ive owned this 53 plate boxster for a year now it looks good with the 18" carreras and the optional bodykit with fixed rear spoiler its all show and no go unfortunately...... it just isnt fast enough for me!!!
so looking for more go this time round!!
iam thinking either same age 53plate e46 m3 which has 340 bhp or an imprezza but which one to go for theres so many models!!!dont want to pay over 15k

anyone know how often the cambelts need changed on the e46 m3 and an impreza?
thanks

 

M3 isn't fast enough either, neither is any standard Scooby.

M3 has no cam belt but you do have to check valve clearances.

 

Meh, in your eyes John but to most people an M3 is more than quick enough and it's quicker than the boxter. Problem is it won't feel that much quicker and that may be an issue. As john alludes to if you go the impreza route you'll need to modify and IMHO you want 400bhp+. If I was wanting a 400bhp 4wd car I'd get an Evo for that sort of money.

If it helps my mate has an e46 M3 and I had an classic STI with 315bhp. The scooby would have been quicker 0-60 and because of that 0-to about 110 or so. However, mid-range would have been about the same and if both gunning it from say 60mph the M3 would walk away after 90mph had been passed.

 

What about a 22B Impreza can you get one of them for £15k or are they staying around the £18 - £20k area.

 

I came out of a wet roundabout in the M3, T-uk was following in his 340 BHP classic. The M3 was surprisingly not disgraced at all to start with, it had instant torque (although not very much of it), good traction, and SMG 8000 RPM gearchanges with no lifting. However, a surprising thing then happened... once the Subaru could hold a longer gear it passed the M3 quite easily... at just the point where everyone on Scoobynet things they're invincible

E46 M3 is an over-rated piece of junk IMHO. They don't just feel slow, they ARE slow. What power they do have, they can only put down onto smooth tarmac.

 

aye maybe an imprezza sti jap one with 280bhp should be plenty fast i like straight line acceleration iam thinking m3.................or maybe scoob.
i think i could have alot of fun in a scoob where as the m3 i would need to be careful.

 

Your budget would buy an Evo IX... 400 BHP is a few mods away. I still love mine despite having a gearbox replacement to do, however, a nearly new replacement gearbox is less than a major service or a set of tyres on an M3, and much less than a year's warranty.

You'll look like even more of a tosser than you would in an M3, but at least the drive makes up for it.

 

haha yr right

 

John whats the mpg like on an evo?
whats the worst fuel consumption you seen on it eg £20 for 40 miles

 

I can't poo your experiences John but as you might imagine knowing a little about my personality I was never shy of indulging in speeds beyond 70mph during my ownership of the STI 5. Similarly when driving the M3 back from Lond....er, Germany, I call upon 140 and it was considerably quicker than the scooby above 90. I've not owned an M3 and I'm saying it was quicker than my own 315bhp STI at the higher ranges - no reason to make it up, just putting across my own experience

 

I'm with JB here. An M3 can be fast, but only when you wring its neck. Mid-range power is nothing special at all. Typical of a revvy normally aspirated motor that can't hold a candle to the mid-range power you get from a turbo engine with similar peak bhp.

The other thing about turbos is the increasing rate of increased accelleration (if you take my meaning) as the turbo gets on it. The shove in the back that gets harder as the revs climb, rather than staying constant. A 320-350bhp Impreza is fast for sure, and it feels even faster Scoobs are light, too.

If the OP wants something significantly quicker than a Boxster, not just some of the time but all of the time, then a Scoob is quite a hard act to beat. Very hard actually. Only an Evo betters it, but they are too relentlessly performance focused and uncompromising for my taste. Just an opinion.

£15k buys a very nice WR1 with change to spare. I've driven one a bit and it's a very well sorted and fast car indeed. And it will hold its value better than almost any other Scoob. There are loads of modded Scoobs that will do the job at real bargain prices if you know what you're buying...

Check out AutoTrader and blag a WR1 test drive. You'll get the hang of it after ten seconds down a straight bit. Then find a few nice turns. Then reach for your cheque book

Richard.

 

I would start to lay the haggle down on an RB320. The hardest thing to explain is the feeling you get in a scooby. I have driven M3's and they feel like well put together cars, Fast enough, look good, but you get out of them and you have just got out of a car.
With a sccoby you get out of the car smiling and looking forward to the drive home.
That's the reason you should go scoob!!

