Thoughts & info on FTO's
02 October 2005, 10:11 AM
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Thoughts & info on FTO's
Hi all
love my scoob to bits but may have to get a cheaper car to run
, usual reasons, expense on fuel, parts and basically saving for a place with the mrs.
i have a 93wrx, pretty much perfect condition, bright red, many mods and thousands of pounds of receipts from the last 2 years. Obviously pushing nearly 300 bhp its a great car and great fun to drive. (engine rebuild too)
Will the mitsubishi fto gp mivec version r be anywhere near as fun to drive or own but on a cheaper scale?
www.mitsubishi-fto.org/info/gpvr-aero.htm
I have been told there handling is quite good, 200bhp seems ok from a 2l 24v v6 engine, apparenly better fuel economy (well has to do more than 150 miles to a tank than in the scoob!) I know it wont compare, just would like a nice looking 'sporty' car with sum oopmh to stop me getting board.
any thoughts or info on the fto's much appreciated.
thanks
tim
love my scoob to bits but may have to get a cheaper car to run
, usual reasons, expense on fuel, parts and basically saving for a place with the mrs.i have a 93wrx, pretty much perfect condition, bright red, many mods and thousands of pounds of receipts from the last 2 years. Obviously pushing nearly 300 bhp its a great car and great fun to drive. (engine rebuild too)
Will the mitsubishi fto gp mivec version r be anywhere near as fun to drive or own but on a cheaper scale?
www.mitsubishi-fto.org/info/gpvr-aero.htm
I have been told there handling is quite good, 200bhp seems ok from a 2l 24v v6 engine, apparenly better fuel economy (well has to do more than 150 miles to a tank than in the scoob!) I know it wont compare, just would like a nice looking 'sporty' car with sum oopmh to stop me getting board.
any thoughts or info on the fto's much appreciated.
thanks
tim
02 October 2005, 12:31 PM
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i just sold my 2000 V plate. early models looking dated.
they do look different, they share many parts with a galant, there fourm moderators are ar**holes, they dont like it when you prove them wrong, they then ban you.
Anyway, (rant over) they arent that much cheaper to run, they are thirsty, a V6 remember. i was getting around 120 miles to £20 worth of super unleaded.
getting a decent one is hard. especialy when looking at older model. if possible, go and buy one out of the auctions. There you will be able to tell if they have been clocked, ie, wear vs miles that sort of thing. Remember, pre 2005 cars dont need an esva to be on the road, so they are alot easier to put on the road at that age.
Insurance seems to be quite high on them. Through elephant, i payed nearly £1700, and when i changed cars to my 05 WRX with mods, they wanted a mere £1000.
so they seem expensive to insure.
Other than that, for infor, check the VR4 owners club for tech advice. Not sure many of them know it or not, but the non mivec engine is the same as the one in theres just with the twin turbos on them, slightly different Head.
Oh, make sure you get the box checked, and me personly, in th MK1, i would stay away from the 4 speed tiptronic box, if its a facelift, its an INVECS II box, 5 speed and newer, less likley to break, was a bit of a stronger box. But believe me, the last thing you want is to need to have a reconed tip box, very costly. Alot harder to fing the manual boxes, but more rewarding IMO.
Let me know if theres out more you need to know, if i dont know it, i will certainly try and find out for you.
John
they do look different, they share many parts with a galant, there fourm moderators are ar**holes, they dont like it when you prove them wrong, they then ban you.
Anyway, (rant over) they arent that much cheaper to run, they are thirsty, a V6 remember. i was getting around 120 miles to £20 worth of super unleaded.
getting a decent one is hard. especialy when looking at older model. if possible, go and buy one out of the auctions. There you will be able to tell if they have been clocked, ie, wear vs miles that sort of thing. Remember, pre 2005 cars dont need an esva to be on the road, so they are alot easier to put on the road at that age.
Insurance seems to be quite high on them. Through elephant, i payed nearly £1700, and when i changed cars to my 05 WRX with mods, they wanted a mere £1000.
so they seem expensive to insure.
Other than that, for infor, check the VR4 owners club for tech advice. Not sure many of them know it or not, but the non mivec engine is the same as the one in theres just with the twin turbos on them, slightly different Head.
Oh, make sure you get the box checked, and me personly, in th MK1, i would stay away from the 4 speed tiptronic box, if its a facelift, its an INVECS II box, 5 speed and newer, less likley to break, was a bit of a stronger box. But believe me, the last thing you want is to need to have a reconed tip box, very costly. Alot harder to fing the manual boxes, but more rewarding IMO.
