Chris Harris - kicking off BIG time about Ferrari......
#1
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Chris Harris - kicking off BIG time about Ferrari......
#2
Scooby Regular
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Here, There, Everywhere
Posts: 10,619
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmm, very interesting. I knew a Ferrari pit crew tag along with every test drive (as pictured in magazines), but didn't know they took 2 cars, 1 being tuned for straight line speed.
I guess this does take the shin off ferrari for me a little bit. Would I own one? Damn right I would. But I wouldn't be confident about just how fast it was anymore.
I guess this does take the shin off ferrari for me a little bit. Would I own one? Damn right I would. But I wouldn't be confident about just how fast it was anymore.
#4
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And it still lost in the Autocar Driver's Car of the Year/evo Driver's Car of the Year.
I remember that 360 test - it is was 2s faster to 100 than any of it's competitor's or any customer car. Pretty impressive.
I remember that 360 test - it is was 2s faster to 100 than any of it's competitor's or any customer car. Pretty impressive.
Trending Topics
#9
This is classic Kettle calling the (blank)...Hypocritical really, the makers have all been playing this game with the magazines since the 90's. Now Ferrari plays extra dirty and the boys get mad. We need a free press, that is not funded by the car industry for god sakes,j
#10
Scooby Senior
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Radiator Springs
Posts: 14,810
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did I hear summat about the E types released to the press were all super quick in comparison to customer cars?
Regardless, I don't understand the fuss about car reviews, Top Gear included. I wouldn't buy a car recommended by anyone, a magazine, a TV show, Schumacher, Loeb... I really don't care what anyone else thinks, I buy cars that I like!
Regardless, I don't understand the fuss about car reviews, Top Gear included. I wouldn't buy a car recommended by anyone, a magazine, a TV show, Schumacher, Loeb... I really don't care what anyone else thinks, I buy cars that I like!
#11
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,350
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
This is classic Kettle calling the (blank)...Hypocritical really, the makers have all been playing this game with the magazines since the 90's. Now Ferrari plays extra dirty and the boys get mad. We need a free press, that is not funded by the car industry for god sakes,j
#15
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And the reality is, Chris is not the first person to hint at the blatant manipulation of press cars by Ferrari.
Witness the Autocar DCOTY test = they turned up with a full engineering team to 'optimise' the car. They have two cars, one for track and one for road.
It's not exactly a surprise.
Witness the Autocar DCOTY test = they turned up with a full engineering team to 'optimise' the car. They have two cars, one for track and one for road.
It's not exactly a surprise.
#16
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,350
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
not seen the comments Trout...can I trouble you for a link?
I know there has always been a bit of a dark feel around Ferrari with their alleged mafia links and obsessive road test control tendencies but the organisation seems to have jumped the shark over the last few years...a bit like a well loved child star on crack.
I know there has always been a bit of a dark feel around Ferrari with their alleged mafia links and obsessive road test control tendencies but the organisation seems to have jumped the shark over the last few years...a bit like a well loved child star on crack.
#18
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (41)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: in the woods...........555 Wagon Sqn
Posts: 13,350
Received 55 Likes
on
42 Posts
sorry phone trauma\fat finger attack...my guess is most of them are actually American.
I think that's the point, its expected that Ferrari will cheat just not to the extent they now do...or perhaps its just so obvious now it's got peoples' backs up
I think that's the point, its expected that Ferrari will cheat just not to the extent they now do...or perhaps its just so obvious now it's got peoples' backs up
#21
Scooby Regular
#22
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
I remember Clarkson hinting towards Ferrari's press car tactics when compared to other makers. However I wonder how far this goes. I recall the Holden/Vauxhall HSV VXR8s had a dedicated support team, as do some of the specials/supercars.
Also I wonder why BMW has "press preparation" on the car's order code - what does that tag actually entail? All the options? Better engine map? Stiffer shocks/springs? Stickier tyres? Who knows!
Also I wonder why BMW has "press preparation" on the car's order code - what does that tag actually entail? All the options? Better engine map? Stiffer shocks/springs? Stickier tyres? Who knows!
Last edited by ALi-B; 22 March 2011 at 07:25 PM.
#23
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And of course people are influenced by magazines and the press it would seem naive to deny it.
Look how long it took Skoda to reposition itself - irrespective how good it's cars were.
Being realistic there is no way I would have spent a fortune on an RS if every magazine on earth had said this was the worst/slowest/most rubbish Porsche ever. Did I buy it because they said it was the best, no, but it does ease the way.
Imagine if I now discover that Porsche press cars are secretly 100bhp more than the customer cars? I would be pretty pissed off as an owner.
#24
Scooby Regular
There is propaganda and blatant misinformation. It is big difference. It goes to the integrity of the brand.
And of course people are influenced by magazines and the press it would seem naive to deny it.
Look how long it took Skoda to reposition itself - irrespective how good it's cars were.
Being realistic there is no way I would have spent a fortune on an RS if every magazine on earth had said this was the worst/slowest/most rubbish Porsche ever. Did I buy it because they said it was the best, no, but it does ease the way.
