e46 m3 vs 911 c2 996
#1
e46 m3 vs 911 c2 996
Right,
So ive been looking for a nice m3 for a while, around 16k, taking my time. Was a big toss up between that and a tvr. the tvr lost after lots of research.
Now i was driving to work today and was behind a gorgous 02 porsche. Quick look on piston heads and u can pick up a 99 c2 911 with 50-70k on the clock for a similar price.
Wonder if anyone has experiance of the two?
So ive been looking for a nice m3 for a while, around 16k, taking my time. Was a big toss up between that and a tvr. the tvr lost after lots of research.
Now i was driving to work today and was behind a gorgous 02 porsche. Quick look on piston heads and u can pick up a 99 c2 911 with 50-70k on the clock for a similar price.
Wonder if anyone has experiance of the two?
#2
Porsche : Porsche 911 996 Carrera 2s Tiptronic,54k Turbo Styling for example
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1461744.htm
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1469108.htm +CSL rims
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1438337.htm for example
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1461744.htm
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1469108.htm +CSL rims
http://pistonheads.com/sales/1438337.htm for example
Last edited by scoobyc; 04 February 2010 at 07:40 PM.
#3
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1998 911's never had 320bhp. More like 286bhp. That 911 looks a bit odd to me. C4S front bumper, GT3 alloys. To me it doesn't look right, and his write up looks a little desperate. 100% rear wheel drive? to most C2's secretly have 4WD?
Do you need more than 2 seats? If so, M3.
The 911 is higher milage than the M3's, and thus more could go wrong with the 911. Porsche parts wil be expensive.
Both will cost about the same to run and insure.
Come selling on time, the 911 will have even greater miles, and could put people off.
Out of the 2 options? I'd say M3.
Do you need more than 2 seats? If so, M3.
The 911 is higher milage than the M3's, and thus more could go wrong with the 911. Porsche parts wil be expensive.
Both will cost about the same to run and insure.
Come selling on time, the 911 will have even greater miles, and could put people off.
Out of the 2 options? I'd say M3.
#5
My brother has a 996 as daily commute car, and a couple of my mates have E46 M3's. Last year we went to le-man with these along with some other cars, and we all chop and change passenger and sometime driver seats along the way.
996 nice car, but basic interior and a bit clunky, goes pretty well with 286bhp but very linear and doesn't feel quick at all. However it does cover ground quickly and capable of 160+ MPH. Its a nice car but its all about the badge IMO. The E46 M3 is a far better car in every respect IMO, and a fair bit quicker both in stright line and in the twisties and the cabin is a very nice place to be.
Thats said perhaps I'm a wanabe snob, but I would stil have a 996, as its not all about speed and handling for me these days.
Also note the 996 had engine issues, get yourself on the forums. When/if the engines go, they generally can't be rebuilt, they need replacement engines which is serious wonga.!
996 nice car, but basic interior and a bit clunky, goes pretty well with 286bhp but very linear and doesn't feel quick at all. However it does cover ground quickly and capable of 160+ MPH. Its a nice car but its all about the badge IMO. The E46 M3 is a far better car in every respect IMO, and a fair bit quicker both in stright line and in the twisties and the cabin is a very nice place to be.
Thats said perhaps I'm a wanabe snob, but I would stil have a 996, as its not all about speed and handling for me these days.
Also note the 996 had engine issues, get yourself on the forums. When/if the engines go, they generally can't be rebuilt, they need replacement engines which is serious wonga.!
#7
Yes they can.
Hartech in Bolton can rebuild one with strengthened internals for way less than a secondhand engine with no history with it.
Even if the nikasil liners have cracked/crumbled, they can still rebuild.
If you're going to buy what was essentially a £70k - £80k car when new, you shouldn't expect to run it with the bills of a £10k Fiesta.
Anyway, the first of the 996's in 1998 had 300 bhp as standard.
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#10
Vanos issues are only with the E36 and Doctor vanos can sort these now for sensible money.
