I see what you're getting at but I'm sure they only released the one video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzFqXbfv_yg

Out of the many, many cameras probably covering that area thats the best that they can release ?

I doubt it

Do you know the max controllable IAS at low level for an aircraft like that? Especially by an inexperienced pilot.

Les

what you really want to see is a big cartoon plane like shape in the wall of the building

the real world of physics does not work in the same way as in the cartoons

when an essentially cigar shaped object hits one of the most strongly protected building in the world at 500mph it make exactly the kind of hole it made


http://www.debunking911.com/

http://www.popularmechanics.com/tech...myths-pentagon

It crashed through Les not landed on a runway in controlled way with flaps and gear deployed. Still if it is only doing 200 mph then how long does it spend 'in shot' per frame say for that camera in question. Answer is milliseconds - not surprising the camera failed to grab a clean pic.

Perhaps, and if so, on both sides of the debate. It's either ignorant or deeply dishonest and ignoble. Having said that, the obscure etymology doesn't help. As an example, on my Islamism thread, my polemics against Islamists were spun by some users as me pursuing the extirpation of Muslims. Deliberate or mis-informed? From there NSR had the Judaism thread, as if Judaism is to Jew as Islamism is to Muslim. Well, that isn't how it is (as I've pointed out above) despite the words appearing to suggest that that is the case.

I have a philosophical quarrel with Islam (as I do with denominations of Chritianity, Jewish sects, Communism, Anarchism and so forth) but, I have a deeply held conviction that Islamism poses a significant threat, both physically and as an idea.

I've discussed this at length with this gentleman:

http://www.welshconservatives.com/person/altaf-hussain

If anyone wishes to meet an honourable, progressive, clear-thinking, rational man, who also happens to have been born a Muslim, they'd do well to make contact.

Now, would James Taylor vote for a Muslim? :eek:

Yeah, but you would say that, wouldn't you? :cuckoo:

No, there is no 'evidence' at all. It's misunderstanding or misinterrprtation (and in some cases just sheer invention) of the facts.

Oh come on, Loose Change is embarrassingly bad. It's entertaining, I give you that.

The camera that was pointed at the impact point did record the impact, but it wasn't a continuous feed, so the frame you are looking for do not exist. The damage to the building and the wreckage inside are consistent with being hit by the aircraft that was reported to have done so. Do you really think that in that short period of time that some teams were able to get in past the firecrews and plant pieces of wreckage?

As for OBL, we're getting into paranoia here now. The most telling thing is that Al Qaeda have not come forward to say he isn't dead. OK, you're probably going to say "well they wouldn't, because if the US thinks he is dead, then they won't look for him".

Past records show that they have acknowledged every death of high ranking members. Why would they suddenly change now?


These theories have been knocked on the head! If you wish to dismiss those proofs, that is up to you. The people who come up with these zany theories are journalists, radio presenters, odd balls, UFO believers etc. The people who knock them down are engineers, physicists, firemen, policemen. People who understand what has gone on. People who are qualified to comment on them.

Ask yourself, who is likely to know more about the way in which a large building will behave when struck by an airliner full of fuel, a journo who makes a living out of sensationalist stories, or a structural engineer?

You often hear the quote "nothing will convince me that [put event here] happened like the authorities say it did". That tells you all you need to know about conspiracy theorists!

Geezer

ok what have i missed?

I know this, but it couldnt have been the only camera pointing at the area in question at the time.

Out of all the cameras theres surely at least one that got a better shot than that ?

And btw, I'm not saying I believe it was an inside job, it just seems to me that they can disprove most things quite easily but seem to choose not to ? I dont understand why ?

And the one thing that puzzles me, the highjackers passport survived yet the blackbox didnt ?

