Flippety, flip, flip! How can you do that Alan?!

;)

Or from the US. :p
eBay Motors: Brand New Subaru STi Short Block (item 4574550680 end time Dec-03-06 12:59:16 PST)

guys can you stop this thread!.....you are putting bad idea's in my head :)

Who said a 2.5 is a bad idea?

:D

it is when your looking at powerstation's cosworth block!:norty:

Not a bad idea as such, just a rather expensive one. :D

I wish someone could source the 2.5 semi CDB bare, nothing in it.
Simply then buy uprated crank/rods/pistons as you can for the rebuild with the bhp level you want.
You can then get there in affordable instalments.

As to the ebay/USA source, remember the duties you will attact when shipped.

Great thread. :D
Graham

You can get a bare block Graham. That's the route i went.

same here too...but that was just kind of opportune

Yep, Alan is correct, we can get EJ257 bare blocks individually now.

Many people fall foul of HMRC charges when buying from abroad direct, the bill from import Tax and VAT arriving after the parts have been received has been likened to waiting for an NIP for speeding to turn up, especially with bigger stuff. :o

When my Crawford 2.5 short engine came over HMRC tried to charge me 4% import duties as they described the product as an engine, when I told them it was PART of an engine the duty was lowered to 2.5%. I cant recall the exact saving but it was over £100.

Morning :)

there is no rush as need a bit of time to save up the dosh to do it. I do like the idea of getting the 2.5 ffrom outside the uk and what you save put in some better pistons etc then rebuild my at lesiure and a spare engine to put back in to sell with car when it goes or just to sell on to get a bit of money back.

Just weighing up the prices at the moment of the rebuild option on mine over a shiny new 2.5, I am also getting some prices from japan as well for the 2.5 and the sti 9 rebuild components. I'd rather wait a bit till I have found the extra to do a proper job rather then rush it just to get it back on road and then 6 montsha later wish I had done those bits, as mentioned earlier, regret the things yoy havent done

Yep liking that idea too

With that in mind, set yourself a goal of what you want to aim for, price it, then see if it's doable in reality, rather than just a wish list.

Curiosity is one of the biggest problems in my opinion. I wonder what it would be like with 400bhp?... I wonder what it would be like with 450bhp?.. and so on.
If you can afford to do it, then great, but you get to a point where you've committed so much money into the "project", that you reach a sort of "point of no return", coupled with a car so powerful, you've created a monster which is greater than the driver you are (or most of us at least) and becomes less useable on road, the higher the horsepower figure goes.
In hindsight with my experience to date, doing it again, i'd stop at 350bhp as an overall value for money, enjoyable, reliable package, but you can't convince anyone else to do so, since natural human curiosity will make them want to experience it for themselves.

Great response :thumb:

And hindsight is a beautiful thing :D

I guess as previously mentioned this thread will be caught in a perpetual loop and we are back at the first post again ...

Quote me "...with power of hindsight anything you would do different"

so lets have a vote for if people were doing it all again with a cap of 350, this time round would you use a 2.0 or 2.5 to achieve this.

yep good advice again and the way forward. So, after sleeping on this for the night and re-reading all the comments here and some of the other rebuild threads this is what I have decided as an initial aim then I am prepared to re-evaluate if need be. So... Power goal and aspiration not over 350 (as per my initial aim) price that power and see if it can be done for my 2k approxand what options are available within that 2k approx, No point budgeting for power mods that will support 400 plus etc if never going to exceed 350, well not on this wagon anway.

Maybe a big power 2.5 wagon can be the next project If I can find a shed or worksop ready for next winter, maybe able to get myself setup to build one DIY :D :D

Its like the starbucks syndrome, it used to be easy buying a coffee, now you have at least twenty to choose from :confused: :confused:

I just normally end up saying, sod it, just give me a Tea :lol1:

I think i'd always choose to uprate the block, when it's out, as it would bother me too much when it's all fitted minus the "good stuff", but good stuff needn't cost the earth.

Ok i didn't do my rods, but they weren't deemed needed for my turbo/rev limit and i don't reckon i will ever go above 450hp.

If i was to build another scoob, i'm not saying i would do it with a 2.5 litre, but i'd PREFER to have the 2.5.

I understand what you are saying Alan, but apart from in the wet (when I tend to turn the boost down), I really enjoy the way my car feels (+-500/500). When I first started to push the car, I did find myself running at 1.4 bar as the car was nice without the brutallity running at 1.8 produced. Now that I've spent more time with the car at 1.8 it just feels nicer everyday (must be the engine loosening up). Do completely agree on the cost front... I've spent way to much money.:Whatever_

*smiles* - go for the 2.5... you wont regret it (except from a bank balance perspective). I initially ran the car with a TD05 (wastegate wired open) and the 2.5 felt pretty quick without a turbo (though amusingly it was still making 0.5 bar boost:norty: ... must be all that extra exhaust gas from the 2.5). It's just a really, really nice drive.

