Seeing some seriously good deals 2nd hand at the mo e.g. Aug '08 Type R GT's with sub 3k mileage for £14.5k on Honda Website and likewise on the Ford Website you can get an ST2 for £15.5k same sort of mileage/age.

I test drove the '08 STI and I really liked it but I dont fancy the higher running costs (notably insurance and Tax which is £430pa in 2010 ouch). The WRX looks too bland for me so am seriously considering an ST or CTR. Test drove the CTR over 6 months ago out of curiosity - need to do another.

Both cars are similar Power:Weight (I calculate 158 ps/tn civic and 156 focus) and both around 6.5secs 0-60 so would seem a dead heat in straightline performance. Below is a list of Pro's & Con's for each. Please feel free to point out anything Ive missed.

Pro's

-Civic: Light, nice interior, decent spec with GT pack, better mpg, looks better (imho), slick gearbox
-Focus: 5 pot burble, turbo'd so easy to mod, great handling (ran a 1.8tdci rental car and was a tidy drive)

Con's

-Civic: No torque, hard suspension, no cheap tuning options, stupid rear spoiler limiting view, reputation for understeering and vague steering feedback
-Focus: Poor fuel economy, very close to the 225 g/km C02 emissions band limit (who knows what the Govt will change next), not the best looking car out there, a bit lardy at 1437kg, chews through tyres with 10k miles avg for fronts.

What Id like is a CTR chassis with the ST engine and running gear

Cheers
Simon

 

ST is the one I would go for mate,and when the wifes TDCi is up for renewal next year I'll be getting her a ST3.
I know alot of people with them and they highly recommend them,one mate had one and the only thing he said about his was the fuel economy averaged around 20-22mpg regardless how you drive it.

 

My mate and his wife have an ST-3 (and an M3 and a S2000 - car nuts ). They like it but things keep breaking and Ford are being rubbish about fixing them under the warranty (which still has a year to run). Current things that don't work - rear parking sensors and automatic windscreen wipers...

If the 2nd hand prices weren't so crap they'd sell it not just due to bits breaking but mainly due to Ford being a pain in the **** about warranty repairs

 

Have a look on Pistonheads,some pre reg ST2's going for silly money(a few weeks back,havent checked recently).

 

I've owned both so my 2p...

ST:
Easy to mod? Well yes a no. Mine ran a remap, full exhaust, intercooler and induction and made just shy of 300bhp. The standard turbo won't do over 300bhp and mine was starting to show signs of high wear when I traded in at 33k miles. Front tyres last 6k miles.

Fuel economy, mine hovered around 22mpg the whole time I owned the car.

Cheap OEM parts and servicing.

Very comfy cruiser but the heavy nose really comprised the car on twisties and track IMO

CTR:
If you want to stay n/a then tuning isn't cheap but add a supercharger (JRSC, Rotrex etc.) and Hondata KPro ECU and you'll get 300bhp for only slightly more money than the ST's 300bhp.

Mpg much better than ST.

Marmite engine, you either love revving it or you don't. I love a high revving engine especially on track or spirited drive but everyday can be hard work.

 

the new civic type r lacks a lot of power. in the real world you i will be left standing buy a little corsa vxr. as for the focous ford FIX OR REPAIR DAILY.

I THINK if your looking for performance and great chassie dont look further than s3. 4wheel drive comfortable, turbo 0-60 in 5.6 seconds great for long journies practical enough to carry your shopping. and they are rear unlike the st and they new type r. one remap with an s/s milteck and panel filter you will have 330bhp with similar tourque very rare in white. and holds it value well.

 

You wont find a 6 month old S3 for £15k.

 

true

 

My mate had both. He preferred the ST. Although fuel costs were higher.

 

Golf GTI

 

motorseeker uk ltd : Brand new Focus ST 3 door 58 plate order now only

Aspect Motorcars : Ford Focus ST II 2008 Face Lift Model

allvehicles.co.uk : LOW MILEAGE ST3 NEW SHAPE

Just a few off Pistonheads at a quick glance.

 

i'll get something a bit different like the astra vxr nurburgring edition

wiley

 

I agree. I love the vxr and focus st. Had a drive a civic type r but had no intention of buying as it's **** is pig ugly. I thought it felt slower than my mates 55 reg type r even though they have lowered the vtec point. Also you don't feel a kick in vtec on the new type r's.

 

Focus st for me, though dont get an orange one.

 

Not driven either but the civic is a second quicker on the TG power lap if that matters.