The E46 is pretty much bullet proof. The early ones did have a big end issue, but this was covered under a factory BMW recall. Rear springs break on all of them, but apart from that bullet proof cars and engines.
996 engine was the weakest of the lot. The earlier 993 aircooled 911's are a much nicer car IMO, looks similar easier and strong to up keep. But the 993's demand a premium price.
The E46 is pretty much bullet proof. The early ones did have a big end issue, but this was covered under a factory BMW recall. Rear springs break on all of them, but apart from that bullet proof cars and engines.
996 engine was the weakest of the lot. The earlier 993 aircooled 911's are a much nicer car IMO, looks similar easier and strong to up keep. But the 993's demand a premium price.
#11
#12
I am a big porsche guy, but at that money I would have to question the purchase myself.
For starters, the 996 is the "worst" 911.
Of all the P cars you can buy the 996 would be quite low down my list - unless it was a GT3 or turbo.
If I was buying a 996 I would be putting £25k into the car.
The 3.6 engine is known for being a tad ropey. Dont get me wrong 99% of cars will be fine - but if they go - they go big time.
What ever 996 you get I would have a £3k slush fund on hand.
993 prices reflect this. All but the dregs are over £25k. And a nice one will set you back £30k. Lots and lots of 996s below these prices.
I think a better option would be a 2.7 987. A bad time to buy (spring) as the prices are firm, but if you put an extra £2k onto your budget you could do it quite easily.
I think it would be more reliable, probably 99% as quick in the real world and will be cheaper to run.
I had a Boxster before my 911 and I really enjoyed it.
Having thought about a 911 for a couple of years the decision I made in the end was that you cant go "cheap" on these cars. And now I have been running one for a while I can tell you thats about the case.
I think the Boxster would give you the best bang for your buck.
HTH
For starters, the 996 is the "worst" 911.
Of all the P cars you can buy the 996 would be quite low down my list - unless it was a GT3 or turbo.
If I was buying a 996 I would be putting £25k into the car.
The 3.6 engine is known for being a tad ropey. Dont get me wrong 99% of cars will be fine - but if they go - they go big time.
What ever 996 you get I would have a £3k slush fund on hand.
993 prices reflect this. All but the dregs are over £25k. And a nice one will set you back £30k. Lots and lots of 996s below these prices.
I think a better option would be a 2.7 987. A bad time to buy (spring) as the prices are firm, but if you put an extra £2k onto your budget you could do it quite easily.
I think it would be more reliable, probably 99% as quick in the real world and will be cheaper to run.
I had a Boxster before my 911 and I really enjoyed it.
Having thought about a 911 for a couple of years the decision I made in the end was that you cant go "cheap" on these cars. And now I have been running one for a while I can tell you thats about the case.
I think the Boxster would give you the best bang for your buck.
HTH
#13
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Regardless of how bad the 996 might be, i couldn't even think about a boxster as an alternative.
The box may be a fantastic car in it's own right, but if you are considering a 911 to start with then it just won't cut it
The box may be a fantastic car in it's own right, but if you are considering a 911 to start with then it just won't cut it
#14
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I have owned a 993 C2 and I think it exemplifies the problem with the standard 911s - which is exactly what is said above.
The basic aspirated 911 (993 and 996) are just so capable, linear and are powered well within their limits that they can feel less than exciting. They are very quick though, deceptively so and will cover huge distances in great comfort.
A 993 is a better long term prospect, but will cost a lot more. I sold one nearly five years ago now and I am sure it would be worth more now than when I sold it. It had had seven owners in seven years (and I owned it for two) and still sold easily at advertised price. A 996 would struggle.
Running costs are about the same or even slightly less than the BMW - unless something goes badly wrong. Porsche parts are eye wateringly expensive - I speak from experience!
The Boxster is a good buy, but a completely different car. Evo did a test a couple of years ago and almost all drivers were quicker on track in a Boxster than an 911 - but all wanted to own the 911!
