar. Prodigious speed, bags of grip and an adjustable chassis gave it a place in our hearts alongside the Peugeot 205 GTi. And we liked the stripped-out Cup version even more – enough to pick it over the £1500 costlier Mini Cooper S.
Delve a little more deeply into tradition, and it's not difficult to find hot Clios of worthy mettle. The Clio Williams line included a succession of hot hatches leading back to a 1993 original that was blisteringly quick, handled sweetly, and with its gold alloys and blue dials, was a superb-looking car to boot. If you're insurance broker baulked at the prospect of a group 17 rating, there was also the less-well-known Clio 16v - a more ordinarily-styled hatch that would run the hotter Williams surprisingly close on performance.
Look below that, and you'd find a 1.8-litre Clio RSi that, for its slightly tamer pace, still proved a real livewire; we rated it more higly than better known rivals like the Ford Fiesta XR2i, Peugeot 106 XSi, Citroën AX GTi and Vauxhall Corsa GSi.
From the outside, the 182 is identifiable by a new front bumper, centre tailpipes and eight-spoke, 16in alloys. The test car also came with optional stripes, which either add or detract from the looks, depending on your point of view.
Power is from the familiar 1998cc dohc four, with power fed to the front wheels through a five-speed gearbox. The extra 10bhp, taking the total to 180bhp (182ps), comes courtesy of changes to the exhaust manifold and a new metallic catalyst. Torque is unchanged at 148lb ft, but arrives 150rpm lower at 5250rpm.
The suspension retains the 172’s MacPherson strut front/beam axle rear set-up but, in an effort to make it even more sure-footed, Renault has widened the tracks (by 12mm at the front and 16mm at the rear), lengthened the wheelbase by 13mm, revised and strengthened the front suspension, added stiffer springs and anti-roll bars and a set of Michelin Exalto 2 tyres developed specially for the 182. Opt for the £200 Cup suspension fitted to our car and you get a lower ride height – a whole 3mm lower – even firmer springs and a tasty gunmetal finish to the alloys, which feature the same tyres but with stiffer sidewalls.
Clio 182 gets stripes from 60s Renault Gordini
Despite weighing 111kg more than the Cup, the 1090kg 182’s extra traction helps it scorch to 60mph in 6.3sec, 0.2sec quicker, and at 17.0sec to 100mph, it trails the Cup by a mere 0.1sec. More importantly, that means it blitzes the Mini Cooper S (7.6/21.9sec) and even shades the £18k Cooper S Works (6.8/17.2sec).
It’s the same story from 30-70mph, which the Clio dispatches in just 5.8sec – 1.4sec quicker than the Cooper S. These figures are on a par with the now defunct Ford Focus RS, and the only front-drive hatches that will out-pace the little Clio are the 250bhp, £22,750, Alfa Romeo 147 GTA and the 182’s big brother, the 222bhp, £19,500 Mégane RS, which goes on sale in May.
The biggest joy is how the power is delivered, with all the classic fizz-bang of hot hatches of old. Eighty per cent of the car's torque is available from 2000rpm; on the move it’s hugely flexible, pulling from 50-70mph in fourth gear in 5.6sec – nearly 2.0sec quicker than the Cooper S – and you rarely need to change from fifth on the motorway.
Fine go is accompanied by equally fine stoppers, which haul the Clio from 70-0mph in 48.6m and offer good feel and exceptional resistance to fade.
Renault has increased castor angle (up to the same three degrees as in the Cup) which gives better steering feel, and the combination of stiffer front suspension mountings and those new tyres endow the 182 with breathtakingly sharp turn-in. The hydraulic power steering is well-weighted and provides substantially more feel than the electric systems that are becoming the supermini norm.
In the dry, front-end grip is vast and understeer all but non-existent – the Clio’s playful chassis allowing you to adjust its attitude almost entirely on the throttle. In the wet, the previously unobtrusive ESP becomes rather more noticeable as it fights to keep the front wheels from spinning away the power.
Unfortunately, the performance is not matched by Mini-like refinement. At idle the motor is lumpy and at speed things get really noisy, with a combination of ringing from the tyres and the booming engine – this is a car that cries out for a slick six-speed ’box.
Inside, Renault has worked hard to make the cabin a classy place. It lacks the Mini’s charm, but the soft-touch plastics, handsome leather and Alcantara trim and smattering of Renaultsport logos give an appropriately sporty flavour. Extra trim can’t, however, disguise the ageing Clio’s roots and poor detailing. The small buttons on the optional sat-nav, weak sound-deadening and relays that click loudly every time you use the windows or wipers are unimpressive in a £15k car.
Even worse, the driving position – long a Clio failing – remains poor. With the wheel angled away from the driver and a lofty seating position with insufficient back support, it’s difficult to get comfortable, and that can rob you of confidence when driving quickly.