Let me know if theres out more you need to know, if i dont know it, i will certainly try and find out for you.
John
02 October 2005, 01:03 PM
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Earlier this year my lodger wanted to get a coupe, style being really important to her. I'm a coupe fan as well, so I helped her by making a list of all the options. One of the options, and the best looking of the bunch was the FTO. She wanted a manual (good girl!!) which was difficult to find.
We test drove a manual and were disappointed with the engine. During the test drive I told her to put her foot down hard to test the acceleration. She only went up to 5000 revs and it was rubbish (no other words described it). It was so slow compared to a Mazda MX6 (great car btw). The engine had nothing to offer at lower revs. It was like a shopping trolley. I think that's because of the variable valve timing. i.e. no power until you cane it.
Much as I love the looks, the FTO would not be for me.
Sorry to be so negative. Test drive it for yourself and see what you think.
We test drove a manual and were disappointed with the engine. During the test drive I told her to put her foot down hard to test the acceleration. She only went up to 5000 revs and it was rubbish (no other words described it). It was so slow compared to a Mazda MX6 (great car btw). The engine had nothing to offer at lower revs. It was like a shopping trolley. I think that's because of the variable valve timing. i.e. no power until you cane it.
Much as I love the looks, the FTO would not be for me.
Sorry to be so negative. Test drive it for yourself and see what you think.
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02 October 2005, 01:16 PM
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all pre 2005 cars DO require an ESVA and there is no model report for the mivec FTO's.
pre 1996 cars only need an SVA and this is typically £500 if the car is standard. The nicest looking cars are post 1997, they got a facelift and the tiptronic versions gained an extra cog which was great!
Everything else EVOLUTION said is spot on. They are stupidly expensive to insure for what they are. They are pretty thirsty, I average 28 mpg running a GPX Tiptronic. They have a fair bit of go but handling is the strongest point for them.
I did a few timed runs and got 7 seconds 0 -60 most of the time and 0-100 was late 18's to low 19's. The manual *may* be quicker but from our tests (a few years back) none seemed to perform much better. In fact a non mivec tiptronic got the lowest 0-60 time of the day (6.7s). Although I suspect in driving form the manuals are better.
Personally, if I was looking to save money I wouldn't buy an FTO. They are great but pound for pound there are better cars that may suit your needs.
I ran a 94 celica GT for a couple of years 30+ mpg cheaper insurance and general running costs. Speed and handling were both worse but not as much as you'd think. Your are talking tenths here so in a 'race' whoever reacted quickest is likely to 'win'.
Also ran a 200sx. UK car so insurance was much cheaper. Ate rear tyres and pretty tricky in the wet but much much faster. Similar money will buy you a S14a which is best looking SX
pre 1996 cars only need an SVA and this is typically £500 if the car is standard. The nicest looking cars are post 1997, they got a facelift and the tiptronic versions gained an extra cog which was great!
Everything else EVOLUTION said is spot on. They are stupidly expensive to insure for what they are. They are pretty thirsty, I average 28 mpg running a GPX Tiptronic. They have a fair bit of go but handling is the strongest point for them.
I did a few timed runs and got 7 seconds 0 -60 most of the time and 0-100 was late 18's to low 19's. The manual *may* be quicker but from our tests (a few years back) none seemed to perform much better. In fact a non mivec tiptronic got the lowest 0-60 time of the day (6.7s). Although I suspect in driving form the manuals are better.
Personally, if I was looking to save money I wouldn't buy an FTO. They are great but pound for pound there are better cars that may suit your needs.
I ran a 94 celica GT for a couple of years 30+ mpg cheaper insurance and general running costs. Speed and handling were both worse but not as much as you'd think. Your are talking tenths here so in a 'race' whoever reacted quickest is likely to 'win'.
Also ran a 200sx. UK car so insurance was much cheaper. Ate rear tyres and pretty tricky in the wet but much much faster. Similar money will buy you a S14a which is best looking SX
02 October 2005, 10:00 PM
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thanks for all the helpful advice and info guy's
i know the handling supposed to be gud, and yeh i will be after a manual and was looking at the facelift models.
I checked insurance on them (group 18 ish?) got a far cheaper quote than on my scoob. petrol wise i fill up and it lasts 150 miles. so the fto must be better on average than that?!?!? luckily that will cover a week for me and i get paid weekly. As long as i get 20 mpg plus i will be happy.