Imagine if I now discover that Porsche press cars are secretly 100bhp more than the customer cars? I would be pretty pissed off as an owner.
And of course people are influenced by magazines and the press it would seem naive to deny it.
Look how long it took Skoda to reposition itself - irrespective how good it's cars were.
Being realistic there is no way I would have spent a fortune on an RS if every magazine on earth had said this was the worst/slowest/most rubbish Porsche ever. Did I buy it because they said it was the best, no, but it does ease the way.
Imagine if I now discover that Porsche press cars are secretly 100bhp more than the customer cars? I would be pretty pissed off as an owner.
Surely what matters is most people agree the Ferrari’s are great to drive – and interestingly the guy who is a member of the car club and recently posted all the cars he has driven on here said if he could keep one it would be the fezza
I am not defending Ferrari's tactics; they do seem a little OTT (I am sure all manufacturers do it to some degree)
It’s just that it only really matters to a few journo’s -- not the average fezza owner
it's not as if you order what you've read about in the mag - and a Fiat turns up on the flatbed 13mnths later
#25
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mars
Posts: 11,470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
agreed BUT, we are not talking about general opinions here, just the minutia of various timings (down to the level where a normal human could not tell the difference).
Surely what matters is most people agree the Ferrari’s are great to drive – and interestingly the guy who is a member of the car club and recently posted all the cars he has driven on here said if he could keep one it would be the fezza
I am not defending Ferrari's tactics; they do seem a little OTT (I am sure all manufacturers do it to some degree)
It’s just that it only really matters to a few journo’s -- not the average fezza owner
it's not as if you order what you've read about in the mag - and a Fiat turns up on the flatbed 13mnths later
Surely what matters is most people agree the Ferrari’s are great to drive – and interestingly the guy who is a member of the car club and recently posted all the cars he has driven on here said if he could keep one it would be the fezza
I am not defending Ferrari's tactics; they do seem a little OTT (I am sure all manufacturers do it to some degree)
It’s just that it only really matters to a few journo’s -- not the average fezza owner
it's not as if you order what you've read about in the mag - and a Fiat turns up on the flatbed 13mnths later
They are so badly made (even now) that they'd make a Fiat look like an 80s Merc for build quality.
#27
Scooby Regular
Trails -- maybe your right, but I can't help thinking this is just a "technical" argument between the press and Ferrari's press team, a bit of "handbags at dawn"
and is irrelevent to most people
#28
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 15,271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think it is the minutiae.
I think it was the 360 press car. Did 0-100 in 7.8s. Not other 360 got remotely close to that time. That is a hell of a difference in the driving experience. You would feel that amount of difference on the road.
If they did that to the engine - what about 'optimising' the suspension.
So I buy a car that I believe it quicker than a 911 Turbo and it turns out it is slower than the N/A GT3, at least in a straight line. If true, and it seems to be, that is deceit at best, fraud at worst.
I think it was the 360 press car. Did 0-100 in 7.8s. Not other 360 got remotely close to that time. That is a hell of a difference in the driving experience. You would feel that amount of difference on the road.
If they did that to the engine - what about 'optimising' the suspension.
So I buy a car that I believe it quicker than a 911 Turbo and it turns out it is slower than the N/A GT3, at least in a straight line. If true, and it seems to be, that is deceit at best, fraud at worst.
#29
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Mars
Posts: 11,470
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed and let's face it, when buying a supercar, you're buying it because it's meant to be "better" than pretty much anything else. So that sort of "lying" is pretty much out of order. And where does it stop? Will they BS about bhp and other stuff important to any supercar buyer?
#30
Scooby Regular
I don't think it is the minutiae.
I think it was the 360 press car. Did 0-100 in 7.8s. Not other 360 got remotely close to that time. That is a hell of a difference in the driving experience. You would feel that amount of difference on the road.
If they did that to the engine - what about 'optimising' the suspension.
So I buy a car that I believe it quicker than a 911 Turbo and it turns out it is slower than the N/A GT3, at least in a straight line. If true, and it seems to be, that is deceit at best, fraud at worst.
I think it was the 360 press car. Did 0-100 in 7.8s. Not other 360 got remotely close to that time. That is a hell of a difference in the driving experience. You would feel that amount of difference on the road.
If they did that to the engine - what about 'optimising' the suspension.
So I buy a car that I believe it quicker than a 911 Turbo and it turns out it is slower than the N/A GT3, at least in a straight line. If true, and it seems to be, that is deceit at best, fraud at worst.
I asked my neighbour - a Porsche fanatic, he has a GT2 and his wife a Boxter what is the better drive his 360 Scud (he has a Ferrari too) or the Porsche
he had no hesitation that the Ferrari was a better car/drive (not faster, better)
know I confess to knowing fvck all really, my point is Ferrari make great cars (as do Porsche), a Journo gets the hump because they are manipulative and v v competative about their product -- is that such a big deal really
Last edited by hodgy0_2; 22 March 2011 at 09:51 PM.