Dream Weaver

Had fun on Monday in the 205 up at Elvington, but it was having problems with the heat, and the smokey oil burning Mi16 lump was really struggling, and never really felt as quick as it has done in the past.

I have been trying to get costs for a rebuild for the last few months and finally have some figures in.

For £2000 I can have a full strip down rebuild, with flowed/ported cylinder head, and a twin Weber 45 setup which would take it to about 195bhp (weighs 850kg). The car is mint, so nothing else would need doing (except maybe the rear beam soon).

If I have that done, the total cost of buying the car, mods, rebuild and a few gadgets that i've added will come to £4459.66p not including consumables, tax, insurance etc etc.

But i'm beginning to wonder whether its worth it now

I've just cleared my last car loan, so have £200 a month spare, but dont want a Scoob as I still have no garage, so been thinking about a Clio Cup

Only thing is the 205 is all paid for, the rebuild will be paid for in cash so it wouldnt stand me at anything.

Bloody decisions

ScoobyJawa

Don't be silly Of course its worth it

Get that bugger rebuilt and have some serious fun, its far cheaper than getting a cup.

David_Dickson

Im considering selling mine too.
Have been thinking about it for a while, and the last track-day just about killed it. Very noticeable lack of power towards the end of the day. Sitting in traffic people point and say my car is on fire as its smoking so much (still well within Emissions regulations though !?)

I dont know if I can find the enthusiasm to get the head off and do the stem-seals. If its fine after that then I might reconsider, but if it still smokes, or I get the head off and find the bores scored to hell, I will be pretty pi$$ed to say the least.

Im ditching a scrap car I have had cluttering up the garage for a while this weekend so that will give me plenty room to work on the pug. Whether I actually do anything is another matter!

Summer is here and I have a hankering for a convertible of some kind and am considering going back to older cars and have been looking at projects like Triumph Spitfires and MG Midgets. I cant afford a minter and am worried my current lack of enthusuasm for car modding would prevent me doing a good job of finishing a restoration job.

Then I look in the local ads and see how rediculously cheap Scoobies are getting and then consider buying one and stripping it for the track. I would then be in the situation of having my track-car a hell of a lot faster than the road car and I dont think i would like that.


Decisions, Decisions

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Hmmm... tough call Simon, and you've already asked me about a Cup as I used to have one, but I really dunno what I'd do...


I luuurve 205 GTi's and Miami Blue is the bollox, but then again I loved my Cup.

The lad that bought my Cup off me (a mate at work) actually has a 205 Mi16 as well that's suffered the same smokey death and his engine is fecked, so he decided that instead of lashing out a fortune fixing a 15 year old car he'd get a nearly new car.

He absolutely loves the Cup though as it's just as quick as his 205 was (I ran the 1/4 in 14.5secs @ 93mph in the Cup), it handles just as well, is a hoot to drive, but it is only 11 months old, still has just over 2 years warranty and AA cover, it's got more mod cons (leccy windows, PAS, etc), it's oddly good on fuel, there's no worries about things like rust, and it's just a modern day 205 in his opinion.


You gotta ask yourself if you really wanna plough ~£4500 into an old car?!

Dream Weaver

Assuming it is stem seals

Mine turned out to be piston rings/big ends so its fubared really

Cheers all, need to think over the weekend.

Zeolite

Well if you guys want to sell the 205s let me know as I am in the market for go-faster bits.
Dream-weaver. If you rebuild the Mi16 then you will know it is good. If you buy another car who knows what will go wong with it?

Gutmann pug

DW .....

The problem is IMHO that you will buy the cup, enjoy driving it but sooner rather than later you will get the urge to take it onto the track. Then you will start worrying about the amount of money your hammering round tyres/ brakes/ crash damage, and start thinking about buying a cheap track car. At that point you will go out and buy a 205 GTi and start modding it for the track.......Then you will end up having gone full circle and be back where you are now.

So what you need to do is buy a clio Cup and use it on the road, and keep the 205, do the engine and use it as a weekend smiles per miles run around and on the track when you want ........

You only come this way once mate, so sxd the expense and have them both.

In the words of the song ''i know, i was that soldier''

Gary ------ sat here looking at his STi and 205 sat on the drive

davyboy

Nah, a Clio Cup is a waste just to use it on road!

I must admit having 2 cars, one road and one play thing is definately the way to go if you can afford it.

Although I am the reverse of Gary, my road car is worth half that of my toy.

Redkop

Have a look in For Sale, RRH has prepared track Clio Cup for sale.

ClioWilliams

I've been considering buying a 172 Cup as well recently as my williams is pretty high maintanance and is costing a fair bit to run. The 10.5k 03 Cups that can be bought with delivery milage are very tempting, however after getting a loan to buy my last car, I've decided to remain debt free and just spend a a couple of thousand on my williams doing tuning and a re-spray as and when I can afford it.
The extra 200 odd quid in the bank each month really adds up. imo

Gutmann pug

£160 for 4 track tyres on the pug versus about £300 on the cup ...... nuff said

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Damn straight...