 

Yes I am down on the M3 because I had one in a Scottish winter, and yes there is impressive traction and lateral grip on smooth, dry tarmac. However, the brakes are terrible and wilt far too quickly, the suspension has inadequate compliance on a bumpy road so it skips around too much bouncing from hedge to hedge and you literally can't stay in your seat and maintain a steady throttle, with superb skill I suppose you could influence how it lands with a bit more confidence, but in a Scooby or Evo their tyres stay on the tarmac in these circumstances, or they land better. M3s and 911s do not land well from what I've seen. M3 rear suspension mounting is rather dainty especially given the size and weight of the wheels it is carrying, they just don't seem built for hard use. With proper brakes, longer travel suspension, better steering feel and a harness to hold you in your seat the M3 could be good. As standard, it is simply rubbish. Take an M3 down the road by Knockhill, it is simply terrible.

The lowest economy I've had on the Evo is 18mpg, I average 25mpg. Very similar to the M3. Presently, I'd still rather look like the biggest tosser living in the Evo than have another E46 M3. The E9x M3 may be better with EDC.

Kenny, there seems to be a lot of difference between the acceleration of 300-350 BHP Scoobies, T-uk has always preferred to quote the worst RR figures and then blow everyone away

 

As I said, I don't doubt your story. With another 30-35bhp I'd expect my 1250kg classic would have been markedly faster than it was even at higher speeds.

I guess it's all down to what you want out of your car. I liked both my scoobies but I did start to feel like a bit of a plank driving them (more so the 2nd one). M3 strikes me as a lovely all round car and provided you can get over the BMW 'image' then I think they make a nice overall ownership proposition.

 

Is the M3 really that much of a step up in performance from a '03 3.2s 255hp / 1420kg compared to 333hp / 1550kg for the beemer?

Thats about 30 more bhp per tonne so not amazing difference and Id have thought the boxster would make up for that in handling??

Simon

 

The Boxster has proper brakes, suspension compliance and steering feel I wouldn't trade that for +30 BHP/ton.

 

the brakes in my car look awesome big red callipers and drilled discs but.......their ****e even in the other ones i test drove you need to press hard they come accross as normal brakes.

i had a test drive of a mini cooper works which had the works brakes and i nearly went through the windscreen i had no idea they were that good i kept doing emergency stops by accident on the test drive when wanting to slow down for traffic lights they are very sensitive!!!!

i think 30% is alot considering its the same engine size of 3.2 litres what worries me is the vanos thing is there any way to tell if its broken?

evo scares me a bit with the ownership costs with short service intervals and not the following that the imprezza has i get the impression people are less helpful with evo ownership compared to owning an imprezza.
regarding the gearbox on the evo ive seen an evo advertised before saying new gearbox at 30k miles!!! that is scary!!

so the ones to look out for are the wr1 and rb320 any other ones?

 

John u can pm me if u want but what area u from iam from outside Glasgow
how much is a service for an evo?
and what warranty company do u use how much is a years warranty?
cheers

 

If it were my 15k then I'd seriously consider a Hawkeye STi as well. Basic re-map, filter and exhaust will transform the way the car drives in the mid range.. making it a very useable point to point car.

You might want to join scottishscoobies.co.uk and introduce yourself. Might also be worth trying to get down to a Knockhill Track Session with SIDC... I'm sure that you could wangle a couple of passenger runs with some of the members, which would give you an idea about what a 300, 350, 400+ bhp Impreza feels like when being used properly.


Cheers,
Grant

 

I am in Fife. My gearbox has gone at 24000 miles, but I do run an amount of boost that would result in knicker elastic snapping if mentioned on a Subaru board I don't have warranty now. The Evo is expensive to service at dealers, cheap at independents. The 4500 mile service interval for the oil is only sensible on a heavily turbocharged engine, too much fuel gets in the oil otherwise. There are some hydraulics on the fancy diffs that need regular maintenance.

If you don't mind losing the maniac/brilliant steering, hilarious turn in and tail led cornering stance, and want something more refined, a Subaru is brilliant. They do have issues with their engines though: the 2.0 is strong but has a narrow power band, the 2.5 is weak but has a wider power band. I didn't want to pull the engine in a new 2.5 STI to make it handle 400 BHP safely, so I bought the Evo. I did run a stock 2.5 engine up to near or about 500 BHP on a GT30R on my last Subaru, but it wouldn't hold together.

I would happily change my Evo for a Subaru with a 2.5 with forged pistons and then fit a decent turbo to it. However, for a daily driver when I want a factory built engine, I prefer the Evo. The 2.0 goes very much like a 2.5 Subaru engine - stock turbo spools at 2500 RPM and does 400 BHP.

