Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Thinking about junking the RA sometime this year or early next.
Its early days at the moment but how about a diesel track car?

330d
coilovers
APs
Handling package
Remap
Aero kit.

Advantages:
Cheap to buy (breaking my RA should net me an 02/3 plate)
fantastic economy
reliability


Disadvantages:
taxi soundtrack
rev range

please add to the advantages/disadvantages and enlighten me why I should persevere with the RA....

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

Sounds to me like you need to drive one if you haven't already - I think you'll be in for a surprise or two.

It's quite heavy for starters, certainly nowhere near as agile as a scooby. Economy isn't that great, though for a track car I can't see that being too important.

On the plus side it actually sounds pretty good from inside the car, with a muted 'woofle' not unlike a big V8. It's also surprisingly willing to rev for a big diesel, though power does tail off very suddenly as you reach the 5000 rpm red line.

For everyday transport it's a hard act to follow, but it wouldn't be my first choice for track use - maybe a petrol 330i instead?

Andy M3

I would have to agree with Andy - it is pretty good on the road, but not exactly ideal for track work. Plus there is the reliability issue, cost of parts etc.

We ran one for 5 years as a company car, managed 80k ish and cost almost as much as we bought it for in running costs excluding fuel!!!

Sounds as though you have £12k-£15k to spend on a track car, I would personally try an E36 M3 if you are a bit of a BMW man, or there is always the purpose built caterhams and stuff too.

Track Day Cars : Rare M3 GT Race / Track car

RS Grant

Main reason behind keeping the RA is that it'll be a known quantity and presumably you've already ploughed a few k into its development.

The 330d is pretty quick as standard, our 2005 330d Cabrio is around the same sort of pace as a friends 2005 WRX PPP and marginally quicker than another friends 2002 STi Bugeye. I'm guessing the tin-top variants are possibly a bit quicker/more economical due to slightly less weight than the Cabrio version.

One thing that you will definitely need, specially if upping the power/torque, is a 'proper' LSD.. it may/may not be what you meant by Handling Pack, but I'd be sticking a quaife in there for track use because the car does like to spin an inside wheel with the dsc turned off.

Top Gear did a 330d Race Car, although probably not strictly factual bit of tv, I'm sure the upgrades on the car were 100% pukka. They had AP brakes, cage, buckets, aero pack (spoiler and front splitter/undertray), lightweight wheels and coilover suspension.... I'm sure they remapped it too, however, this wasn't mentioned.

Stu @ MSD said that he mapped a 330d (could of been another MSD member?) with basic upgrades (exhaust, filter etc) and to 100mph, it was on a par with his E39 M5.. which is pretty high praise IMO, and shows the potential is there.

My money would go on an older stripped out and sorted E36 3.0 M3 for track work though.


Cheers,
Grant

billythekid

Not suitable IMO.

Too heavy, hard on tyres, limited top end power.

Lots and lots of other suitable cars.

If you are doing plenty of track days why not consider a BEC?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

I thought the top gear car was a 320d?
I want a car that isnt as stressed as the RA, I also want a car that after 2 consecutive laps of the ring will not require standing up in the car park with the bonnet up for an hour or two.
M3 was the obvious choice, but the fuel and tuning costs are prohibitive upon initial investigation.

RS Grant

Nah, it was a 330d.... just had another wee watch of it actually.


Cheers,
Grant

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

another stipulation would be that the RA is raw as hell, that long trip through belgium can reak havoc on the buttocks.
it is truly ballistic stripped out with over 400bhp.

Relative comfort of beemer for a drop in power seems a reasonable compramise.

Although the 330d is forced induction, I dont want another petrol turbo car I want something easier to live with

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I'd get the 330D and use it to tow the RA to the circuit and back... best of both worlds that way

Mark1983

iTrader: (2)

The E40 by any chance

Personally I would go with an E36 M3 although if your budget is £12k-15k ,E46 M3's can be had for £9k now.

330dan

hi - ive got an e46 330d. its a quality motor - as stated above it sounds like a v8 inside and the torque is unbelievable. It still surprises me now after 18 months. A remap and will give you good gains - but if you are into modding and tuning - there is very little else to improve power. How have you come to the decision of an e46 330d for a race car by the way? I know a bloke who specialises in tuning bmws - especially 330d's. He did a gumball rally in an e46 tuned to about 300bhp and now has an e90 330d which with tuning and lsd etc i hear is exceptionally able around a track.

It is a very different car to an impreza, more so a type r i would imagine. I am looking to get an impreza at the moment and dont really want to sell my 330d but cant justify 2 cars in the current climate really. and the 330d is just too good all round to sell.