Top Gear Test Track - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Did the ST not beat the VXR on Fifth Gear on their test track with old VBH driving them?

 

Which makes a mockery of Clarksons roadtest of the CTR (FN2) during which he slated it as having tonnes of understeer. With the ST he loved it and said it handled really well yet its [CTR] 1.4 secs faster around their circuit. That list does say foggy for the ST which could have cost a fair bit of time if your doing 100+ with poor visibility

Same for the STI which got slated but is same time as the Evo X FQ-300

Simon

 

Yep by .6 of a sec:

YouTube - Ford Focus ST vs Vauxhall Astra Fifth Gear

Simon

 

I have an older shape astra 1.6sxi at the moment and had a head gasket failure at 60k miles that took out the cylinder head = big bill so my confidence in Vauxhall is not great and the interiors I dont like. So not an option for me unfortunately.

Simon

 

But on that top gear test track board the Astra VXR was faster than the civic type r and the focus st.

 

Most of the 5th Gear timings are done by stopwatch or wristwatch - really accurate

Simon

 

Well I test drove both yesterday back to back. First the ST, actually an ST3 so with the leather recaros. Dealer was pretty poor - guy knew nothing about the different specs and had to refer to the brochure. Test drive was about 10 mins and he kept saying not to speed bla bla bla.

No real "this looks like a sports car" feeling when walking up to it. The drive was ok. Sound nice but felt very lardy and very sluggish / slow low in the rev range. By comparison getting back into my 1.6 Astra felt a lot nippier at lower speeds. The few times I did boot it the ST had a tendency to pull the car towards the centre of the road, conditions slightly wet. Didnt want to offer much off and lowest price was £18,350 ST2.

In contrast the Civic (in Milano Red) looks very good in the flesh especially with the 19" Rage wheels. Better seating position inside and definetly looks a higher quality inside. Ride is firm on the 19's but car feels sharp and agile even at low revs an throughout the rev range. I personally found it easier to drive through traffic etc. Good steering feedback and response. Dealer knew her stuff and the test drive was a good hour.

I also like the fold flat rear seats as means plenty of rooms for lugging around wakeboards, shooting kit and might even squeeze my MTB in there

Some great deals on the Type R's at the mo - list is £18,700 approx and straight away offered a GT at £17k with 0% finance. Ive done a bit more reading on the Type R forums and people are getting them as low as £15k new from Honda Dealers so seems like an absolute bargain compared to what Ford are offering.

I suppose I shouldnt be so shocked when comparing a Fat Hatch like the ST to a CTR but after all the praise heaped onto the ST even on here I was expecting a lot more.

So at the moment pretty tempted to order a CTR GT in Milano Red on an 09 plate. Just need the girlfriend to check if her cousin (honda salesman) can do me a better deal than locally.

Simon

 

There is no praise heaped onto the ST on here - well I think you'll find any post which does comments its crap until its had its £400 quid chip then its a completely different ball game

 

Which £400 chip are you referring to? The dreamscience unit? I'm getting a dreamscience for mine and I can't wait

 

Order the championship white edition and it will come with GT spec and LSD as standard, although you may not get such a good discount as you will on the regular version.

 

I had a look around a CWE at the dealers on sat and Im not that moved by white on a CTR tbh. The LSD would be nice but not at the prices they are going for currently as limited supply when you can get a GT for £15k new.

Im personally looking at a 2yr lease at the moment as works out about the same losses as depreciation on buying the car without tying up a big chunk of cash in a car and no hassles come sell up time just hand it back or get a new one (maybe CWE by then lol).

Simon

 

I am a petrolhead but anything with £430 VED puts me off now.

Driving a n/a car at the moment.Sometimes I do miss a turbo.Nice to get things going from about 2k revs rather than nothing till about 5k upwards.

Other times I feel completely the opposite and love an all out thrash

 

Yep I was tempted by the current Impreza (WRX-S or STI) but with £430 tax per year from 2010 its enough to put me off hence looking at the CTR and ST So Im using my practical head and going for the CTR due to lower running costs.

Simon

 

If you drive an ST off boost then it will achieve 30mpg easily. If it doesn't there is something wrong with it!

If you have a lead foot then obviously it comes down to 18- 23mpg

 

I prefer the civic as they sound fantastic and look good, but are a bit gutless IMO....the gearboxes on the type r's can be soft though, both my mates mashed up third gear on theirs

Not a focus fan myself to be honest