Create the perfect road car.
25 August 2004, 09:43 PM
#1
Create the perfect road car.
Ok, theres a lot of threads about what to buy for xxxxx pounds, what about us creating a car, theoretically of course, the rules are,
Cost less than 20 grand new
Be a drivers car of the highest order
No cop outs, i.e. saying the BMW 330i is the best, nuff said.
And thats it, what bits from other cars would make the final cut, what technical details should it have, i.e. dont just say drop a Scoob engine in, say why a particular engine type would be good, the number of pistons, valves, the capacity etc
What drive layout, what suspension, what to leave out, what to keep in.
Use your imagination and hopefully we will end up agreeing (yeah right) on the essence of the perfect road car
Cost less than 20 grand new
Be a drivers car of the highest order
No cop outs, i.e. saying the BMW 330i is the best, nuff said.
And thats it, what bits from other cars would make the final cut, what technical details should it have, i.e. dont just say drop a Scoob engine in, say why a particular engine type would be good, the number of pistons, valves, the capacity etc
What drive layout, what suspension, what to leave out, what to keep in.
Use your imagination and hopefully we will end up agreeing (yeah right) on the essence of the perfect road car
25 August 2004, 09:51 PM
#3
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Sorry this might not count so feel free to tell me to remove it,
I decide the other day that a 200 + BHP Golf TDI engine (chipped) in a MK2 Golf GTI 16V shell would be my perfect road car.
Totally standard apart from some small visual mods, in dark grey or black - with leather and a new style dash. Uprated suspension, bilstein perhaps with nice original BBS or Kahn type wheels.
Thats perfect for me, but this is the Highlands so it kinda makes sense.
I personally think cars are too heavy now but the power plants are excellent..
I decide the other day that a 200 + BHP Golf TDI engine (chipped) in a MK2 Golf GTI 16V shell would be my perfect road car.
Totally standard apart from some small visual mods, in dark grey or black - with leather and a new style dash. Uprated suspension, bilstein perhaps with nice original BBS or Kahn type wheels.
Thats perfect for me, but this is the Highlands so it kinda makes sense.
I personally think cars are too heavy now but the power plants are excellent..
25 August 2004, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by J4CKO
I have thought that the TDI lump in a MK1 or MK2 body could be fun.
Cars are indeed too heavy. And Audi TT weighs more than my Volvo 850 T5 did.
Cars are indeed too heavy. And Audi TT weighs more than my Volvo 850 T5 did.
Shame there isnt an online quote system for bright ideas - imagine it would cost far too much to do though
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26 August 2004, 01:19 AM
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I heard a story from the local Subaru dealer when my mate was buying his MY04 STI, but I have an an inability to trust car salesman so I don't know if it's true, but I liked the idea.
He said (a friend of a friend of course) had managed to get his claws on a 'works touring car mondeo' from a few ages back. 400bhp race bred monster, which he then styled back to an LX, no doubt inclusive of transfers of rust around the arches
What a great concept, sitting in traffic next to a horrid looking ex-fleed Mondeo LX, that looks a bit low? And - oh, it makes a very loud noise, and oooh it's gone into hyper drive off the lights, why can't my 911 turbo keep up with an Mondeo LX even in the bend and twisties?
On the same note, I saw a Spec C for sale recently de-spoilered, and with understated alloys - nice touch...
He said (a friend of a friend of course) had managed to get his claws on a 'works touring car mondeo' from a few ages back. 400bhp race bred monster, which he then styled back to an LX, no doubt inclusive of transfers of rust around the arches
What a great concept, sitting in traffic next to a horrid looking ex-fleed Mondeo LX, that looks a bit low? And - oh, it makes a very loud noise, and oooh it's gone into hyper drive off the lights,
why can't my 911 turbo keep up with an Mondeo LX even in the bend and twisties? On the same note, I saw a Spec C for sale recently de-spoilered, and with understated alloys - nice touch...
26 August 2004, 09:22 AM
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I’d take a Smart Roadster with the Brabus alloys, squeeze a Honda S2000 engine in it (in the middle somehow), ask TVR to style the interior and get Audi to bolt it all together. Now that should be a fun bit of kit…..
26 August 2004, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by CraigH
No such thing - perfect road car doesn't make a perfect drivers car.
26 August 2004, 11:05 AM
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It'd be too slow Ian.
If it is to be a road car rather than a driver's car, as has been said there are different priorities at work, so I'd go for a large and torquey diesel engine. Maybe the new BMW twin turbo 3.0 or the Audi V8. AWD for security in all weathers. Enough ground clearance to clear speed humps. Enough legroom in the rear for 6'+ people. A large readilly accessable boot, either a hatch or an estate. Minimum of 4 pot brakes. 18" wheels with 60 profile tyres. Fully independent suspension. Body panels in GRP and interchangeable like a SMART so repair costs and consequently insurance costs, could be reduced. Large fuel tank to minimise the number of fuel and Ginster stops. Chilled cup holders. High quality sound system (SQ rather than SPL) . A decent satnav system.