Besides i thought i definately wanted a blob sti ppp, then it was p1, now im looking at v5 type r's and rb5's! Its difficult without driving them all!

330dan

peanuts - why do you want to break your type ra? is that because it has loads of mods worth selling or because its on its last legs? what ages / version is it?

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

its a my95 wrx sti typeRA. version2.
its stripped out as a dedicated track toy.
forged 2.5L, PPG 5 speed straight cut synchro box, md321T, simtek, APS front mount, massive brakes, coilovers, all the whiteline gear etc
presently running 420brake with another 50 or so to come on the next mapping session.
Not really a good idea to sell in the current climate, but the mods are all good and top spec so breaking it is the only real option.

It seems I get as much (if not more) joy building the cars than driving them afterwards.

At the moment I run this, a mazda6 diesel and a toyota celica as my cars on the drive, I think a breathed on 330d might see me able to bin all 3 and have just the 1 car and 2 extra spaces on the drive.

330dan

ok - well i would have though a 420bhp typeRA would cane any 330d but maybe not on a track????

If you go for an e46 make sure you get the 204bhp model which was introduced around 2003 / 04. i have the facelift 02 plate but is still the older 187bhp engine. the newer one got 6 speed box too and is 100cc larger displacement.

the newer e90 models have even more bhp and i think there are already 2 330d engines in the e90 guise.

If you enjoy building the cars as much as driving them there is plenty you could do to the bm. I'd love to see a proper stripped out racer 330d - the one on top gear was quality. Just bear in mind there is very little you can do to the engine especially compared to an impreza. apart from the nature of the engine, due to lack of demand there are not many aftermarket mods. e.g. only a few exhausts will work due to specific back pressure that the turbo requires. You cant get aftermarket ecu's, ive never found interchangable turbos, etc. mainly leaves a remap. As I said - i know a bloke that hsa done all the above - but it was v. expensive and there arent as many people out there fitting these mods as prople on bm forums seems to believe.

I know with diesels you can squeeze more power out buy increasing fueling but results in lots more black smoke - not so much of a problem if not a road car.

AndyC_772

iTrader: (2)

I believe the propshaft and gearbox are next to go if you up the torque too far. Some tuners actually map the car for a bit less torque if you have a manual gearbox for this reason, the auto is a bit stronger (though v expensive to replace if it does break).

I have a 330d and a completely standard STI v2. The BMW is no slouch, of course, but it definitely feels sluggish and heavy if I've been driving the scooby for a few days. Personally I like its fluid, smooth handling but I think you'd find it seriously lacking in power after your RA. All that torque means it's competitive in the traffic light drag race, but it's still a diesel so you'll always be a gear higher than you'd like on the track.

If you really want one as a track car then weight saving is the way to go IMHO. The 330d has a lot of interior trim, sound proofing and stuff, which I've no doubt would transform the car if you could junk it all.

It would, of course, start sounding like a tractor again if you did...

rickya

iTrader: (18)

I v had my E46 330d se for 4 years & my mates had his 330d sport for 3 years. None of us would even consider taking ours on the track, let alone make a track car out of it. Theyr just too heavy, especially front heavy. Theyr not that fast, even with a remap & the diesel engine may have torque, but runs out revs too quickly in each gear. IMO there are far better alternatives. e.g stripped out E30 325i or E36 325i or 328i

billythekid

How much are you looking for the RA? I might be interested.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

Im not, it would be broken rather than outright sold.

Any car I get from here on will be a compramise, especially on the power front, but thats something I have to accept.
However, in exchange I will get more comfort, better economy and save tax/insurance on 2 of my cars

jonc

I think it would be absolutely ideal, as proven by these dudes:
BMW 330d Endurance Race

dbrad

iTrader: (26)

keep the RA, you will regret it if you break it. (give me a shout if you do though!!!)

GPD

iTrader: (-1)

I think it would be worth watching the topgear episode on their version of an e46 diesel track day car.

NotoriousREV

I believe that VBH uses one as a trackday car (or at least she was using one at Oulton recently)

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

So we've gone from no way to maybe to possibly...
I'm not denying it would be a ****e site slower than the RA, most production stuff is, but the payback is I get to run 2 less cars, thats a big saving in anyones book and thats without the sale value.
So I'm basically looking for the best compromise.
Anything highly strung and N/A is going to still cost big, both purchase and tuning, diesel's getting better by the year so seems almost worth a punt.
The topgear car is a great example of what I'm on about, not anything like quick as the exotica, but certainly no slouch and I'm guessing even fun to drive home afterwards.