An amoeba, knocking some silly-billy theories on people's heads. Amoeba said on Radio 4 this morning that he should have knocked a Tefal non-stick frying pan on people's heads instead, but that pan's handle broke. I think Mus needs to send a jin to communicate with Bin Lid's jin, in order to find out what really did happen to Bin. Then, everyone's mind can be put to rest.

there are plenty of eye witness accounts of people who saw the plane hitting the pentagon too


maybe you are asking why all the theories then, why not ask the people who saw the plane hit the building including this man


Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"

but then maybe they are all plants, and maybe Elvis works in a chip shop too

There were many things from the plane that survived the crash.

http://www.911myths.com/html/passport_recovered.html

Lol! :lol1:

Dig out the quote, Swati. Go on.

tony it was covered by a hotel cctv of which members of staff watched in horror , the film was removed by fbi and everyone made to sign a silence document , as for the pentagon , well the facts .
the section that was hit was bomb proofed weeks before coincidence
16ft round hole . ?????
a 737 is about 35ft in diameter with a wingspan of around 147ft with 2 engines about 12ft in diameter about 40-50ft apart traveling at about 400mph i think it would make a bit bigger hole than 16ft , each engine weighs about 6tonnes made of titainum and steel and not a single part found , look up the melting point of titaiunum it aint 1500degrees ,there should of been 3holes not one . oh and no wreckage on lawn bigger than people could carry away , and the lawn was recovered by lorries and workers within hours , watch the brief video the fbi released you cant see a plane , numerous people reported smelling cordite , they where all told to shut up and where no doubt made to sign disclaimers as well

How do you know that is true about the FBI? Because a truther video on youtube says so? Could it be that the US government does no want picture of the Pentagon made public just because it is a highly sensitive building from security POV and not because there is a vast conspiracy?!

I'm not aware of the exact nature of the damage to the Pentagon or the way in which the plane hit it (angle, speed, etc), but I don't think you assumptions about what the hole should have looked like are valid given the many ways in which the plane could have struck the building.

So if it was fake what happened to all the people who died on that flight and the airframe which was allegedly destroyed?

yes ive seen it(loose change) steph and when given the chance not one person on her can or has attempted to explain how 6of the hijackers are still alive and breathing , proven fact not fiction or theory,thier parents and relatives have seen and spoken to them .and the 16ft hole not 1hole 35-40ft with 2more holes 12ft ish about 40-50ft apart , i think if a 6tonne metal object hit and building at 500mph as tony states it would make a hole dont you . ime still waiting for a explanation on the pentagon from tony and the others

Fair enough.

https://www.scoobynet.com/883464-i-w...t-night-3.html

Now, all we need is to ask Mus for his help. :thumb:


For whosoever it may concern as a thread derailment:

This thread definitely remains on topic with the search for truth about Osama Bin Laden's moves via the help of Mus's jin. That's if Mus can spare him.

:D

Quick edit!

But also plenty of people saying it wasnt a plane ?

Sorry, doesnt really explain anything

We both posted at the same time, Banny, that's all; don't read too much in to it.

For anyone interested, I appended the link with: "the mind of a conspiracy theorist". :)

Incorrect.

There was one masquerading as a hostage. And the real hostages were animatedly letting the SAS know he was a terrorist. One of the SAS marched him to a lawn for some 'summary justice'... But another trooper stopped him before he could do so. ;)

Sorry, back on topic...

Witnesses to major events like this always provide inconsistent versions of events. It's because so much happens and it is hard to take in.

Proven fact according to an obscure you tube video but the mainstream press has not investigated this? Is suppose the CIA got to all the thousands of investigative journalists we have in the western world?

I admit it is possible some of the 'hijackers' are alive. I doubt the authorities etc will ever get a full handle on the exact nature of the events on 9/11 and will have made investigative errors made...in fact it's surely a given all the 'facts' are not 100% right; the event was just so big.

:lol: fook me how do you confuse a plane with something else

Mus' logic goes like this:

Muslim can engage in violent jihad when oppressed.
Therefore any Muslim engaging in violent jihad must be oppressed.

I dunno but have you ever witnessed a jet fly into building from the POV of being near the impact?

Yes I have :thumb:

You confuse it with a Hard Nose Missile.. Performing a manouver that US Air force pilots continually failed to replicate on multiple attempts on simulators.

Call me paranoid, what ever, I just don't believe everything that the media tells me and naturally question things. Like "Where are the wings..."

Where was that then? And the WTC is not comparable since the witnesses were on the ground and have a really good view.