 

Oh yea, definitely from an out the box potential... the EVO will go further without being fiddled with, 400 and above will require opening of the 2.5 STi engine and forged internals to run 'safely' for extended hard use, although I'm sure some will disagree and provide examples.

Even a standard STi or EVO will provide a reasonably big jump in 'sensation' of speed and power over the Boxster S... a friend has just collected a Hawkeye STi and I'd forgotten how nice they were to be in as standard to be honest.

A question for the OP, what sort of use will this car get?? I guess from the E46 M3 option, its a powerful daily drive that you're looking for??


Cheers,
Grant

 

What you're feeling on the Mini is the servo squeezing the brakes for you, which has nothing do with how they will actually stop you, repeatedly.

Any car must be able to stop you safely from high speed, in emergency stop mode. Once. Good brakes will do it time and again, which is what you'll be doing on a track day. If you really want to find out how good the brakes are, then do a 100-5mph stop, on a dry road as hard as you dare. Be careful! Then bang them on like Lewis Hamilton heading for a hairpin. Don't let the car come to a stop, as the brakes will be red hot and will roast/boil - keep rolling slowly. Good brakes will trigger the ABS immediately and haul you down with amazing ferocity. Then turn straight around and do the same thing again. Then trun around and, checking that the road is safe and you've got plenty of run-off area, do it again. Pukka brakes will survive this treatment unfased, but most normal road car brakes will go spongey half way throught he third run, if not before

Richard.

 

you wont regret getting an M3. I had two STIs (bug and blob) and have driven countless others before i bought an imola red M3 with an smg box. There really was no comparison between the cars, your talking about 45k vrs 25kish. Ok i agree on slipperly roads the subaru is safer to drive but in the M3 you really feel involved in the driving experience. I would have another one in a flash, significantly faster than a standard STI escpecailly above 60 and a match for a mates 320bhp classic. M3 also much more comfortable and is finished properly inside.
Dont get me wrong i loved my scoobies but i would have another M3 in a flash (but a manual this time).

 

All this talk of tuning Evo or subaru...... Thats one of the major appeal to me about the BMW M3. As well as being quick and screwed together. Its 343bhp (not pub talk BHP that some claim - JB and RS not included) out of the box through 2wd trans losses. the M3 can be thrashed within and inch of its life all day long and do it every day of the week.

The BMW will last the test of time and happily do 150K miles. I've had many a tuned scoob,Evo or Toyota, some forged and nearly all of them cost me dearly in repairs at one stage or another. My mates however have owned the same E46 M3's for years and other that a service once a year never missed a beat and they drive them hard. They however have now bought and paid for there cars and still have a nice car to show for it, where as I has a 1K 306GTI6.

Personal lesson learnt, you want a fast car, buy a fast car as standard.

 

I quite fancied an M3 next but had a pop at a cab in my Saab and it didnt pull away, was making a lot of noise but not a lot of forward progress, I am sure it would evnetually have pulled some distance but we did 4 accelerations from roundabouts and I was all over it, 9-3 Aero with 250 bhp and 288 lbs ft, so its off my list, I dont want crappy Saabs giving me a hard time

 

I had some fun with an M3 in the 9k Aero - I gave it a good roasting quite surprised me! (I dont get out much). Although I am about 420bhp / 400ft lbs and it's only my 3rd gear one trick pony that really does the business. Fun though! Convinced me the hold onto the old barge for a bit more.

Need to put an old Saab B234 engine in these scoobies to get big power methinks... tough cookies good for nearly 500 on stock internals.

Net: I'd of course love a nice new M3.... Although would feel a bit of a f4nny driving it tbh.
Image aside the boxter is a superb car. Easy to make a car go fast in a straight line (as I have proven) but Boxter is quite a special car that all round is hard to beat tbh. Swap for old saab?

 

You were 'surprised' that a 420bhp turbo'd fwd car that is lighter than an M3 (presumably) roasted a 343bhp rwd n/a car??

 

My car is so dull no-one ever 'has a go' so completely un-compared to anything else (ever). So a) It's not been dynoed - all theory and b) It's all my own tinkering.
So yes - I was surprised that it saw off some 'proper' german machinery with such contempt - Even more surprised that I didnt leave bits of car coming off behind me. Fortunately there were no corners involved....

 

Wash your mouth out! All of Scoobynet knows that a random Saab engineer was right all those years ago (and especialy right now Clarkson quotes it) in saying FWD can only take 200bhp.

No, really, time hasn't moved on.