As for the power, i read that yes you need to cane it to get the extra power kicking in, is it true though they are abit more bullet proof (dare i say) than the scoob? i.e the version 2 gearbox they have is abit more robust?
I'm not after blistering performance, aslong as it has some! good looks and a nice drive i will be quite happy.
i know the handling supposed to be gud, and yeh i will be after a manual and was looking at the facelift models.
I checked insurance on them (group 18 ish?) got a far cheaper quote than on my scoob. petrol wise i fill up and it lasts 150 miles. so the fto must be better on average than that?!?!? luckily that will cover a week for me and i get paid weekly. As long as i get 20 mpg plus i will be happy.
As for the power, i read that yes you need to cane it to get the extra power kicking in, is it true though they are abit more bullet proof (dare i say) than the scoob? i.e the version 2 gearbox they have is abit more robust?
I'm not after blistering performance, aslong as it has some! good looks and a nice drive i will be quite happy.
02 October 2005, 10:30 PM
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Hmmm, my 2 pence...
Having owned a modded GPX (MIVEC) manual and a Scoob, I'd say that the FTO can be quite good fun, if you like to drive at high revs a lot. The Scoob is quicker yes, but I eventually got bored of driving the Scoob, cos it was just "point & shoot". Anyway, I found that the FTO only handled well after sorting it out with a full Koni suspension kit and strut braces. The standard footwork is pants, and you definately need decent boots. So if you're looking to save money, get a tidy modded one! Insurance, £300 less than Scoob. Fuel - used less than Scoob too. Servicing about the same, depends who does it, but cambelt is deffo a specialist £200 job...for example http://www.camskill.co.uk
Manual box, definatley preferred over the Tip. I drove a Tip GPX recently and was left frustrated. The GR manuals aren't really that far behind in a 0-60 dash - less weight.
If you like the look of the facelift (97 on), you can at least get the facelift bumper and wing from http://www.japco.co.uk/parts.htm for an older model.
If you must get an FTO, again make it a manual! GR or GPX. GP and GPvR are very rare esp with manual 'box.
The best power to weight ratio will be the GP. MIVEC engine and less electrical stuff (ie manual type AC instead of climate ctrl). The Version R has the extra weight of the LSD. Oh and be careful that you don't get offered a GP Aero Series masquerading as a Version R! Check its chassis no. before you commit! (I've learnt the hard way recently).
But for cheap NA engined performance, FTO is not bad. But I had better fun with my VTEC Integra. Pick up a tidy DC2 ITR for £6-7k. One hell of a car out of the box and the VTEC is a lot more noticeable than MIVEC. Also, it doesn't understeer like the FTO. Only downside is the higher insurance.
http://www.aisimports.co.uk had a nice modded black MIVEC...bit steep at £6k though?
Having owned a modded GPX (MIVEC) manual and a Scoob, I'd say that the FTO can be quite good fun, if you like to drive at high revs a lot. The Scoob is quicker yes, but I eventually got bored of driving the Scoob, cos it was just "point & shoot". Anyway, I found that the FTO only handled well after sorting it out with a full Koni suspension kit and strut braces. The standard footwork is pants, and you definately need decent boots. So if you're looking to save money, get a tidy modded one! Insurance, £300 less than Scoob. Fuel - used less than Scoob too. Servicing about the same, depends who does it, but cambelt is deffo a specialist £200 job...for example http://www.camskill.co.uk
Manual box, definatley preferred over the Tip. I drove a Tip GPX recently and was left frustrated. The GR manuals aren't really that far behind in a 0-60 dash - less weight.
If you like the look of the facelift (97 on), you can at least get the facelift bumper and wing from http://www.japco.co.uk/parts.htm for an older model.
If you must get an FTO, again make it a manual! GR or GPX. GP and GPvR are very rare esp with manual 'box.
The best power to weight ratio will be the GP. MIVEC engine and less electrical stuff (ie manual type AC instead of climate ctrl). The Version R has the extra weight of the LSD. Oh and be careful that you don't get offered a GP Aero Series masquerading as a Version R! Check its chassis no. before you commit! (I've learnt the hard way recently).
