Standard...no.

With the Phoenix Power Gear Set yes. So baaaaaaaaa!

Stop blowing this out of proportion like you are with THIS thread!

Now get my back in your Cav :P

If you call a Cav a car :D

Welcome to 2 years ago...

Funny that you used the standard gear ratios of the MR2 on the java applet that you used as "proof".

This isn't blowing things out of all proportion, its just you can't take back what you have dished out. You were wrong about the MR2 doing 170 MPH then and you are wrong now.

yawn

Ditto.

Merciless, for what its worth, follow your heart :)

Yeah, potter around in a straight 6 engined car doing 30mph in 5th..... theres someone who knows how to drive a car! All because he can't be arsed to change gear! Whatever

That applet i pointed to WASN'T for the stock gearing...it was SPL gearing. The other links posted were for stock gearing...unfortunately you are wrong AGAIN CavBoy :D

Did somebody suggest alternative gearing could take the MR2 up to 170 Kms or Mph??!?!?!?!
Yeah right!

By your logic, a "standard" MR2 can reach 170 MPH because some applet with "SPL" gearing says it could.

Ok...

I guess you really would need to shift down 2 or 3 gears in an even more gutless Cavalier Turbo to get going.

You don't get that problem in an M3.

Cosworth427 -- what cars do you own, then?

Oh oh oh...this is coming from someone who believes that a Jspec Supra fuel pump can't support anything over 280BHP because it says so on some website in Australia.

Its ok for you to point out links, but not others.

Be consistent or stick your head, back up your bum :p

I was the only one who actually said that the J-spec fuel pump can support over 280 HP, idiot.

I KNOW you knew this, so let me ask you a simple question...

Why are you so desperate to get one over me by twisting the truth??

Yeah i know :) ... i just reverese psycholog'd you. Damn you get defensive :p

Am not.

All am trying to say to you is...why can you point to a website and expect everyone to believe it and as soon as someone else points to a website its rubbished? Are your links special?

You my friend are nothing but a backdoor specialist :)

I haven't linked to any website in this thread. And the links regarding the MKIV Supra were based on facts, rolling road graphs and actuall 1/4 mile times and trap speeds of J-Spec Supras.

I dismiss links to overpriced online-shops (tdi-plc.com) as proof. They sell aftermarket fuel pumps, soo of course they will show you a graph to "prove" a standard pump isn't up for the job.

As far as I know ;), the M3 still has an internal combustion engine, which means power is going to be broadly a function of revs - true for the portion of the rev range that has a flat torque curve - the M3 will ultimately go quicker if you drop down cogs, unless BMW have somehow changed the rules that govern petrol engines... So if ya wanna go fast, in an M3 or anything with a reciprocating piston ICE then you should be changing down gears.

Truth be known, the only vehicles in which you truly do not have to change down gears are electric vehicles, as the power is (to all practical purposes) constant and the torque is proportional to 1/revs.

As Cosworth427 appears to be mandating gear change requirement is the be all and end all of performance cars, the only logical conclusions is that we would make the best time if we all drive milk floats ;) :D

I see I have no takers for my challenge - shame - I would have enjoyed watching an M3 get thoroughly toasted by a Skyline on a sprint course :)

this

http://www.bmw-power.de/Fahrzeuge/E46_M3_Schreyer/2.jpg

or this

http://www.bomexaero.com/images1/tas...0/AUT_4858.jpg

be honest 1= m3 2= skyline

which would you choose, forget about running cost's, massaging seat's and sat nav, pick your beast ? 1 or 2 ?

my choice = v spec (always!)

...just my contribution to this ongoing thread :cool:

wise choice my freind :)

await all the toffs now saying the m3, cos they need a daily driver, im sorry but when you have a passion for cars, forget daily driver and it's the best all rounder etc, what a load of ****.

in this case we could have a totally non all rounder r34 355 360 and any other so called trouble car, and we could buy a £3k ford focus to do all the reliable things?, and then we could enjoy the unreliable beast ?. i think here we are drawing a line between car fans and car enthusiasts.

and im affraid there is a difference.

1 question for cosworth !, choice between a bmw m3 csl, and a ferrari 355 spider, which would you pick ?.