The basic aspirated 911 (993 and 996) are just so capable, linear and are powered well within their limits that they can feel less than exciting. They are very quick though, deceptively so and will cover huge distances in great comfort.
A 993 is a better long term prospect, but will cost a lot more. I sold one nearly five years ago now and I am sure it would be worth more now than when I sold it. It had had seven owners in seven years (and I owned it for two) and still sold easily at advertised price. A 996 would struggle.
Running costs are about the same or even slightly less than the BMW - unless something goes badly wrong. Porsche parts are eye wateringly expensive - I speak from experience!
The Boxster is a good buy, but a completely different car. Evo did a test a couple of years ago and almost all drivers were quicker on track in a Boxster than an 911 - but all wanted to own the 911!
#15
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911 everytime, as above now I won a porsche can confirm the spares are pricey but an M3 at 17k now is an old bmw worth 4k at best in 10 years time, A 996 at 17k now is a 996 at more or less the same money in 10 years time.
A BMW might have more gadgets etc but the feeling of owning and driving a Porsche is like nothing else.
If you were looking at a 10k 996 I would question why it was so cheap and over look it but if the money is right 996 have just about bottomed out, some are saying they bottomed out a year or two ago and they are on the way back up, and 911 history shows this is always the case, for me it would be the Porsche every time.
An M3 can go past me and I will think wideboy or 318 with an Mtec kit, If a 911 goes past you know its a 911.
A BMW might have more gadgets etc but the feeling of owning and driving a Porsche is like nothing else.
If you were looking at a 10k 996 I would question why it was so cheap and over look it but if the money is right 996 have just about bottomed out, some are saying they bottomed out a year or two ago and they are on the way back up, and 911 history shows this is always the case, for me it would be the Porsche every time.
An M3 can go past me and I will think wideboy or 318 with an Mtec kit, If a 911 goes past you know its a 911.
#17
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Whats a decent Porsche UK Forum to use, something along the lines of Scoobynet/Passionford would be brilliant. I wouldn't mind doing a bit of reading up on them either, just out of interest more than any immediate desire to buy one.
Cheers,
Grant
Cheers,
Grant
#19
Well.
Thought i would post an update.
Test drove a couple 991 c2's on the weekend. And i can fairly say i can ruel them out. Their just not pokey enough, dated inside, and bad driving position for someone 6'1 which surprised me. IMO the m3 beats it hands down in alot of areas.
So 911 rueled out!
Thought i would post an update.
Test drove a couple 991 c2's on the weekend. And i can fairly say i can ruel them out. Their just not pokey enough, dated inside, and bad driving position for someone 6'1 which surprised me. IMO the m3 beats it hands down in alot of areas.
So 911 rueled out!
#21
Well.
Thought i would post an update.
Test drove a couple 991 c2's on the weekend. And i can fairly say i can ruel them out. Their just not pokey enough, dated inside, and bad driving position for someone 6'1 which surprised me. IMO the m3 beats it hands down in alot of areas.
So 911 rueled out!
Thought i would post an update.
Test drove a couple 991 c2's on the weekend. And i can fairly say i can ruel them out. Their just not pokey enough, dated inside, and bad driving position for someone 6'1 which surprised me. IMO the m3 beats it hands down in alot of areas.
So 911 rueled out!
#22
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Very good thread, sorry for bring up an oldies, well not that old, I'm pretty much heading for the exact same situation as Scoobyc.
Scoobyc did you end up getting the M3? i'm going to go down the same route as you and go for test drives etc.
I too am 6'1 and am now worried after reading your line about the seating position :-( mentally im setting myself as getting a porsche just because i love them so much and its one of them things i just want to do in my life
Scoobyc did you end up getting the M3? i'm going to go down the same route as you and go for test drives etc.
I too am 6'1 and am now worried after reading your line about the seating position :-( mentally im setting myself as getting a porsche just because i love them so much and its one of them things i just want to do in my life
#24
Very good thread, sorry for bring up an oldies, well not that old, I'm pretty much heading for the exact same situation as Scoobyc.