But for cheap NA engined performance, FTO is not bad. But I had better fun with my VTEC Integra. Pick up a tidy DC2 ITR for £6-7k. One hell of a car out of the box and the VTEC is a lot more noticeable than MIVEC. Also, it doesn't understeer like the FTO. Only downside is the higher insurance.
http://www.aisimports.co.uk had a nice modded black MIVEC...bit steep at £6k though?
Last edited by Hashi; 03 October 2005 at 01:27 PM.
03 October 2005, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MattN
all pre 2005 cars DO require an ESVA and there is no model report for the mivec FTO's.
pre 1996 cars only need an SVA and this is typically £500 if the car is standard. The nicest looking cars are post 1997, they got a facelift and the tiptronic versions gained an extra cog which was great!
Everything else EVOLUTION said is spot on. They are stupidly expensive to insure for what they are. They are pretty thirsty, I average 28 mpg running a GPX Tiptronic. They have a fair bit of go but handling is the strongest point for them.
I did a few timed runs and got 7 seconds 0 -60 most of the time and 0-100 was late 18's to low 19's. The manual *may* be quicker but from our tests (a few years back) none seemed to perform much better. In fact a non mivec tiptronic got the lowest 0-60 time of the day (6.7s). Although I suspect in driving form the manuals are better.
Personally, if I was looking to save money I wouldn't buy an FTO. They are great but pound for pound there are better cars that may suit your needs.
I ran a 94 celica GT for a couple of years 30+ mpg cheaper insurance and general running costs. Speed and handling were both worse but not as much as you'd think. Your are talking tenths here so in a 'race' whoever reacted quickest is likely to 'win'.
Also ran a 200sx. UK car so insurance was much cheaper. Ate rear tyres and pretty tricky in the wet but much much faster. Similar money will buy you a S14a which is best looking SX
pre 1996 cars only need an SVA and this is typically £500 if the car is standard. The nicest looking cars are post 1997, they got a facelift and the tiptronic versions gained an extra cog which was great!
Everything else EVOLUTION said is spot on. They are stupidly expensive to insure for what they are. They are pretty thirsty, I average 28 mpg running a GPX Tiptronic. They have a fair bit of go but handling is the strongest point for them.
I did a few timed runs and got 7 seconds 0 -60 most of the time and 0-100 was late 18's to low 19's. The manual *may* be quicker but from our tests (a few years back) none seemed to perform much better. In fact a non mivec tiptronic got the lowest 0-60 time of the day (6.7s). Although I suspect in driving form the manuals are better.
Personally, if I was looking to save money I wouldn't buy an FTO. They are great but pound for pound there are better cars that may suit your needs.
I ran a 94 celica GT for a couple of years 30+ mpg cheaper insurance and general running costs. Speed and handling were both worse but not as much as you'd think. Your are talking tenths here so in a 'race' whoever reacted quickest is likely to 'win'.
Also ran a 200sx. UK car so insurance was much cheaper. Ate rear tyres and pretty tricky in the wet but much much faster. Similar money will buy you a S14a which is best looking SX
Sorry for that piece of misleading rubbish....
Any way, another point to think about, if your going for the facelift, make sure you drive the non mivec GR or GX, they upped the power on them, i drove several mivec cars in manaul and my GX that i eventualy bought felt faster. i once again proved this at york several time by beateing the mivec mauals, i race 6 in total, 4 of which were autos, and i got 6 better times, not wins, as i was going for the times, much to the annoiance of the other owners.
Take a currenty owner with you, and check the forums for owners posting about problem cars, its the first thing i look for when buying anycar like this, you never know what you may find out...
John
Last edited by EVOLUTION; 03 October 2005 at 02:30 AM.
03 October 2005, 11:34 AM
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i ran one for two years before my scoob, was quick, not in the same league as my type r however, but fuel consumption much better, looks a bit XKR/DB7 from the front.
looked at lots before ii bought, took me a while to find the right one too.
black, best colour, bitch to keep clean in the winter, looked awesome when done properly though.
manual, about 1 sec quicker upto 62, according to mitsu and tiptronic ones i looked at felt even slower.
gpx model
did look at type r when i bought mine but same sort of extra money as my type r scoob and could not warrent it as so similar.
only thing i had was the idle stepper motor go, £300 from ralliart, £40 from recon place in coventry, same with elec mirror, £280 from ralliart, £50 from breakers so had no probs with bits either.
sold mine for 5k two years ago, had everything on it, climate, electric windows, tracker, put it on autotrader on line, sold the first day.
was offered 3.5k as part ex, just laughed.