At the same £14,613 as the outgoing 172, the 182 is competitively priced and pitched directly at the £14,605 Cooper S. While the Mini has the cachet, the edge on build quality and arguably greater desirability, the Clio has the pace to leave the Cooper in its wake and offers a wealth of kit. The standard climate control, CD player, leather trim and alarm would set you back an extra £2070 on the Mini.
But perhaps most importantly, the Clio offers more fun. It may lack refinement, not to mention a decent driving position, but this is a hot hatch in the classic vein, mating diminutive proportions and agility with sports-car shaming grip and performance.
Delve a little more deeply into tradition, and it's not difficult to find hot Clios of worthy mettle. The Clio Williams line included a succession of hot hatches leading back to a 1993 original that was blisteringly quick, handled sweetly, and with its gold alloys and blue dials, was a superb-looking car to boot. If you're insurance broker baulked at the prospect of a group 17 rating, there was also the less-well-known Clio 16v - a more ordinarily-styled hatch that would run the hotter Williams surprisingly close on performance.
Look below that, and you'd find a 1.8-litre Clio RSi that, for its slightly tamer pace, still proved a real livewire; we rated it more higly than better known rivals like the Ford Fiesta XR2i, Peugeot 106 XSi, Citroën AX GTi and Vauxhall Corsa GSi.
From the outside, the 182 is identifiable by a new front bumper, centre tailpipes and eight-spoke, 16in alloys. The test car also came with optional stripes, which either add or detract from the looks, depending on your point of view.
Power is from the familiar 1998cc dohc four, with power fed to the front wheels through a five-speed gearbox. The extra 10bhp, taking the total to 180bhp (182ps), comes courtesy of changes to the exhaust manifold and a new metallic catalyst. Torque is unchanged at 148lb ft, but arrives 150rpm lower at 5250rpm.
The suspension retains the 172’s MacPherson strut front/beam axle rear set-up but, in an effort to make it even more sure-footed, Renault has widened the tracks (by 12mm at the front and 16mm at the rear), lengthened the wheelbase by 13mm, revised and strengthened the front suspension, added stiffer springs and anti-roll bars and a set of Michelin Exalto 2 tyres developed specially for the 182. Opt for the £200 Cup suspension fitted to our car and you get a lower ride height – a whole 3mm lower – even firmer springs and a tasty gunmetal finish to the alloys, which feature the same tyres but with stiffer sidewalls.
Clio 182 gets stripes from 60s Renault Gordini
Despite weighing 111kg more than the Cup, the 1090kg 182’s extra traction helps it scorch to 60mph in 6.3sec, 0.2sec quicker, and at 17.0sec to 100mph, it trails the Cup by a mere 0.1sec. More importantly, that means it blitzes the Mini Cooper S (7.6/21.9sec) and even shades the £18k Cooper S Works (6.8/17.2sec).
It’s the same story from 30-70mph, which the Clio dispatches in just 5.8sec – 1.4sec quicker than the Cooper S. These figures are on a par with the now defunct Ford Focus RS, and the only front-drive hatches that will out-pace the little Clio are the 250bhp, £22,750, Alfa Romeo 147 GTA and the 182’s big brother, the 222bhp, £19,500 Mégane RS, which goes on sale in May.
The biggest joy is how the power is delivered, with all the classic fizz-bang of hot hatches of old. Eighty per cent of the car's torque is available from 2000rpm; on the move it’s hugely flexible, pulling from 50-70mph in fourth gear in 5.6sec – nearly 2.0sec quicker than the Cooper S – and you rarely need to change from fifth on the motorway.
Fine go is accompanied by equally fine stoppers, which haul the Clio from 70-0mph in 48.6m and offer good feel and exceptional resistance to fade.
Renault has increased castor angle (up to the same three degrees as in the Cup) which gives better steering feel, and the combination of stiffer front suspension mountings and those new tyres endow the 182 with breathtakingly sharp turn-in. The hydraulic power steering is well-weighted and provides substantially more feel than the electric systems that are becoming the supermini norm.
In the dry, front-end grip is vast and understeer all but non-existent – the Clio’s playful chassis allowing you to adjust its attitude almost entirely on the throttle. In the wet, the previously unobtrusive ESP becomes rather more noticeable as it fights to keep the front wheels from spinning away the power.
Unfortunately, the performance is not matched by Mini-like refinement. At idle the motor is lumpy and at speed things get really noisy, with a combination of ringing from the tyres and the booming engine – this is a car that cries out for a slick six-speed ’box.
Inside, Renault has worked hard to make the cabin a classy place. It lacks the Mini’s charm, but the soft-touch plastics, handsome leather and Alcantara trim and smattering of Renaultsport logos give an appropriately sporty flavour. Extra trim can’t, however, disguise the ageing Clio’s roots and poor detailing. The small buttons on the optional sat-nav, weak sound-deadening and relays that click loudly every time you use the windows or wipers are unimpressive in a £15k car.
