HI,

A big thanks to Simon (JollyGreenMonster) for his help via PM:thumb: about litchfield turbo.

Carlo

no problem, hope you are happy with it :)

Simon might have a little suprise for you on the 27th, will update you via text once I have more info :)

Banny

No problem mate! :)

I totally agree with you on the reliability front.

The remit of any work on my car has always been to: a)ensure the car remains reliable as possible for the purpose of, b)that it can take the punishment on track. By on large the car has been very reliable, albeit having the HG's let go after 9k miles, but under the conditions that the engine had been subjected to, it was hardly surprising in reality.

It was not too long ago that people thought I wouldn't even make 500bhp on a standard fit turbo and VPower and that the engine would grenade itself within a very short period of time...... how things have changed and been proven wrong. :D

As you suggest, there is no point in pushing for maximum output and this is certainly something that moving to higher compression has helped me to achieve.

I think the quote made above is a testiment to what can be achieved, whilst still providing great spool and driveability, but without running crazy boost and still retaining widely available VPower. Perfect map for everyday driving and to be honest, plenty quick enough for the track. Perhaps having your cake and eating it?

As you say, Engine Tuner has built plenty of similar configurations and I am sure they will do you a good service.

Above all enjoy the car and engine. :)

Never a truer word,Boss:thumb:

To all that have had this upgrade my vf37 burnt out the weekend any one who has got there old turbo lying around and would like to help me out give me a shout cheers..

Mark,
Wasn't aware that the MK1 Type25's had VF37's installed. Thought they were a hybrid unit?!

Mark, The original T25 had a hybrid garrett core as shaun says. One of the reasons we developed the new housings was because of the problems we had with the standard Subaru exhaust TS housings warping etc when running high egts.

If you want to upgrade or revert back to a VF36/7 just let me know :)

Regards

Iain

I best allocate a bit more time then.. lol

You have a pm from yesterday !

:iamwithst :thumb::thumb:


Tony

Just curious if you could provide a little clarification about the spool characteristics of this setup. I'm in the US so there's been some differences in common tuning methods. You say "1.6 bar 3200rpm (RR plot spools 800 rpm later, in 4th rather than 6th of course)."
I was just confused what this means. I don't know what RR plots are. What gear did you get 3200 rpms for 1.6 bar? Was that in 6th gear and you're saying in 4th it's 4000rpm? Just trying to compare to some of the other setups I've seen without twinscroll. I tried emailing Litchfield but I never recieved a reply back. I don't know if thats because they're busy or maybe they have multiple emails or what. I was basically trying to get some graphs of the 450 and 480 models on a 2.5 liter motor to see the spool characteristics. Also I read your journal and stuff and saw you have mahle pistons, spec c heads, and some porting so those would affect spool as well. What is your compression ratio?

I'll do my best :)

RR is just shorthand for "Rolling Road", or a "dyno run".

If you look at the plots I posted, they are done on the rolling road in 4th gear, and by looking at the boost plot you can see where 1 bar and 1.6 bar occur.

On the road, with a greater load on the engine in 6th gear, the spool point is markedly lower. This is normal as I understand it.

As far as I know mine is the only LM480-70 on a 2.5 that's been done so far. I don't think even Iain Litchfield tried one so I am the guinea pig (although I stand to be corrected on that). I know there's another about to be completed so there will then be one to compare mine to.

Some results from an LM450 were posted earlier in this thread I think, but that was possibly on a 2.0l not a 2.5l

Yes, agreed, all those things will affect spool. My understanding of the porting of the heads is that when they were sent off to the head specialist to have the chambers reworked to suit the 2.5 bore, he apparantly couldn't resist tidying up the inlet and exhaust ports while he was at it :lol1:.

Somewhere around 8.5 I believe.

HTH :D

kakarot try emailing again as I could not find any record of your email. Might be deleted from our spam filter.
More than happy to run through any questions you have :)
Iain

Thanks a lot Tim you were very helpful :) I think I may have had some unrealistic goals about the turbo I want lol. I guess we'll see when Iain emails me back, hopefully I'm pleasantly surprised.

Iain
I emailed you from a different email this time. Also I Forgot to ask you how you think boost threshold would compare on your test car vs my stock USDM 2005 sti engine.
Thanks in advance. :)

More questions, sorry. Tim I don't know if this question applies more to you or Iain but how much "chopping about" did you end up having to do to install your turbo? Also you have in your journal a "parallel fuel rail mod" What exactly is this? I know I can purchase different fuel rails from various manufacturers, but is this what you did? Or is this something I can make/do myself? For clarification I work on cars some as in I've helped pull and reinstall engines and peripheals but I'm not really handy with machining stuff unless it's simple like drilling a hole.
Iain I know the turbo that Tim got has the larger housing compared to the LM450L60. Would the smaller housing still necessitate grinding the bell housing? Or anything else for that matter? Or would this be strictly install without machining.

I left the chopping about to the specialist who installed the turbo/FMIC etc. I know they had to grind away some of the bell housing, and it took them a little while to get it to fit properly, but more than that I don't know I'm afraid.

I know someone who had an LM420 fitted, and I'm pretty sure that car need some grinding too.