if you want any advice pm me
ian
looked at lots before ii bought, took me a while to find the right one too.
black, best colour, bitch to keep clean in the winter, looked awesome when done properly though.
manual, about 1 sec quicker upto 62, according to mitsu and tiptronic ones i looked at felt even slower.
gpx model
did look at type r when i bought mine but same sort of extra money as my type r scoob and could not warrent it as so similar.
only thing i had was the idle stepper motor go, £300 from ralliart, £40 from recon place in coventry, same with elec mirror, £280 from ralliart, £50 from breakers so had no probs with bits either.
sold mine for 5k two years ago, had everything on it, climate, electric windows, tracker, put it on autotrader on line, sold the first day.
was offered 3.5k as part ex, just laughed.
if you want any advice pm me
ian
03 October 2005, 12:20 PM
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You wont seel one that easy now, take a look on the trader, i had a serious job getting £6500 for my manual one, and that was a facelift on a 2000 V plate.
Like for like the ITR is going to be more expensive, but the insurance may warrent the slightly more expensive car, it being a full UK car...
Dont be fooled by the supposed UK ones either if you come accross a few, Thjey were like the Galant VR4, very limited numbers brought in by ralliart and to the IC, there still a Grey Import, unfortunatly. Although what you will get, is a full UK service history.
You takes your pic, you takes your chance...
Hope you find a good one mate
John
Like for like the ITR is going to be more expensive, but the insurance may warrent the slightly more expensive car, it being a full UK car...
Dont be fooled by the supposed UK ones either if you come accross a few, Thjey were like the Galant VR4, very limited numbers brought in by ralliart and to the IC, there still a Grey Import, unfortunatly. Although what you will get, is a full UK service history.
You takes your pic, you takes your chance...
Hope you find a good one mate
John
03 October 2005, 01:25 PM
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again, great info thanks all, some of you will probably be getting daft emails from me asking dumb q's about them, but i think i do like the fto for looks alone, so a guess i will be on the hunt for one.
whats this about they up't the power on the facelift ones?
i would like to get the best engine & model in manual so 1st of many q's which are these models? 97 being 'r' reg? or newer for me to look at?
oh and who wants a mentally fast 290/300 bhp, well modded bright red 1993 wrx all singing all dancin' ??!!!?? many & many athousands spent, no expense spared, flew through MOT yesterday and has 6months tax left!
doubt you can find a cleaner model for its year. i was 1st owner in this country & owned for 2half yrs just turned 60k on clock. & rebuilt engine, parts all from dave @ api. anny offers (pls dontinsult me too much!)
whats this about they up't the power on the facelift ones?
i would like to get the best engine & model in manual so 1st of many q's which are these models? 97 being 'r' reg? or newer for me to look at?
oh and who wants a mentally fast 290/300 bhp, well modded bright red 1993 wrx all singing all dancin' ??!!!?? many & many athousands spent, no expense spared, flew through MOT yesterday and has 6months tax left!
doubt you can find a cleaner model for its year. i was 1st owner in this country & owned for 2half yrs just turned 60k on clock. & rebuilt engine, parts all from dave @ api. anny offers (pls dontinsult me too much!)
03 October 2005, 01:39 PM
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[QUOTE=timmyajmy93wrx]
i would like to get the best engine & model in manual so 1st of many q's which are these models? 97 being 'r' reg? or newer for me to look at?
QUOTE]
Whats your budget? Cos for a genuine facelifted 97 manual (whatever the model) you're looking at £5k minimum. I've seen some mint GXs just off the boat selling for £9k!
The GX is a 4cyl 1.8 IIRC, i personally wouldn't get that one...
97 on, they changed the seat fabrics, added an airbag Momo wheel, new bumper and rear wing. Mechanically, can't remember but I don't think the V6s power changed at all. Approx 180 PS and 200PS for GR and GP respectively.
One modding hint, get it de-catted plus a HKS filter and air feed. Then get a SAFC/VAFC or re-map. The likes of TDI did offer a remap, but the FTOOC didnt rate it IIRC. The above mods free up more torque and its revs noticeably quicker.
i would like to get the best engine & model in manual so 1st of many q's which are these models? 97 being 'r' reg? or newer for me to look at?
QUOTE]
Whats your budget? Cos for a genuine facelifted 97 manual (whatever the model) you're looking at £5k minimum. I've seen some mint GXs just off the boat selling for £9k!