I think I may be swayed if finances allow :norty: :norty:

what sort of price is a 2.5 going to cost for the shortblock, what extra bits do i need to factor in over say a 2.0 rebuild, I understand some of the ancillaries I can transfer over and having sti5 heads must be a good starter over say a uk head.

is there any difference between say a 2.5 from the us or a JDM one, are there different 2.5's or are they all the same :wonder:

Change of plans so yes, I'll be there tommorrow now :D :D

If the goal is 350 x 350 then you can find this 'easy' with a 2 litre Sti.
If you are handy with the spanners and plasters for the fingers, you can get this level without taking the engine out or even the gearbox if the clutch is OK.
You would need to start with the Sti V3 or younger engine, and that will cost the same as the new 2.5 short engine (but the V3 would be complete and ready to go).

My Sti v3 is a real 380 x 360 and is an absolute delight on the road, very gutsy and easy to drive, especially in the wet where you can make some serious speed over many far more 'powerful' cars.

To the 2.5 bare block responses (thanks) how much for:

Bare block.
Sti crank and motorsport shells
Good rods (arrow?)
Forged 'drop-in' pistons
Gasket set to suit.

Personally (and I'm not rolling in $$$$) if you go through all this work it is best to build a solid short block if the dream is over 350 x 350.

My goal is 400 x 400 + with the need for quick spool, max boost low down and torque over power, and it must rev to 7500 min. where it will spend a lot of time hillclimbing.

John Stevenson might agree that 400 x400 ish is a great level, 500+ could be just too much for the chassis. I doubt my driver skills would cope with 500+ on a hillclimb, it even challenges John, so 400 x 400+ would be my ticket.

Hope this thread keeps going some yet. :D
Graham

My vote would be a 2.5 for 350bhp, only because it's unstressed and there's a greater spread of power and torque (more so the torque) than the 2.0 over a wider span of rpm.

Des
I enjoy my car with what it has just now as well. It gives a hell of an adrenaline rush, you have the performance which annihilates every other car that decides it wants to "prove" something that you meet on the roads where you drive (unless you live next to AndyF! lol), but, and it's a pretty big but, you're never fully at ease with it cause there's too much to think about (and in such a short space of time)and too many risks which are not worth taking at this level.
At 350bhp, you have as much power as is useable for british roads, you can concentrate more on the driving than what might happen when you're out enjoying the car.
If you're saying to me for example that your car at the level it's at just now, you can drive it through tight bends with your foot flat to the floor as it's going up through the rev range through bends, then you've got either big balls, great talent, no brain or have the most sorted chassis / suspension set up to control the car. If that's the case, then hats off to you.
My car can't be floored as i go through fairly tight bends, it just comes back to bite you cause it's too easy to lose traction. Not good, saps your confidence and dulls the level of adrenaline.

At 350bhp, i can (and have) pushed harder and harder trying to find the cars (and my) limits. So much so, that it is easy to drive 100% of the time in all conditions, road surfaces and types of roads.

I've got to say though that on likes of A class country roads, dual carriageways or motorway type stuff, it's nicer to have full boost on tap, cause passing any possible obstruction or restriction in traffic up ahead is so much easier on the stress levels cause you know you can power yourself out of "trouble", so to speak.

At 350bhp, i can (and have) pushed harder and harder trying to find the cars (and my) limits. So much so, that it is easy to drive 100% of the time in all conditions, road surfaces and types of roads.

Totally correct imho

(and to add: Have some Serious FUN)

Actually... I almost do (live next to Andy). I know where he maps and frequently drive on those roads. One of these days hes going to make me eat humble pie.... ;)

Hmmm, not at all... definitely don't regard myself as a 'wheelsman' but I will say this. When I drove my car at 300/300, I enjoyed the car immediately after the upgrade but got bored very quickly. At guess I would put this down to the fact that the car was still so exploitable (concentration levels were not as instense as now). Now, when I want to tootle around town (my wife uses the car as its the daily driver - two kids/two cars seats) the 2.5 makes the car a nice easy drive. When I want to go for a blast though, I really have to be on my toes which gives so much more satisfaction (part of the challenge) when going through corners than 300/300 did.

A question for you. You said 350/350 would suit you in hindsight but (excluding the curiosity you've mentioned) do you not think part of the reason you chased mega-bhp was because you were bored/un-intimidated by how easy the car was to drive at 100% at lower power? If you really did go back to 350/350, I'm willing to bet, you will hanker after 400/400 before long. Perhaps you are a bit to far down the line (part of the reason I asked for your thoughts on the GT35R, as I think the GT30R is just about perfect), but you might find dropping back a bit would be preferable than dropping back all the way. Thoughts?

Keep it coming guys :thumb:

I didn't realise you live *fairly* close Des. :) If you fancy meeting up at some point, you can experience the differences for yourself?

Yes, that's how i felt as well over the years. As the power went up, the initial buzz of the new found power level lasted a little longer each time, before i wanted to go for more.

