lowlander

Hi there,

With a budget of 10K I’m considering a number of options including the following

• Audi S3.
• Seat Leon Cupra R

I know both of these cars use the same 1.8T engine rated initially at 210 bhp and then uprated to 225 bhp.

I’d prefer a 5 door car but not sure if they ever made the Leon as a 5dr. I know that the S3 is 3dr only.

Keen to keep the running costs to a reasonable level and am a bit concerned about the possible costs associated with maintaining the Audi’s 4WD system.

Other cars being considered include a VG Golf 2.8 4Motion and a BMW 530i (manual) although I’ve covered these two in a previous thread.

Any advice?

Thanks.

Martin.

mattbeef

im pretty sure that the cupra is a 5 door, if you want the space though why not get an Octavia vRS? Uses the same engine again so you know how it goes and you get more equipment for your money

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Leon is a 5 door only.

sgcooby

Its not expensive to maintain the haldex 4wd system on the S3 so dont let that sway your decision. The S3 is far classier than the cupra and with awd is far more useable. Great car but it will be older for your budget. I had an S3 which i loved but i was dissapointed with how stiff and rattly it was compared to my other audi's. Still nice though. 4motion similar car but much softer sprung and feels a lot slower due to lack of turbo. I nearly bought one but was not impressed with how slow it allways felt even if ultimately is was near as fast as S3 or cupra. Cupra has same dash as S3 but dont think it will look or feel as good. It looks far more low rent than the audi interior.

RS Grant

Drove a 225 Leon Cupra R the other day and was VERY impressed... given the greasy conditions I thought that the 18's gripped very well, despite the ESP being turned off. If you are very hashy with gearchanges and brutal with clutch and throttle then you will get them to break traction but drive normally and you can still make quick progress.

As for the power, well, I'd just driven a standard Mini Cooper S and the Leon was in a different league.. very quick car, I would REALLY like a drive in a re-mapped model with c270bhp.

The interior didnt feel low-rent to me in the slightest, and owned/been in many Audis of varying spec/age. I would be very happy to own a Leon Cupra R or an S3, but I would drive both and see which you prefer. The S3 will be smaller inside and was 3dr only.

I doubt that there will be a big difference, if any, in Insurance/Running Costs between the two.


Cheers,
Grant

Stuart J

Or the Octavia 4x4, serious street stealth, a simple remap sees 225 bhp, as for how far you can push the performance, just depends on the depth of your pockets, Im currently up to 350 bhp

Adam M

agree re rent of cupra interior.

i think given your last thread and your goals, of wanting as bigger car, the cupra R is without question the best choice for you.

Badge snobbery makes second hand values much better than the golfs or audis but it is the same car only better looking. very practical, very well made and very quick.

I prefer it to the S3 personally on the basis of practicality and brutal looks.

Haldex system does do a good job of getting the power down though, and I would imagine the cupra might be a bit annoying in that respect on some occasions.

Cupramax

I ran a 210 Leon Cupra R for the best part of three years up until recently. I had one of the first batch in to the UK in August 02. It has to be one of the best cars to drive I've ever had bar none. Dynamically it was excellent, having none of the heavy dead feeling that Audis sometimes have. Admittedly it was bought to life by a Revo map which turns them into a bit of an animal.

I've now got rid of it for a new shape A3 2.0T Quattro and to be honest its nowhere near as exciting to drive as the Leon, what a disappointment even with the S-line suspension pack. It may be nearly as quick with a remap but it sure isn't as dynamic. 4wd makes the car feel so heavy and not as nimble as the Leon but is however great for traffic light GP's Am currently waiting to see what the newshape Leon Cupra and the much vaunted new S3 have in store because the current A3 isn't doing it for me.

Anyone who slags an LCR off hasn't driven one, on a budget you'd have to go a long way to beat it...

AudiLover

Id get the S3 because its a audi and its faster on the rack when both stock. Its meant to be a easy task getting 260hp out of the S3 but Im not too convinced about it.

sulli

The LCR is a great, practical car. Nice spacious boot, and a decent amount of room in the back - if you need that then it's got to be the LCR over the S3.
Plus the LCR is miles better looking than the S3, quicker once rolling, and because it's a VAG car is very reliable but you'll get a decent one for £10k, unlike the Audi, where you'll have to get an older one.
Less than £500 gets the LCR up to 260-270bhp and close to 300 lb/ft, and you don't need to upgrade the brakes or suspension to cope.
Only problem is lack of traction on start - there's just too much power, especially when wet, and I must say I do miss 4WD. But it handles very well IMO.
I get bored of cars quick, but I think the LCR will keep my attention for a while - they grow on you.

mattbeef

i take it your badge snobs then as no one has considered the octavia

RS Grant

No Matt... its just that the guy asked for opinions on the Leon and Audi.