Even worse, the driving position – long a Clio failing – remains poor. With the wheel angled away from the driver and a lofty seating position with insufficient back support, it’s difficult to get comfortable, and that can rob you of confidence when driving quickly.
At the same £14,613 as the outgoing 172, the 182 is competitively priced and pitched directly at the £14,605 Cooper S. While the Mini has the cachet, the edge on build quality and arguably greater desirability, the Clio has the pace to leave the Cooper in its wake and offers a wealth of kit. The standard climate control, CD player, leather trim and alarm would set you back an extra £2070 on the Mini.
But perhaps most importantly, the Clio offers more fun. It may lack refinement, not to mention a decent driving position, but this is a hot hatch in the classic vein, mating diminutive proportions and agility with sports-car shaming grip and performance.
dave
#21
Im a regular Cliosprt forum user, and an ex 172 owner which was a great car and very nippy. Thing is there’s a lot of people on that forum who just cant except the fact that a Scooby WILL beat a Cup, I think a few over hyped car mag reviews have gave them a touch of swell head.
#22
Good write up I don't doubt the cup or 182 as fantastic cars for the money. In fact as you may recall I tried to talk some cup owners into a swap for my scooby. I just doubt that they are hitting 100mph in 14.5s from simple mods!
#23
Saxo,
My old 183 Clio would easily sit behind new age WRX's on a straight piece of road. The cup being lighter would be more than a match for one, of that im sure. The zorst etc would probably give him around 190 - 195BHP with the weight lose as well that is gonna make for a very quick little car. The V6 clio does 0-100 in 15.8 and I believe the cup in standard form is only a couple of tenths off of that as standard. The extra gee gees and weight loose would make it pretty competitive i reckon. However the time you say is pretty quick. I wonder what his 1/4 mile would be?
My old 183 Clio would easily sit behind new age WRX's on a straight piece of road. The cup being lighter would be more than a match for one, of that im sure. The zorst etc would probably give him around 190 - 195BHP with the weight lose as well that is gonna make for a very quick little car. The V6 clio does 0-100 in 15.8 and I believe the cup in standard form is only a couple of tenths off of that as standard. The extra gee gees and weight loose would make it pretty competitive i reckon. However the time you say is pretty quick. I wonder what his 1/4 mile would be?
#24
The 14.5s 0-100 time is extrapolated from a 1/4m time of 14.1s @ 97.5mph - I have suggested the time or more likely the terminal is out a little but its fallen on deaf ears. With 0-100mph in 14.5s a cup would be staying with a P1 from a rolling start which is the claim and frankly not going to happen IMHO. The new age WRXs are defo fair game you'll get no argument there but a 275bhp P1??? Come on??
#25
I reckon it would give the UK classic a good run yeah. Uk classic is 207 BHP and four wheel drive and pretty heavy.......Cup in this guise is around 190BHP and weighs as much as a *** packet. So yeah I reckon it would worry if not beat the classic...It may not do it by a second but I reckon it would probably beat it.
Not sure what an R sport chip is either, we may be doing the car an injustice. It may be more powerfull still?
Oh and 14.5 seconds 0-100 is lotus elise 111 S speed and that is a light weight car with only 143BHP. So why cant a light weight 190BHP car acheive it?
Not sure what an R sport chip is either, we may be doing the car an injustice. It may be more powerfull still?
Oh and 14.5 seconds 0-100 is lotus elise 111 S speed and that is a light weight car with only 143BHP. So why cant a light weight 190BHP car acheive it?
Last edited by Gutmann pug; 24 March 2004 at 09:12 PM.
#26
The r-sport chip basically makes it more driveable. An exhaust, filter and chip isn't going to do much more than add 20bhp MAX!! Yes a cup with 20bhp over standard will probably stay with a standard classic when rolling but I still can't see it beating it by 0.5s to a ton.
#27
You may be right mate but I remember watching the Cup run at Combe on Rally day and **** me it was quick........The standard car is about 970KG from memory, so if you strip another 50KG out and have a thin driver thats alot of power in a light car. Hence why the Elise is so good with only 120BHP (early ones anyway)
I know I would never underestimate one on the roads. The other halves 172 takes some catching once it gets going let me tell ya
Anyway her in doors is moaning about me spending my life on here so time to chill out watching house crap on the telly .....
cya mate have a good evening.
I know I would never underestimate one on the roads. The other halves 172 takes some catching once it gets going let me tell ya
Anyway her in doors is moaning about me spending my life on here so time to chill out watching house crap on the telly .....
cya mate have a good evening.
#30
Yeah I can accept that no problem R1916v but the bugeye was taking about 17.9s from memory! even if the cup with those mods could then beat it by a full 2 seconds its still only giving the cup a 0-100mph time of 15.9s which is a) very good but b) a far cry from 14.5s!!