Radical idea guys, but why dont the owners of STi7 PPP's contact prodrive and insist on the fuel pump swap on grounds of safety?

I consider an engine failure a safety issue, not just in terms of safety to the engine, but in terms of what could be the outcome of your engine failing mid an overtake manouver. If you are making a close call on an overtake and the engine fails, that could kill you and the poor bugger coming the other way.

I would not wait on IM or Prodrive contacting you, i would be proactive and ask for the swap to be carried out. Now the STi8 PPP has had the pump added as an upgrade part of PPP a presedent has been set and they dont have any grounds to refuse you IMHO.

FWIW, I did some Defi recording on my way into work this morning.

Gear 4, mid rpms, boost 1.2bar, fuel pressure 4.4bar.
Gear 4, high rpms, boost (falling to) 1.1bar, fuel pressure 4.2bar.

Std STI7 fuel pump. The other gears gave similar results - basically the differential pressure (between the fuel pump output and boost) was always slightly greater than 3bar.



The question remains: if you fit an uprated fuel pump without a ECU remap, you may be running 5bar fuel pressure on boost. With the IDC's unchanged, the mixture will be even richer. Does this hurt things?

John,
I'll have to agree 100% on that one :D if you don't ask you don't get :rolleyes:

RT,
With those readings nothing wrong with your pump :) Yet :eek: reading this thread and what Peeps have said and E-mailed me there seems to be Three issues (Flame suit ready)

1) With STD UK/EU spec the pump at best, only just copes in certain senario's. Tests here shown that the pump struggles

2) STi7&8 with 300bhp + Some have poor performance/starting issues rectified by a replacement pump but some cope.

3) Alledgely STi7's(worldwide) have leaned out and gone POP but show no signs of poor performance :eek: the opposite in fact some have said was going the best it ever has then POP

Most Performance Tuner's have have stated that NO mods will be done unless the Pump is changed.

Prodrive now includes Fuel Pump in STi8 PPP

My STi7PPP'd goes well/starts well, tested by Prodrive :D but am I like you got the odd pump thats good pump or is impending doom and gloom waiting to bite us.

Well this is How I see it but I do seem to have a different view of things to everyone else :D LOL

Tony

My guess re the 03 STi PPP having a new pump, and not the 02, is that the 02 PPP is currently running the piggyback board and it doesn't push the pump towards the limit quite as much as the EcuTek map on the 03 does.

Allegedly the 02 PPP will change to an EcuTek flash remap rather than the piggyback once stocks of the piggyback board run out, so I suspect that later (EcuTek) versions of the 02 PPP will also include a new pump.

Please note all IMHO;)

PS Adam

I freely admit to being anal some of the time, but Matt understands because he is anal ALL of the time ;);):D:D

Deep I had to use surprisingly high duty cycles - used about 55% maximum all the way up and this made a nice 1.35 bar rolling off gently. I thought it would boost creep like silly from what everyone said, but a flat duty made the turbo follow a nice efficiency curve without control problems.

Just checked the Subaru UK site and they have removed the PPP from the WR Sport area?

its on there when I look there.....

John

How do you know people have'nt been contacting Prodrive/IM about it?

I think any potential fuelling issues would have come up during STI 8 testing and so sparked off the debate as to the STI 7 fuelling within Prodrive and IM before we the public even knew about it.

I'm sure Prodrive and IM are looking into these findings closely and will do the right thing to protect the engines of their customers(and prevent too many expensive warranty repairs for themselves). Since most of the failures that I know of have been during/after prolonged high speed runs, then I would think keeping the car below 5K revs in 5th/top when cruising would be enough to reduce the risk of potential engine failure.

Neil
:) Mushroms come to mind :rolleyes: 'They are kept in the dark and fed on bullsh*t' :eek: Subaru parts are at fault here :( and not Prodrive PPP IMHO so a Email to both perhaps ?

I have the Mk1 version of STi7 PPP which alledgelly is not quite so good a version as the MK2 :rolleyes: I hope I can download a Patch/upgrade off the internet ;) LOL

Tony

Spoolink misstack :(

[Edited by T5NYW - 2/13/2003 3:38:06 PM]

If S-UK are changing pumps within STi8 PPP packs, then surely that implies that there is a pump which can be fitted without affecting warranty????

My 7/PPP goes to W Bromwich later this month - the suspension rattle saga continues:(:(:( - I might ask them in an innocent tone of voice whether they'd like to change the fuel pump while they've got it, and see what response I get!!

The fact that they've changed the pump for 8/PPP and now know that the SN community knows, puts them in a difficult position IMHO, since if an accident were to occur they could end up with very substantial liability.

I had been relatively reassured by Pat's first post, but there seems to be more to this than I then came to expect..... I line up with exactly T5NYW's concerns.