Scoobyc did you end up getting the M3? i'm going to go down the same route as you and go for test drives etc.
I too am 6'1 and am now worried after reading your line about the seating position :-( mentally im setting myself as getting a porsche just because i love them so much and its one of them things i just want to do in my life
Scoobyc did you end up getting the M3? i'm going to go down the same route as you and go for test drives etc.
I too am 6'1 and am now worried after reading your line about the seating position :-( mentally im setting myself as getting a porsche just because i love them so much and its one of them things i just want to do in my life
Also the engine issues mentioned earlier affects the n/a 997 and Boxster, just as much as the 996 as I think they are essentially the same engines.
If you go to the Hartech site you'll find plenty of information.
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Cheers MMT, yeah i'm looking around on 996 forums and they are loaded with info. Hartech is very well regarded.
You lucky bugger being able to go for a Turbo...
My budget will probably be just about enough to cover my for a decent 996.
I can't wait to get a test drive in either a 996 or 997, any idea's of good places to go down in the south east....
You lucky bugger being able to go for a Turbo...
My budget will probably be just about enough to cover my for a decent 996.
I can't wait to get a test drive in either a 996 or 997, any idea's of good places to go down in the south east....
#26
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I had to make the same decision two months ago, and I ended up going for the M3, it had more toys, the interior is far nicer, car is more reliable and IMHO looks prettier... well more aggressive!
The Porsche was cheaper to insure and cheaper to service amazingly!!
The Porsche Tip box is very lazy, not for people that like to drive and the front end feels light....
M3 all day long chap
The Porsche was cheaper to insure and cheaper to service amazingly!!
The Porsche Tip box is very lazy, not for people that like to drive and the front end feels light....
M3 all day long chap
#29
Cheers MMT, yeah i'm looking around on 996 forums and they are loaded with info. Hartech is very well regarded.
You lucky bugger being able to go for a Turbo...
My budget will probably be just about enough to cover my for a decent 996.
I can't wait to get a test drive in either a 996 or 997, any idea's of good places to go down in the south east....
You lucky bugger being able to go for a Turbo...
My budget will probably be just about enough to cover my for a decent 996.
I can't wait to get a test drive in either a 996 or 997, any idea's of good places to go down in the south east....
Pistonheads Porsche forum
Pistonheads classified
http://www.used-porsche.co.uk/
http://www.jzmporsche.com/
http://www.rsjsportscars.co.uk/
http://www.portiacraft.com/default.asp
http://www.911virgin.com/
http://www.paragon.gb.com/
HTH
Mick
Edit: Ive picked you one Makes the M3 look a bit girly
Last edited by MMT WRX; 14 September 2010 at 08:44 PM.
#30
You can't beat a bit of Pork.
Well, turbo'd Pork anyway.
I was very close this week to chopping mine in for a 997tt, but after looking into it I realised that for an extra £35k I wasn't going to get an extra £35k worth of car.
You won't be able to run it on a tight budget (not saying that was your intention) - I'd say you should put aside £1500 - £2k for repairs/running/servicing in your first 18 months.
As MMT says , do your homework on these and if you get a good one, not much can touch it for the feel good factor.
Oh, I'm 6' 4" and have absolutely no problem fitting.
Good luck
Well, turbo'd Pork anyway.
I was very close this week to chopping mine in for a 997tt, but after looking into it I realised that for an extra £35k I wasn't going to get an extra £35k worth of car.
You won't be able to run it on a tight budget (not saying that was your intention) - I'd say you should put aside £1500 - £2k for repairs/running/servicing in your first 18 months.
As MMT says , do your homework on these and if you get a good one, not much can touch it for the feel good factor.
Oh, I'm 6' 4" and have absolutely no problem fitting.
Good luck
Last edited by zip106; 14 September 2010 at 09:33 PM.