bing-bonger

Guys/Gals....

I am faced with the above dilemma, should I get an ITR or a Lotus Elise MK1 (146bhp) 111; I know they are both 'raw' cars the Lotus being the 'rawer' of the 2.

What I would like to know is:-

Which one is faster in the 'real world'?
Which one would be a better daily driver?
I know they both have razor sharp handling, but is the Elise as 'tail-happy' as they say?
Running costs, fuel, servicing etc...is the lotus really that much more expensive???

Any any other views, opinons you care to add will be welcomed.

Oh I currently have an ATR by the way............and a budget of about 11k.

Thanks

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

I'd be suprised if you got either for £11k but here are my observations

Speed

For outright speed then the integra would wipe the floor with the elise, the elise is quick off the line but runs out steam.

The civic is very quick between 80-130mph the elise could never match that.

Handling

I've driven the elise but only been a passenger in the civic/old integra.

I didn't like the handling on the elise, it was too quick to either spin up the inside rear wheel or if you were too heavy handed it just ploughed straight on.

The handling looked like lots of fun on the hondas, personally I hate front drive cars but they had sweet lift off oversteer.

Around a track I'd imaging they'd be about the same in terms of times.

Running

The elise is a pain in the **** to get in and out of They also tend to require quite alot of attention and you can't sit in heavy traffic because they overheat but you can just climb in and out of the integra and carry passengers and do the shopping

Running costs

My mate with the civic was forever complaining about fuel and oil consumption but I guess you are used to that with an accord type R

My mate with the elise seemed quite happy with the costs of fuel etc.
Paul

Brendan Hughes

Why are you giving advice on a civic?

CTR

ITR vs Elise, never driven an ITR, but have owned a CTR, and now own an Elise.

Faster in the real world, dunno, Elise is more fun IMO. If you want to go fast in a straight line, dont buy an Elise. Although the 111s Elise should be faster than an ITR and CTR up to about 100.

Should think the ITR will be the better daily driver.

Like I say never driven an ITR. Be interested to know how paul got an Elise to plough straight on Easiest car to LOO Ive ever driven, what with the engine where it is. Can get it sideways in the wet quite easily using the throttle too. I would say the Elise is quite tail happy, it is not uncontrollable though.

Running costs, Elise is cheaper than the CTR(probably the ITR), but probably requires more attention!

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

Because they are similar cars with the same engine

Paulo P

iTrader: (42)

I couldn't get it plough straight on but my heavy handed mate couldn't get it to do anything else I was drifting it around sideways everywhere and he was just ploughing straight on or it was snapping into oversteer and he was spinning it

cheddar bob

I haven't driven an Elise so can't comment on that but i have driven an ITR and i've been looking for one for 6 months, the ITR is one of the best handling FWD cars ever, servicing & reliability is very reasonable (no more than the ATR i'd imagine) and fuel economy not too bad i've heard (unless you have a very heavy right foot).

As a daily driver I think the ITR would be easier to live with that an Elise.

I wouldn't think neither car is suited to straight line performance but both come into their own when you throw in a few corners.

I'd say have a drive of both and see which one your best suited to.

The_Teg_Man

Test Driven both Elise models a few times, currently own a Teg. I have to say that the Elise is definitely the less practical of the 2 by quite a long way. The 111S is definitely going to be slightly faster overall but a well driven Teg wouldn't be that far behind.

Personally I love the ITR, thats why I own one. It is fantastic to drive, good cornering, VTEC kick, its got a decent sized boot and at a push get 4 adults in aslong as the 2 in the back are not too tall! Ok so its quite noisy at motorway speeds but I don't mind that its all part of the experience.

Good reliabaility, Reasonable fuel consumption although not so good if you rag it everywhere! Also I have found since owning mine that it isn't that common a sight on the road these days. Find a low mileage good example and you are laughing. The residuals seem pretty stable in comparison to some cars.

I can't think of a car in its price range that I'd rather own at the moment.

kenny.c

why not have the best of both worlds by owning an elise with the itr (dc2, b18c) engine conversion.....this converson exists in the states.......maybe someone here could do this too...........

mutant_matt

The Elise is not difficult to get in/out of when you have done it more than a couple of times! Which ITR are you thinking about? Both the old and new (DC5) are top cars and I'd be hard pushed to choose between the Elise and both ITRs. It comes down to what you want it for.

As a daliy driver, the ITR wins hands down. As a track car, the Elise wins, not hands down but by a reasonable margin. In reality, most people want a decent daily driver with performance so I'd recommend the ITR but if daily driver really means weekend car then I'd go for the Elise (as long as it's the 111S).

Matt

CraigH

Why don't you actually test drive them yourself rather than base the decision on which may or may not be fractionally faster?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Good point craig, espcially when you have poeple on here who are comparing yet have not driven both or a civic instead -similar but not the same!

I've been looking for either a teg or elise. Elises have really come down in price recently, Tegs are still quite pricey - especially the older ones which are quite alot of money considering some are getting on a bit now, they are however less about on the road.

As you can guess, my finances are quite stretched, so I'll end up with the cheaper option (or go off the idea and buy something completely different )

MooseRacer

Fun car - Elise, without a shadow of a doubt.
Everyday car - ITR (just)
Ease/Cost of ownership - ITR by a country mile.