Parallel fuel rail. The standard setup feeds fuel via sequential pipes feeding one injector after the other. The parallel mod feeds fuel to all 4 independently. You can buy kits or I think you can make it up yourself with appropriate fuel line - trying searching on here as I imagine there will be posts from folk who've done it: I left this to my installer too :)

Thanks for helping out Tim :)

Iain
Is this the case for all of them then?

kakarot, I have replied to your email :)

All the housings have the same external dimensions so will need a bit of grinding work to get a perfect fit. It can also vary slightly from car to car. It should be no problem for most installing garages.

Ian i got a bolt oil feed from t.d today cheers ...

My car seems slow nowadays :rolleyes: it not just me ;) On acceleration it doesn't make my wife throw up as much now :p

I need to get some more horses or she will never keep her weight down :D

Tony

Hi guys,

I have few question to ask about this litchfield LM450-S60 turbo as I'm very interest about it. And I'm currently owned a 2.0ltr Version 9 STI.
And the question are:

1) Can 450bhp achievable by using back standard STI TMIC ?(together with other supporting mods)

2) How many bar needed to produce 450bhp ? 1.5 ? or 1.6?...

Currently I have installed de-cat downpipe, cat-back exhaust, fuel pump, fpr, and also aps CAI...so my next step is bigger injector, turbo inlet hose(APS), and a tune to play with the turbo, am I correct ? I will retain my standard TMIC, if possible.

400bhp is commonly accepted to be the limit of you TMIC, 420 is the highest I've heard of...so for 450 I really think you need to go FMIC.

If you fit an air charge temperature guage, cost £82.50 inclusive of postage, Paypal to harveysmith1@btopenworld.com you can monitor your air charge temperatures and decide for yourself if your top mount is up to it. Fitting a front mount will gain you power at your level just for a start because the charge temperatures will be that much lower. When I went from STi top mount to Hybrid front mount I went from 392 bhp to 401 bhp without a remap and 410 bhp after remap.

So probably get a bigger tmic or fmic is the best choice in order to reach the power. But, how many boost i need to produce roughly 450hp? Since standard internal I believe 1.5 bar is the safety zone. Btw, how much is the final price for the turbo(include VAT and shipping fee), cause I'm located Malaysia. And is there any additional part I need to buy or the price are include all neccesary part like oil line or etc.

Take a look at the Litchfield website as all the prices and options are on there...it does not come as standard with all the oil pipes etc :(

IMO it is also down to intended use, turbo spec and boost.

Whilst I agree that from certain levels a FMIC will be better, you only have to look at the results that people like AndyF have achieved with a STi TMIC.

Also be careful (at certain levels) comparing the output benefit from a TMIC vs FMIC on a dyno. Dyno's will normally favour a front mount, whereas on the road the airflow will be a lot more for the TMIC boys.

As Harvey has suggested..... you really need to test / measure. :)

i think you would need a fmic and a full 3inch straight thru zorst to achieve the 450....im sure another member achieved that with supporting mods...

mine made approx 415 on the road and thats with tmic and a zorst which tapers to 2.5....nice bit of kit though...:D

Shaun :
Unless you are restricting your car to quarter mile running looking at what AFP have achieved is not relevant. Andy was unable to go for top speed runs with his top mount because it was not adequate for more than a 10 second burst. For road use, beyond a certain power level the FMIC is the obvious choice and if the temperatures are monitored before and after fitment of an efficient front mount any doubts as to the advantages of the front mount will soon be dispelled.

I normally agree with what you say but this bit is bollocks.

If the rolling road set up is done properly, as it is done at TEG Sport for instance, it makes absolutely no difference if you have a TMIC or FMIC. In the case of the TMIC there is a dedicated feed to the bonnet scoop which is sealed so the TMIC gets adequate air flow plus the normal frontal blast from the huge, fixed main fan.

The important thing to realise regardless of top mount or front mount is that for every 4 deg C change in temperature there is approximately a 1% power change. I havn't come up with these figures, somebody far cleverer than me has but over several years on forced induction petrol engines and not just Subaru that formula has proven accurate. So if you are running 392 bhp on a TMIC and then run 23 C on an FMIC expect a 5% power gain. 5% x 392 = 411.6 bhp. Actual = 410. The engine is not interested whether the air comes from a top mount or front mount, it wants the coolest air it can reasonably get and beyond a certain level the front mount is a no brainer.

Harvey,
I was referring to AndyF's Spec C which is used as a daily driver (so I believe) and he ran at last years ScoobySprint Championship. Depending on Turbo in at the time, he runs anywhere from 400 - 480bhp iirc. :)

Me talk "bollocks" :eek: :D .... I understand what you are saying (PowerStation set-up is the same as regards to appropriate airfeeds), but I would rather see a power comparison with just the TMIC vs FMIC swap from something like "Road Dyno", as I feel the environment can be artificial to an extent in a dyno cell (regarding heat buildup). :)

I have not done any of these tests back to back myself and as you know, I don't believe much in life until I have tested it. :D

It would be good to complete road dyno runs for 350, 400 & 420 with and without TMIC/FMIC to see the differences.