The GX is a 4cyl 1.8 IIRC, i personally wouldn't get that one...
97 on, they changed the seat fabrics, added an airbag Momo wheel, new bumper and rear wing. Mechanically, can't remember but I don't think the V6s power changed at all. Approx 180 PS and 200PS for GR and GP respectively.
One modding hint, get it de-catted plus a HKS filter and air feed. Then get a SAFC/VAFC or re-map. The likes of TDI did offer a remap, but the FTOOC didnt rate it IIRC. The above mods free up more torque and its revs noticeably quicker.
03 October 2005, 01:48 PM
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well was hoping, from prices i've seen either bight the bullet and get a mint 95/96 & put new age front bumper on it, or look around for 97/98 dependant on price. hoping to get a good one for max 6k. seems afew on autotrader for 5-6k all in excellent condition but are the 1995/96 models. what power & engines are these? still the 200 bhp mivec things? or they only in the 97 onwards?
tim
tim
03 October 2005, 01:52 PM
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check this one out - any thoughts?!?!
http://www.wickedkit.com/
click on SHOWROOM then go to MITSHUBISHI then scroll down to the black one.
http://www.wickedkit.com/
click on SHOWROOM then go to MITSHUBISHI then scroll down to the black one.
03 October 2005, 06:41 PM
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04 October 2005, 12:54 AM
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Face lift GR, GX had a power hike from 180ps to 190ps. dont know how much the torque changed, but see if you can get a drive of both, i was amazed in the difference.
As for paying 9k, dont, i paid 9.5K for mine and in 8 months i lost 3k on it. There are people out there asking silly money for these, because garages have silly forecort prices, dont pay it, cos if you look around, you wont have to fork out that kind of cash... Lets face it, mine was on the market for £6500, that was a V plate, you very rarely see them newer than the one i had. If i remember correctly, the last car off the production line was early 1999. You do however get ones on a newer reg, there just late in being registered, think ive seen a 52 plate somewhere before.
Pm me fior my email address if you need to know anything more mate
John
As for paying 9k, dont, i paid 9.5K for mine and in 8 months i lost 3k on it. There are people out there asking silly money for these, because garages have silly forecort prices, dont pay it, cos if you look around, you wont have to fork out that kind of cash... Lets face it, mine was on the market for £6500, that was a V plate, you very rarely see them newer than the one i had. If i remember correctly, the last car off the production line was early 1999. You do however get ones on a newer reg, there just late in being registered, think ive seen a 52 plate somewhere before.
Pm me fior my email address if you need to know anything more mate
John
04 October 2005, 02:22 AM
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if it were between a dc2 integra or a fto i'd get the dc2 even without thinking, even if it was a few grand more knowing that i'd be getting a better car.
hell i'd probably even put up with the 100+ drop in bhp and nearly 200 drop in torque and own one now, a drivers car, superb gearchange, powersteering like all hondas could probably be better but this is the best of the bunch bar say a nsx and probably a dc5 teg,
hell i'd probably even put up with the 100+ drop in bhp and nearly 200 drop in torque and own one now, a drivers car, superb gearchange, powersteering like all hondas could probably be better but this is the best of the bunch bar say a nsx and probably a dc5 teg,
05 October 2005, 05:35 PM
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i sold my fto mivec v6 the other month, its better on fuel than the scooby, is comfortable and a solid drive, does handle well, not many about and can pick one up pretty cheap, good car look nice to and get some good lucks, try and get a manuel if you can there quicker,
in 1st gear it can be pretty sluggish till you get into the mivec zone at about 6500 revs, same thing as the honda type r. but once here it will pull well all the way to 150mph quite well. if you have a good exhaust and induction kit when the mivec kicks in its one of the best sounds around really screams at you,
if your serious, try and buy of an enthusiast look here www.ftooc.org at the for sale section some nice well looked after cars here, i also know of someone sellin a mint facelift model for about 6k if your lookin to spend that much, if you want to know more let me know or pm me
in 1st gear it can be pretty sluggish till you get into the mivec zone at about 6500 revs, same thing as the honda type r. but once here it will pull well all the way to 150mph quite well. if you have a good exhaust and induction kit when the mivec kicks in its one of the best sounds around really screams at you,
if your serious, try and buy of an enthusiast look here www.ftooc.org at the for sale section some nice well looked after cars here, i also know of someone sellin a mint facelift model for about 6k if your lookin to spend that much, if you want to know more let me know or pm me
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