The Cup loves the track!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

The 195/45 VR16's on the Cup are actually pretty cheap these days... Toyo Proxes at £40 each!

I had a set of 15" alloys though (mk1 172's run 15's) so with 195/50 R15's it's even cheaper...

ScoobyJawa

Me too (kinda the pugs wrapped up cosy in the garage) and the GTR is sitting on the driveway

CrisPDuk

Stick with the 205 you KNOW it makes sense But please, please can you explain why, when we are 4 years into the 21st century, you are contemplating putting a neolithic fueling system onto it We've been in the microchip age for over thirty years for gods sake, people can send words and pictures down phone lines these days
Surely you can treat it to a decent mapped injection/ignition set up, you've already got the injectors & sensors, all you need is the manifold & the bodies

Dream Weaver

Ah, just watched 5th gear taped from the other night, fancy a VX220 now

The thing is with cars, I work from home so only do about 4k miles a year, so I only need a track/weekend toy, and dont need a day to day car (wife has a Focus for that), hence I cant justify 2 cars (til I get a garage ).

I also live on a narrow street full of kids who tend to run past our cars with big sticks etc, another reason for not buying anything too nice as it would get scratched/knocked (i'm also on the pub route).

So I guess i've just talked myself into keeping the 205

CrisPDuk - 45's will give an instant 25bhp for about £600, whereas TB's will cost approx £1500 with an Emerald ECU setup. If my engine was OK I would go for TB's, but add the TB cost to the rebuild and it becomes £3000

The whole idea of the 205 was to get a mint one, then treat it as a classic car, i.e. no expense spared, but I just worry sometimes.

Here she is again, just so you can see why it is worth spending on:





And a quick video from Elvington (with smoke )

http://www.kreature.co.uk/netimg/sho...ture2small.wmv

Gutmann pug

DW

Im not convinced that twin 45's will give you an instant 25BHP. I played with a guy on the track at the weekend who was running them and even on the long straight he didn't have the guts to pass me. He was probably running 1 mph quicker and went from a length behind to level over 1/2 mile. However his engine may have been tired etc etc etc.

The thing with carbs is it dont take too much for them to go out of tune and then they are just sucking fuel without performing. Ok if you can set them up properly yourself but not so good if you cant.

CrisPDuk

The problem with big carbs is, yeah you get 25bhp high up in the rev range, but you loose more in terms of tractability because the air isn't moving fast enough to properly entrain the fuel at lower rpms. Why not for now just fit the emerald ECU to your existing injectors & TB, bin all the emmissions **** & induction pipework, then save for a pukka set of bodies in the future

CrisPDuk

BTW the other thing you've got to bear in mind, are people in ten years going to be saying the Cup is a great looking timeless motor? I don't think so, it looks dated next to a Pug now

Gutmann pug

Can you increase the size of the injectors on the 205 and whats the gains??

Dream Weaver

Think i've decied on TB's now, its only money after all, and I like the idea of plugging the laptop in on track days

ScoobyJawa

LMFAO - wot u like!

Pbr

Ask anyone with twin 45s on a Mi16 what has happened to their mpg, that should be enough to put you off the idea. Replacement cams are supposed to be one of the biggest affordable improvements you can make to the 16V engine vis a vis power gains/tractability.

EddScott

So your sticking to the 205 then?

I've had 3 in all and wouldn't say no to another. Tried like mad to get a Sorrento Green 205 with a Turbo Technics conversion some point last year but it all got too complicated and I think it had a few problems.

Think its dead now but such a nice car.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Ok, so let's get this thing fixed!

Did you ring that bloke in Sabden?!

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

Hmmmm... 15.66secs @ 86mph aint too clever for an Mi16 205 Si...

The engine must be getting pretty fecked now, as it should be in the 14's @ 90 odd mph really.

Rich D

iTrader: (12)

LOL

G33K!

rb5_336

well if the pug is predominantly a road car, there's no way i'd pump another 2k into the car. I'd go for the cup option anytime.

But there are other options, such as another lump from a scrappy etc to keep you going etc

If its a car that your gonna get another few years out of track work etc, then it might be worth the investment

I adore my 205mi16 for the track, in all the cars ive had, i get most amount of fun and thrills out of on the track. But in mine i have the safety of cage/harnesses etc, so i can really go for it on track, and not cry if i crash it

Sean

Ciaran

iTrader: (16)

all i can say is **** me it's fast and just loves corners.
my mate got his with 60 miles pre regd 4 10k and he loves it so it's up to u!

Dream Weaver

Mainly for the track, so practicality is not a problem. I did have visions of keeping it forever, as I treat it as a classic car, the same way people restore Triumph's, Midgets etc.

I think my plan of action now is:

1. Rebuild Mi to OE spec but with flowed/ported head and get it all running right.
2. Buy Emerald ECU and fit it
3. Buy TB's and fit them.

I could afford to do this all at once, but if I spread it out over the next 12 months the hit wont be as hard

Rick - I emailed the guy in Sabden (as I had lots of questions) but he never got back to me, so will try ringing him this week.

The quote above is from Jonnie Wigmore from the 205 board (jonnie205) who does Pug work. Based in Oxford.