If it is to be a road car rather than a driver's car, as has been said there are different priorities at work, so I'd go for a large and torquey diesel engine. Maybe the new BMW twin turbo 3.0 or the Audi V8. AWD for security in all weathers. Enough ground clearance to clear speed humps. Enough legroom in the rear for 6'+ people. A large readilly accessable boot, either a hatch or an estate. Minimum of 4 pot brakes. 18" wheels with 60 profile tyres. Fully independent suspension. Body panels in GRP and interchangeable like a SMART so repair costs and consequently insurance costs, could be reduced. Large fuel tank to minimise the number of fuel and Ginster stops. Chilled cup holders. High quality sound system (SQ rather than SPL) . A decent satnav system.
26 August 2004, 11:14 AM
#17
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to find the perfect car go to www.dialynx.co.uk/reviews_peter_wolf.htm
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, nice!!!
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, nice!!!
26 August 2004, 05:50 PM
#18
Its a perfect road car for those who enjoy driving, rather than a some daft SUV.
Hmm, the 330i is a nice car but is a bit of a no brainer, the default choice that suggests a lack of imagination and a need to conform.
I was thinking along the lines of, reasonable sized front engined rear drive car with 2 doors (for stiffness), suspension wise it would have to be adjustable to the drivers individual taste but basically double wishbone all round. Engine wise I reckon the best choice for a moderately priced divers is a natrually aspirated 4 or 5 cylinder (5 for the noise I think) that relies on a large capacity for its power rather than Forced induction or tricksy valve control, at least 2.5 litres but probably nearer three, four big valves per cylinder and throttle bodies controlled by a fully owner configurable engine management. Estimate a solid 240 bhp with a decent torque spread, six gears. Diesel have a word with yourself !, they are damn good but has a Diesel ever stirred the soul ?, dont think so. Also I find BMW sixes gutless low down and then run out of steam just when you think they are getting going, at least the 320 and 328 did, havent driven a 330.
Wheels, 18 inchers, nah might as well as be in a rap video, 16 inches shod with 205 section tyres, there is too much focus on tyre width like it means anything, yes you get more mechanical grip but if you have to much it generally ***** the handling anyway, tramlining in the dry, aquaplaning in the wet, extra unspung weight, depends whether you are a Max Power school of car design desciple or actually know what you are on about. Remember those Fat Boy Vitaras with 2 foot wide rubber, bet they handled well...
Remember ultimate velocity isnt the only desirable trait, this is why a lot of car enthusiasts and the whole German car industry miss the point, who needs 700 bhp for road use, its ridiculous and utterley at odds with the road conditions we drive in, 250 bhp is enough to cope (for most) with unless you add all the electronics and they are there to save you from yourself, if power were the only measure of driving pleasure it would be bit sad, most of my most memorable drives have been in cars with < 150 bhp,
Frogeye Sprite, Golf GTI MK1, Fiat 500, Capri 1.6 GT MK1, MR2 MK1, Capri 2.8, Scoob (still less than 150 bhp at the wheels !)
I suppose its a question of whether you want to scare yourself witless or enjoy the drive.
Hmm, the 330i is a nice car but is a bit of a no brainer, the default choice that suggests a lack of imagination and a need to conform.
I was thinking along the lines of, reasonable sized front engined rear drive car with 2 doors (for stiffness), suspension wise it would have to be adjustable to the drivers individual taste but basically double wishbone all round. Engine wise I reckon the best choice for a moderately priced divers is a natrually aspirated 4 or 5 cylinder (5 for the noise I think) that relies on a large capacity for its power rather than Forced induction or tricksy valve control, at least 2.5 litres but probably nearer three, four big valves per cylinder and throttle bodies controlled by a fully owner configurable engine management. Estimate a solid 240 bhp with a decent torque spread, six gears. Diesel have a word with yourself !, they are damn good but has a Diesel ever stirred the soul ?, dont think so. Also I find BMW sixes gutless low down and then run out of steam just when you think they are getting going, at least the 320 and 328 did, havent driven a 330.
Wheels, 18 inchers, nah might as well as be in a rap video, 16 inches shod with 205 section tyres, there is too much focus on tyre width like it means anything, yes you get more mechanical grip but if you have to much it generally ***** the handling anyway, tramlining in the dry, aquaplaning in the wet, extra unspung weight, depends whether you are a Max Power school of car design desciple or actually know what you are on about. Remember those Fat Boy Vitaras with 2 foot wide rubber, bet they handled well...
Remember ultimate velocity isnt the only desirable trait, this is why a lot of car enthusiasts and the whole German car industry miss the point, who needs 700 bhp for road use, its ridiculous and utterley at odds with the road conditions we drive in, 250 bhp is enough to cope (for most) with unless you add all the electronics and they are there to save you from yourself, if power were the only measure of driving pleasure it would be bit sad, most of my most memorable drives have been in cars with < 150 bhp,
Frogeye Sprite, Golf GTI MK1, Fiat 500, Capri 1.6 GT MK1, MR2 MK1, Capri 2.8, Scoob (still less than 150 bhp at the wheels !)
I suppose its a question of whether you want to scare yourself witless or enjoy the drive.
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