I, too, would be pretty cross to find that ECUtek PPPs were issued for 7s and were to prove superior..... Does Pete C have a view on this..... I seem to remember a post about cans and worms on the floor......?

Phil

Phil

LOL about the worms :)

YHM

I hope no one concludes from posts on this topic, that subsequent batch's of STi7 PPP's ECU's, are not Piggy back types :rolleyes: I am led to believe only the STi8's PPP's will be reprogramed by Prodrive using EcuTek software and Sti7's remain P/Back.

Phil,
Before Christmas Prodrive tested mine :D:D but when I asked about PPP P/Back or remapped the 7 P/back was defended saying little to be gained on the 7 as it does what it was meant to. I cant remember exact terminology :eek: something like software more cost effective long term compared to short term hardware Mods. And not due to Performance gains. I struggle to remember yesterday let alone last year :(

Having mine Delta Dashed and AP22 Sunday :D:D better do it on the Track ;)

Tony

John,thanks.

Have a little patience chaps, and I am sure the MY02 STi pump issue will be resolved satisfactorarily;)

/me winks at DTS in a non sexual way ;)

Glad to hear it, he says in a gruff manly sort of voice......;)

ahhhhh - that looks like a 'Dave knows something' moment again ;)

Ids

I've had a chat with Iain Litchfield and he has confirmed that I can upgrade my pump with no warranty implications on my STi. He did also say that his supplier has spoken with Subaru Japan and they will not authorise a warranty replacement of the pump in standard cars as they feel the pump is up to the job in this case.

Presumably, Prodrive/IM may just be getting ready to replace the pumps in PPP vehicles only?

Matt :)

Matt

Don't forget that in Japan, the car has a 112mph speed limit fitted, so will not see high boost AND high rpm, under high load.

Couldn't comment on that Matt ;)

[Edited by russell hayward - 2/14/2003 1:11:23 PM]

I couldn't possibly comment.....;)

Pete,
Very good and valid piont :cool: Lower gearing and restricted not many JDM's doing 140mph ish 7.5krpm in 5th with the associated loads/drag.(long straight at Bedford)

IMHO Prodrive only really need to Protect their part in the STi7/8 which is the PPP and Subaru/IM would need to sort out the STD STi7's.

Tony

Russ,
;)

I wasn't forgetting and that statement was made to an EU importer, with regard to the Type UK model.

Therefore, I'm not certain that the JDM argument in this case has any bearing on the matter. I think that nobody disagrees that the standard pump is only just good enough for the job, and a slightly dodgy one will quickly kill your car. I have also heard an unconfirmed rumour that the Evo 7 uses the same pump as the STi and Mitsubishi have been recalling some. Anyone got any facts on this matter?

Matt :)

Having owned an sti7 ppp which has just had a complete new block fitted because of piston meltdown i thought these might be a few valid points i have posted on (hesitating sti7 post) that before my sti7 went bang that at about 4k to 6k revs that i was getting hesitation then after 6k revs there was a big surge in power (ie the pump could not supply enough fuel) so lean mixtue hence erratic surge in power this might be good advice for others who posted with same symptoms my car blew approx 15 minuits after a good 15 min spurt at about 120 -140 mph (private road ) my dealer hasn,t mentioned that they have changed the fuel pump so i am probley still driving around with original but as i,m running in ive not been above 4k revs and every thing feels fine if any one out there prodrive? scooby sport, tsl, etc want to test my pump to see if its doddgy i,ll do all i can to help. My last point is when i picked up my car from dealers i was told to be xtra carefull when running in as if i had any problems they would pull the telemetry out of the ecu to make sure i had run it in properly (ie not thrashed it) is this technolergy possible cos some body earlier in this post said they would put there car back to standard before they took it to a dealers? but there would be no point if they could tell if youve been running more boost,air flow etc daz..

Daz,
I'll see you tomorrow at the Birdlip ;) is the wife and daughter comming ?

Tony

Guys, this type of discussion is far to complicated for me, but I thought I might share some news with you.

Currently I drive an Sti7 UK, and went to my local dealer today to enquire about PPP. Dealer stated that Prodrive had visited a couple of weeks earlier and had brought with them an Sti7 running an Sti8 PPP pack. Dealer also stated that the performance was awesome, and when questioned, Prodrive commented that the car was producing circa 320 bhp on the rollers.

Should I wait, Is this a sign of things to come?

Darren

Darren,

I would be very surprised if Prodrive had told anyone that the PPP is capable of 320bhp - they usually stick to the quoted figure (and last time I asked them, they said the quoted figures).

Perhaps the dealer is using a little artistic license to sell the PPP? ;):)

Matt :)

D'ont really want to get involved in this but when I was going to order an UK Sti7, spotty salesman told me adding an exhaust would take the car safely to 320 BHP.Yes I did giggle, and then put the phone down.

Tony yes mate see you in morning daz...