Have owned (and loved) both.

Boss Hogg

You won't get 111s for 11k unless there's something wrong. Elise's aren't the most comfortable cars tho - but better handling etc than the MGF, and better image. Handling not a prob, unless you can't drive. A friends got a 1998 S silver Elise for sale with only 29k - and even better it's immaculate and has had brand new dampers, brakes etc etc - over 3k's worth of work! Selling because never used - it's a second car.

Link here:

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW...ch_full=SEARCH

second one down

bing-bonger

thanks for the replies and comments, keep them coming please.....

Ok I have taken a few ITR's(DC2) for test drives I was going to buy one but finding with less then 20k on the clock was a nitemare so I got the ATR (not disapointed tho . Also my best mate has one so I know abit about them.....

As for the Elises I am in the process of looking around now for one and will be "testing" as many as I can over the next couple of months......



thanks

Type R

I went EK9 - DC5 (briefly) - S2 Elise

Driven the DC2 a fair bit, and the CTR on test drives, wouldnt swap mine for one, I have yet to drive a car with such an ability to go round corners.

bing-bonger

Type R - So you have a S2 Elise now then???

Which one?? I saw a S2 Race-Tech one the other day, what are they like???

Type R

My ownership exerience has been fantastic, has been much cheaper to run and ensure than my previous car, boot space hasnt been an issue believe it or not, just have to pack in a different way.

The best part of owning a Lotus is the respect you get on the road, people wave, smile, say hello, nice car, virtually no animosity towards it.

The handling is to die for, and put it on track fantastic, loads of feeling, great to play with, predictable, you really need some tutition to get the best out of the car Ive had 3 airfield training days, and still learning.

I can do this now




The lack of power can get frustrating, after 1 year I have upraded some bits to get just over 140bhp ish, fitted some harnesses and Ali Belled disks, all of which have enhanced the experience.

Before I took delivery a Lotus Sports Exhaust and ITG were put on.

On the downside mine does leak a little, but apart from that I have no issues with my car, 21000 miles 7/8 trackdays only just changed the rear tyres

Type R

Sports Tourer with A/C

bing-bonger

....mmmm intesting points....

Are the S2's prone leaks too??? I am going to get one with a Hard Top as it will be my only car and parked outside. I'm thinking of may be waiting abit longer untill i've got the extra ca$h and go for a S2-111 because of the power...

Having said that I am still swayed by the DC5......mmm....

Type R

To me the S2 felt quicker than the 111S due to the Close Ratio Box, but that was a personal opinion.

The S2's are a lot better than the S1, mine doesnt leak badly, just sometimes when left stationary for a while.

If you drive one you will want one.

Emms

Is'nt there a company (Litchfield imports I believe??) Who will sell you (with warrenty) a new DC5 Teg from upwards of £12k. Though this price is for a stripped out trackday version. I.E no ABS, interior trim, and A race seat. Evidently you can order them from the factory in Japan like that! Oh they will also sell you various packs I.E Road or Track to add on. Perhaps worth a wee look.

Emms

OOh here ya go:

http://www.litchfieldimports.co.uk/racing.html

bing-bonger

That is my main concern silly things like leaks etc because the car will be left outside.....does any one know of you can get a harptop for the S2 like you can for the s1..oh and does that stop the leakage problem????

Just got off the phone with Litchfield imports, they can source a 2001 ITR(DC5) road version with about 10-15k on the clock for around £15k.......

PS they do not do the cheaper racing one anymore they said....

I may need to take a DC5 out and compare that to an elise and DC2!!! It's gonna be a fun summer guys......thanks for the help and keep em coming....

CTR

Dunno about the S2, but on the S1, it only leaks when left stationary, and then only little puddles of water form on the sills, but it has to rain pretty hard for a while for that to happen. You dont get soaked when driving along or anything.

Type R

The newer roof on the S2 doesnt leak at all.

DC5 is a fantastic car but it is still FWD, and althou as quick, it isnt overlly suited to the UK B-roads, the finest FWD car Ive driven.

Dark Blue Mark

I wouldn't touch a used Elise with a barge pole. I gave it some serious thought a while back, as I like the look / idea of them, but quickly changed my mind... Its pretty pre-historic in terms of design, and spoken to far far too many people that had problems with them, as well as an unhappy Exige owner. I know people will defend the reliability as rumours, but when did you ever hear of an ITR having a serious problem?

I am biased, as I own a DC2

I'm really enjoying it too, has the level of reliability I'm used to from the Impreza (owned 4 and not had any probs with them, other than the odd MAF / o2!) Its a lot lot better on fuel that my STi. A fill up is £30-35 and lasts 230 miles, giving it a fair bit of stick, and commuting traffic. Cheap to insure too, at £600.

As said, its a rare car, more so than the Elise probably and you only see one or 2 Elises a day at most!

if I was buying that type of car and had a few quid, the VX220 Turbo must be the one. It looks like pure madness!

MB

Chris L

They were speaking very well of the VX220 Turbo in Evo last month. Running costs and servicing of an Astra (uses Astra engine)

Chris

MooseRacer

*cough* gearbox *cough*

Dark Blue Mark

When I was typing that, I did think that you might pop up and add that one

Still rare though

Think you'll own another one?

MB