And grow a set of bollocks :D

I mean, lets face, not good look, like black letter box, maybe they like widescreen ?


The mood seems to be changing, even the BBC seem to be doing a WTF, come on Muslims, meet us half way here, we want to see your faces when we speak to you, thats not so bad is it ?

J4cko, loving dem crazy Muslims whatever they may be offended about this week !

Jilbabs are a good idea . i carry one with me when im up town on a saturday night .You see a girl gets offended when you ask her to put a bag on her head .but tell her you have a jilbab fetish :norty:

lol, well im not.

Whether you agree or disagree with what I wrote, to be honest it was appalling, whether I agree with it or not.

Some things are better left unsaid sometimes.

It certainly hasn't done JS any favours has it.

R7

From: http://www.ukpa.gov.uk/general_photos_standards.asp

># your full head, without any head covering, unless it is worn for
>religious beliefs or medical reasons; and
># nothing covering your face. Please make sure nothing covers
>the outline of your eyes, nose or mouth.

So headscarves are OK for passports but not veils - come on! Not even the loonies in power would try to argue that a veil covered passport photo is adequate id!!!

Not sure about banks but I know I've been asked to remove a crash helmet before. And I had a wad of cash to pay IN!!!! If the veil/muslim thing had been current I would have had a barny with them.

And what about that shooping centre that banned hoodies from being up? Did they also ban veils??? I think not .....

Dave

Which makes the point quite neatly that if there was going to be any trouble it was likely to be some little townie **** in his hoodie rather than Mrs Mohammed getting the shopping..... dl

Hello all...

As some of you guys know I am a Muslim and consider myself to be a reasonable practising one. I have a beard and wear those thobes (long shirt) thingys not to be confused with the Salwar Kameez that a lot of Pakistani Muslims wear. I am a dentist by trade and interact with all kinds of people.

My wife does wear a Jilbaab (long dress), Hijaab (headscarf) and Niqaab (face veil). She does so out of totally he own choice she is by trade an ESOL teacher and is currently doing a Open University Degree in 'social something or other'. She believes as a Muslim that is what is required from Islaam.

There are two opinions 1. To cover the face 2.To not cover the face.
She chooses to cover the face. I will be quite honest clearly things got bad for Muslims after 9/11 and 7/7 people who know of me on this website know that my opinions on Bin Laadin (the filthy stinking dog) and anyone who believes his evil, sick, devil like beliefs is clearly a legitimate target as far as I am concerned. Harming non Muslim or Muslim is totally alien and forbidden in Islaam.

Regards Jack Straw is he after political points or votes who knows...if he speaks to women who are happy to take the veil off when he requests then fair enough but my wife would not as she believes that she should not in front of the opposite sex who is not related to her without being veiled. When we are out and people interact with us they seem to have no problem with talking with my wife. I admit the veil is a physical screen and people may find it uncomfortable to speak to someone wearing one especially with the current climate. As for banning it then clearly I do not agree and why the sudden change now women have worn face veils in the UK for years.

As for statements like "If they do not like it then get out" well this is my country my father is from Pakistan but I was born here and I have lived here all my life I have never been to Pakistan and I feel part of this country... am I not part of the 'make up' of this country?

If this is going to be the case about banning the veil then to be just other religious signs should follow...skull cap, wigs, the clothing of nuns, turbans of the sikh etc. would that be reasonable?

My wifes passport is of her without face veil as it is a requirement and also she needed the same photo for her driving licence and to open her bank account.

Any reasonable questions I will be happy to answer.

Aaquil

The world would be a better place if Aaquils's views on those who commit mass murder in the name of Islam were shared by all Muslims. Sadly they are clearly not widely held views in fact his post is the first time I have read or heard any Muslim strongly criticise Islamic terrorism.

Well done Jack Straw for telling it how it is, what a brave thing to do. I see that spineless Blair is already distancing himself from Jack.

Me too. For every "aaquil" there is 10 "moses's" :(

Thanks for that Mr Scoob...all my Muslim friends hold that opinion and all my non Muslim friends know my opinion very well as one of the Islamic scholars I follow stated "...these people are the brothers of the devils". The problem is that the loud mouthed, rude, obnoxious, extremist, ignoramuses so called Muslims get the media attention rather than the people who try to speak reasonably. Then you get the ones who act like they are against Bin Laadin and the 'scum like' but they add on the end "...but what about the UK foreign policy?"

Excuse me! foreign policy or no foreign policy you are either against bombing of innocent civilians or not but they hide things far more sinister like the 'so called' 'Muslim Council of Great Britian' sorry but they do not represent me. Secretly film them and you will see what they really believe.

Thanks Rage and very sadly you are correct yes I agree with you all regards those types send them back to where they come from you hate the 'Infidels' but their council houses, NHS and benefit system is okay isn't it?!!!!!