Stop recyling clap trap that has already been dealt with earlier in this thread. An overweight turbocharged 2 litre Cavalier, and an even more overweight 2.6 litre turbo charged Skyline needs more downshifting for acceptable acceleration. And no, we're not talking about 1/4 mile or racing from the lights, so quit whoring out what you can do on the 1/4, because it means jack sch1t on the road.

The superior and responsive powerband of a 3.2 litre natural aspirated car means I won't have to shift to low gears, and use sky high RPMs just to climb a hill at a reasonable pace or at full throttle.

This is why big car makers use big natural aspirated engines. You want enough power at all revs. Flexibility makes a better driver's car, and a daily usable car. Every competent car builder knows this, it's a shame a bunch of JDM veilside body kit licking fanboys don't.


"Truth be known?" What the hell is that? No one implied the M3 had a flat power band. I EXPLICTLY SAID the M3 has a more FLEXIBLE power band through a wide RPM range, and it is responsive in delivering that power too.

No, I said I prefer the M3 as a daily driver, and as a driver's car. The flexible powerband, quality and handling all plays a part in my preference.

What challenge? To prove who's dick is the biggest on the 1/4 mile track?

What does the quicker car on a drag strip prove as a better road car?

Idiot.

F355 anyday. And no, it's not gutless like a Skyline is.

Return of MYCROFT.

About as much as driving at 30MPH in top ;)

Cem

Oh dear toys out of the pram and all over the floor! Seems like the sense of humour bypass operation was a glorious success then ;) :D I would explain to you what smilies mean but it is very clear you are set in your ways and not likely to learn!

Oh joy, meaningless subjective words like "acceptable acceleration" that you conveniently don't have to quantify. On the road I plan EVERY acceleration event in advance (like any other IAM driver) so I ALWAYS have plenty of time to downshift - because I am an enthusiast, that is fine. When I get bored of driving, I'll stop downshifting I guess ;) should I get an M3 then? :)

However, I will (try) to educate you on one thing: a sprint meeting is NOT a 1/4 mile drag race, they are two completely different things. It is a rounded test of a cars performance in a range of different situations coupled to the skill of the driver.

Oh dear, I wasn't talking about a drag strip... but this line was followed by:

Touché! We did go on a long mental trip to find this one. Shame it was typed immediately after a sentence you wrote that showed significant ignorance :)

Just checked and both of last years events were won by turbocharged cars! One was a Dax Rush Hayabusa Turbo, be interesting to see how that compares to a N/A radical or XTR2 - I think it would give both of them a good run for their money in pretty much any situation... Even pipped an N/A Jedi :eek:

Ignoring this Cosworth427, if anyone with an M3 wants a go, just let me know. Trouble is they wind up in the same class as TVRs, we get a lot of them, and I don't think that will be a close competition either :)

Cosworth427 -

I have to ask, purely out of interest on the two sides of this argument, what experience you actually have with cars?

I mean you obviously know what you're talking about in technical terms, and you repeatedly refer to experience of tuning and the like, but I just want to get an idea of what you've achieved, or worked with / on to base these arguments upon.

If you look at Simon DB, he's an open book - we can see what he's done, what experience he has etc. But you're more of a mystery... You can PM me if you don't want everyone to know.

So a Cerbera would get hammered by a Skyline too?

No, I never said that! What I said was that I would expect the TVRs to be significantly faster than the M3. I also would expect this particular Skyline to be significantly faster than a standard M3. I did not make a comparison between the TVR and the Skyline. However, while you ask :)

At the last sprint meeting, the TVRs and Skyline were fairly close. Remember this Skyline is pushing out more power than standard, but the TVRs were in stock form, so the comparison isn't quite "apples to apples" - but according to Cosworth427 it is only fair to give these turboheads a power advantage ;) :D. In wet conditions, the Skyline was quicker by a substantial margin (better able to use the power through the four wheel drive), in the dry it was a little quicker.

An interesting observation is that at the sprint meetings we get a range of drivers - from novices to very skilled and experienced racing drivers - and the TVRs end up with a very big spread of times, because whilst they are fast you need to be a good driver to get the best out of them. Hot hatches, jap rally weapons etc. tend to have a smaller spread as they are "easier" to drive quickly.