I felt that was because it took that little bit longer to gain full confidence with each jump in acceleration levels as the power went up and i felt that i could handle that bit more, but it got to a point that i had so much acceleration, it soon become apparant that roads were very short (which weren't before) and bends became extremely tight (which weren't before..) and also traffic became much slower than i remember.. It also didn't help that greed took over as well when the car went beyond my capabilities. :D

The differences between your set up and mine i think are the key points which cause us to think differently on suitability.
I've experience of the GT30R with the 0.82 exhaust housing and now my GT35R. You have the GT30R with the 0.63 housing and my thoughts on what you have, concur with what you've said on here with it spooling up very quickly ( and hence being easy to drive) and having oodles of power to play with.

Mine is quite a bit different to what it was last year, in that it's still perfectly useable but there is a definite difference between off boost and on boost than before. It's more aimed towards the top end now than last year.

I took the car out yesterday to clear the cobwebs and although the weather was dry over here for some part of the day, it was cold and the road "looked" damp, certainly not bone dry. Even on the motorway as i headed towards some countryside, the car wouldn't accelerate without squirming and spinning its' wheels, and that's in 4th gear. I don't like full boonah in 5th much because it's a std gear, not a PPG gear (plus your way illegal... ahem). Because of that i need to do one of two things. Either turn the boost down to retain traction, or balance traction with throttle. And that's the bug. Having to continually balance traction with throttle is a pain because you can't always get the throttle (boost ) right for every situation, so after a while it becomes tedious.

I would say i chased the bhp through boredom, yes. That, and the natural curiosity of could i do it? along with the achievement of something i might otherwise have never done.

I don't think i would want more Des second time round, only because i have experience of the different levels over they years. My reasoning for 350/350 are fairly simple.
At 350/350 you have a choice of two unstressed engines if you like (in both 2 litre and 2.5litre) which can remain in std form i.e. std internals on both.
If you look at going for 400, although you can achieve this on std 2.0 internals, you are getting close to the point where uprated internals would give a greater safety margin or piece of mind at that power level. I feel it's fairly similar with the 2.5.
350bhp in a 2.0 or 2.5 litre are well within their comfort zone imo.

On the 2.5 for road use, the GT30R is just about perfect,certainly in my experience, though there's a couple of other options which look to be interesting and probably give just as much "fun factor". Look at what's been posted here and else where about Alan Bells car for example. I'd like the oportunity to drive a similar car if i was doing it again, though it may go against the grain of me being willing to spend that kind of money again for that kind of performance.
John Bank's car is another example (though it's an Evo). he's done bugger all to it in terms of modifications, but appears to have an extremely powerful and quick car for minimal outlay. I haven't tried it, but it looks that way.

I'm running 2.5L with uprated internals, UK heads with STi inlet (so no butterfly parts) and she's kicking out 470 bhp mark. Power comes in quick from 2,500 (nowt below that though) and on full chat not much over 3,100 - I'd say she'd pull lower than that if it wasn't for my wild Piper 285 cams...
She reminds me of my old 2 stroke motor with the instant kick of power and hard to see rev needle as she dances around and yet in higher gears, she's more like the 900 4 stroke I had, lots and lots of usable torque.

As for revs, mine will produce power past 6,000 although she does drop off a little but that's because of the hybrid turbo, nothing else (the heads etc have been "worked" on and lary cams). To be honest, she drives just like I want her to, no need rev past 6,000 and so much acceleration its mental...if I do go over 6000 its because I wasn't quick enough to change gear and hit the red line!:lol1:

Getting a EBC next so can control in gear boost...cant wait, although not sure how much I can turn it up over what I've already got (1.65 bar in 4th) as traction is always an issue!:norty:

Only thing I'd change over my 2.5L engine route is having the bores done with cast iron sleeves...my semi closed deck stops me going to power levels of 600 bhp - to go there now would mean another engine rebuild and another change of turbo - no thanks, spent way to much already...need spend on my poor house instead!

That comes across like your missing out on either or both ends of the rev range?

Maybe work on gaining at the top end and keeping low end as is? or is just that there's a wall of torque in mid range that top end feels flat in comparison?

Mines not really happy with full throttle (tho' it'll take it) 'til just under 2000rpm now, though it would take full throttle a good bit lower than this on the GT30R.

Can't help feeling that to spend 'time' while driving to balance traction to accelleraton will cost time (if you were racing from A to B timed (sorry: have to say like a hillclimb track).

If 550 x 550 overwhelms (sp) the chassis, perhaps 450 x 450 does not (diff/tyres uprated), then the 450 car will (could)be overall quicker to B from A (assuming bendy bits in the track!)

This would be especially so in damp/wet conditions.

Several of us have said that a 350 x350 is very drivable but becomes a bit boring; 400 x 400 is rather nice, and 450 x450 'keeps us on our toes'.:D

Can 550+ become tedious at times, even dangerous?

Graham