Hey you Muslims concentrate on improving yourselves its Ramadhan instead of bloody complaining about everything someone breaks wind in the wrong direction and you want to do a protest march! We look bad enough as it is already have you forgotten that our so called bretheren decided to rip a load of tube trains apart and did the same to hundreds of families not so long ago!

Of course he is. The irony is that they were both jointly and equally responsible for the situation we now have in the UK regarding Muslim radicalisation.

Between them, thse are the people who have done more to f*ck up race relations in this country (and the wider world) than the someone like the BNP could ever achieve.

How do you know that? Have you conducted a poll?


I don't believe that - I think (hope) it's the other way around. The trouble is only one of the ten 'aaquil's' bother to let their feelings known, whereas the minority loudmouths like 'moses' are always on the case.

Unclebuck you are right more of us have to get into the media and spread the truth to destroy the twisted liars...some of the people who have this allegiance to these people do so out of being brainwashed and wholly ignorant. However we all have free will we don't have to let people brainwash us do we?

"Motorcycle helmets must be removed before entering this post office".

"The wearing of hoods is prohibited in this area"

:)

Hoodies have been banned from some public places as people find them intimidating.
Maybe they should try the same approach here.

Aaquil - it is very refreshing to read your posts. I sincerely hope that your views represent those of the vast majority of muslims.

However, I do object to the viel. Firstly it is very disconcerting to talk to someone whereby you can't see any of their facial expressions. Secondly the reason you give for it implies that men cannot control themselves fully - in a civilised society women don't need there beauty hidden away on the off chance a man is going to find them attractive... I personally think the viel is a very visible symbol of how radical Islam can be as a religion and of the gulf that exists between the views it encourages and the views of non-Islamics. I don't understand why a god would care whether your face is covered or not and why doing this holds any real value at all other than to alienate the person from non-followers of that religion. You must appreciate that the general expectations of this country, of which you are part of the make-up, is not to have women's faces hidden away.

Hi Aaquil, I have a question for you. In Islam, is Allah considered to be the creator of all things in the same way that Christians believe that God is the creator of all things?

If so, what is the explanation for Allah requiring women to cover the face that he gave to them?

Cheers

I reckon its because they all have beards.:lol1:

Great question BTW.

R7:)

Fantastic to see a reasonable discussion (morons apart), I have been increasingly despairing for this forum in the "anti-everything not me" views displayed here. Hope it can continue.

Obviously my views have gone completely unnoticed.:rolleyes:

Maz, apologies I had you in the sensible side of the divide already.:)

Thank fook for that!:thumb:

I admire Jack Straw to be able to speak it out so bravely. I think the educated muslim women will be pleased with his views.Veil is no good with H&S, security, women's dignity, freedom, all sorts of points of view.
It needs to go. I don't think Jack has a problem with what people wear. Covering face is not needed, in favour of humanity and communication.
One day, he will ask Sikhs to take their turbans off. If He has valid reasons for it, it should be taken on board.
While in Rome, do as Romans want (unless it is totally unreasonable)
Simple.
:)

I agree with most of your rational post but I disagree with this. The whole discussion started about the veil and it's this specific item of clothing that is the problem. AFAIK no other religion practices face covering as standard fare.

It is indeed a barrier to communication and something that is certainly not in keeping with what in modern times is a fairly secularist society which we now live in.

Rightly or wrongly, Muslim females who dress in veils and hijabs are seen as separatist which again IMHO goes against the grain of what this country is.

I think the point some say about 'go home' etc is a rather blunt way of saying if you do not agree with the freedoms and traditions of this country then go to a country where this is the norm rather than the exception.

AFAIK nowhere in the Qur'an does it say that a females face must be covered? Indeed, does it not say that the whole of the body must be covered except the face and hands?

If this is the case, then veils etc can be seen as some sort of extreemism or a pandering to Sharia Law, something else that would sit rather uneasy with the majority of the population.

^Well said:thumb:

I think you are right (for the sake of race relations) - Level headed people like you need to become the voice of the muslim community and convince the general public that many muslims are not extreamists but people with morals who intergrate themselves into society like you do. Dont let the extreamists get their say. You good guys need to start shouting louder!
Steve

I am muslim and i think jack straw is bang out of order,since 9/11 islam and muslims have been a political scapegoat for the uk and us.

Its sad to see that so many of you agree with jack straw,all i can say is please think out of the box and please have respect for our faith :).

I don't respect fairy tales. I have the same view on any religion BTW.

Faith will always be respected, juggers. Veil matter is about the reasonability of certain trends related to the faith. Surely, some flexibility can be offered in favour of what living and breathing fellow human beings want, rather than a faith to be followed blindly.
IMO.:)

Can I ask an honest question, and if you have read this post you will believe me.
What specifically is "out of order" and what would you like us to think "think out of the box" about?