Cheers,
Grant

lowlander

Thanks for all the comments guys,

I'm swaying towards the Leon. The golf 2.8 4 Motion looks good but maybe a bit soft. The Audi is excellent but a bit pricey. The BMW 530i is an excellent car but perhaps just a bit bigger than I really need. Which leaves the Seat. Fast, comfortable, reliable, and not too flashy (although I admit I'm not so keen on the red trim inside).

When did they uprate the engine from 210 bhp to 225 bhp?

Thanks and all the best.

Martin.

abc

The 180 bhp Leon beat the S3 (as did the VRs) in an Autocar test a while back, mainly on handling, so I reckon that's a clear vote in favour of the LCR. We had a Leon before the Scooby and they're well put together and easy to live with; haven't driven an LCR.

Cheers,

Andrew

Rokerlad

The 225bhp LCR was introduced in late 2003. All 53 plate onwards are virtually guranteed to be 225's although I believe some 03 plate examples are in existance. Easiest way to tell is the 225's have teardrop mirrors, red band at 12'o'clock on the steering wheel, red 'R' on the Cupra R badge on boot and have engine code beginning with 'BAM' ( found on plate under carpet in boot ) .

sulli

The differnece between the 210 and 225 is minimal, believe me - and both get similar remap results.
My 'standard' 210 shows 290+Nm when logging on vag.com (standard for 210 is 270Nm, and standard for 225 is 280Nm) - have also read that 210 tends to read higher than 210bhp, maybe because they've had a chance to loosen up, and 225s read around 220-225bhp.
I would highly recommend the LCR (having owned a fair few performance cars).

Spankathon

I have a 210 LCR, very quick, very practical and can achieve mid 30mpg easily if needed.

How can it be 'far more low rent' if its the same dash..??

The build quality is very, very good, if I'm honest it does have one or two creaks, but thats down to the firm suspension (nothing a few felt pads doesn't sort).

Some 210bhp LCR's have the tear drop mirrors though, but there is dramatically less visibility compared to the early mirrors.
Performance wise, there is very little (if any) difference between the 210 and 225 versions, I believe the 210's have stronger pistons (?), they both remap to the same amount anyway.

I am so impressed with my LCR, and already think finding a replacement (few years yet ) will be very difficult indeed.

Go drive one, you'll love it !!

Hammoc

LCR or S3 both good cars. Fundamentally a lot of the bits are shared and very good being VAG stock. Personal choice, budget, what is for sale etc will ulimately be what make your mind up.

Rokerlad

The dash in the Audi and the LCR is exactly the same....trust me. No difference in quality at all.

There is little difference performance wise between the 210 and the 225, but the 225 is always going to be more desireable than the 210, if anyone is given the choice. (the tear drop mirrors improve the look of the car as well)

The VAG 1.8T 210 / 225 engines are fundamentally the same, The VAG 1.8T 180 engine ( as seen in Skodas ) is different ( turbo and internals) and will never see anywhere near the same power as the 210 / 225 when both are re-mapped.

Matt Classic

The S3 will give you performance and prestige, the Leon will give you performance and popular. (they're everywhere these days)

But then I'm biased

RS Grant

IMO, the Leon looks better than the S3, which IMO.. looks a little plain from the outside.

The Leon I drove was bright red with tinted windows and it looked the absolute nuts, mate said it looked great as I drove past the showroom in it.


Cheers,
Grant

Darren 01

Like cupramax I too had an early 210 LCR. I had the APR map (265bhp) and 53k miles under the bonnet when I sold it... Had to get an STI with PPP to get more performance/handling.
I would say the LCR is the best car I hav had for the price/power/handling. Didn't give me a massive smile like the STI, but it was a much better cruiser.

S3 is a nice car too though!

Spankathon

Not sure I would class the Cupra R as popular.... Cupra maybe, but not the 'R'

sgcooby

Regarding my earlier comments about the LCR dash, i still feel that the S3 's dash and interior is far classier. There are a lot of minor detail differences.....switches, radio, air con controls, dials, tacky red bits all over the place etc that change the whole feel of the cabin. Dont get me wrong the LCR interior is still better built than my plastic fantastic scoob and better than a lot of other cars but it does look and feel a bit tacky in comparison to the Audi. Same fundamental dash yes, but many many detail diferences. That aside it looks good externally but i think the S3 looks nicer but thats just personal opinion. 2wd is the killer for me. No way i could live with a 200bhp+ car in our climate with only front wheels driven.