Such is life though. Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone.:)

Edited to add the 'she', wouldn't want to incur the wrath of the Scoobynet female contingent.:D

His biggest problem will probably the next election!

Les

well said rapid seven , religion was invented by people that wanted to , and still do ,to control people . when you look at the context of our planet in the scheme of the universe it is soooo insignificant it's beyond belief , why an omnipitent being would have anything to do with us is ridiculous !! it's beyond faith !!!!

As I said a few pages ago, any Holy book is fairy tales and doctrine.

That's all fair enough that you believe religion is ridiculous and fairy tales...I however hold a totally different opinion. One thing is for certain we will find out one day won't we.

ahh , but there are so many different religions , who's to say which one is correct , because there are going to be an awful lot of dissappointed
" believers " , are there not ??? ie: they can't all be right !!

I didn't say religion was ridiculous, I said fairy tales and doctrine. It's a form of control, and by the looks of it quite an effective one. We shall indeed find out if it is true or not. I'll take my 79 virgins ( or whatever the number is) now rather than later thanks.

Oy you jammy git share and share alike!:D

Scoobydooooo

I did not suggest all religions are correct and I certainly do not believe that at all.

scoobynutta555

I did not suggest that religion was ridiculous someone else did and besides if you say it is about fairy tales then you might as well say that anyway. Anyone who follows fairy tales must be involved in something ridiculous.

Regards the virgins statement I am happy to discuss issues with anyone as long as they are reasonable but if you want to start being sarcastic then it is better that we do not converse. I don't really want to get into a tit for tat discussion. Let us just be fair to one another eh?

Yes it is better that we do not converse. I like disucssion where facts are debated. In this case there are no facts to discuss just interpretation of doctrine and stories.

No problem again that is your own opinion... I respect your honesty. However your statement was unfair as I do not for one minute believe that suicide bombing will give me any virgins at all.

i didn't say that you did , my point is all religions believe that they are the one true faith , well they can't all be , so someone is in for a big shock ,are they not ?? so if you are a " believer " how do you know it's the right choice or is it lucky dip ??

Always nice to read Aaquils comments as clearly he means well, but being part of a society where we base things on science and fact, its difficult to take someone serious who bases things on myth and fairytale.

Its really is like having some clever person, but they really and truely believe in the tooth fairy - you just cant look at them on the same level.

Religion has no place in a modern society - we really need to act to restrict it. People who place religion before the laws of the land should be forced to relocate to another country.

Thanks for the nice comment (if that's what you meant by it?!). I am just making comments on what I truly believe to be true maybe you should read the Quraan before making assumptions about other people belief...the media is no way to grasp an understanding of Islaam I'll tell you that for nothing. The tooth fairy and Islaam are worlds apart and is a poor similitude but again that is just my opinion. Maybe you have already read the Quraan if that is the case I take back my previous statement.
What law of the land are being put second place to the religion that I follow?

Aaquil

Why do you think if we were to read the Quraan our views would change? Serious question.

Ben v7

If you did read it you would then see it is not just full of fairy tales and fables. You cannot comment on something until you experience it or read up about it and the Quraan is the most authentic source of Islaam.

I would suggest 'The Noble Qur'an' translated by Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali PhD (Berlin) and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan. Publishers 'Maktba Dar-Us-Salam'. It is in modern English rather than that hard of the head old English style text. It also has commentary on some verses from authentic narrations. So try it out?

Try here for somebody who has read the Qur'an in depth and analysed it.
http://debate.org.uk/topics/history/quran.htm#I4

It's not just fairy tales but also doctrine. From what I have read it's just a consensus of thought from a small group of narrow minded males.

Indeed the more you read of the Qur'an the more out of step it becomes vis a vis modern life here in the west.

One prime example is the treatment of females. According to what I have noticed, females are of a vastly inferior status. Which brings us neatly back to the wearing of veils etc.

Serious question :

Regarding the Virgins waiting in the afterlife for you. How do Muslim women view this? It must be a pretty depressing way of going through a marriage knowing (if to be believed) that your husband will be awarded with a load of virgins (presumably for sex?) when he dies. What if the woman dies first, do they expect to have to wait for their husband only to find that he shows up and hey presto, theres virgins all over him and she's playing 73'rd(or whatever) fiddle!?

Also, are these virgins supposed to be the souls of other women who died before they married or is ther supposed to be a stock of them for each male?

No disrespect meant, it seriously makes me wonder.

EDITED : Are there any Muslim women on this board ?

Its all just a load of false hope and utter bollocks.

Aaquil,

Tell us all including me how you can prove to us that your " god " so to speak actually exists, if you can prove it with fact then i'll believe you. Please don't come back with a reply saying its faith and its what you believe in, base your reply on fact please, as your dictating to us that what your saying is true.

Also Aaquil, millions of dedicated worshipers from different faiths pray and beleive every day. You ask each of all these millions of people if ANY of them have actually ever seen there god, and can prove it with fact, im one million percentage positive that the answer is zero.

Think of it this way, in simplistic 21st century terms, since mankind, not ever has god been proven, and the technology and resources we have now is better than its ever been, so doesnt it make you think that no one ever sets out to prove whether there is a god ? No they dont, because any business man worth anything would not invest and waste millions of pounds into a pointless exercise.

I feel sorry for the likes of you and the million others who worship faith, that in the cold reality of life, it isn't actually true, and your brainwashed into believing so, by reading ridicolous fiction based books that were written 100's of years ago, that had a purpose then I guess, but they dont in modern 21st century life. People have computers and playstations and fast cars. Back then they had nothing to do other than make families, eat, drink and pray.

At the end of the day, its yours and everyone else's choice if you want to beleive in faith, but when it causes problems like it is doing now ( and through all of mankind may I add ) and getting the modern mans back up when you's lot rub it into our faces, you should all piss off to somewhere where its tolerated, and leave the majority alone to get on with modern living.

Faith should be banished, like the plague. Infact religion takes more lives than cancer.

Faith is the modern day plague.

R7

muslim women are completely entitled to wear the veil whenever they legally are allowed. That is their right in a free country such as ours.
What they should also realise is that non muslims unused to sepaking to someone wearing a veil will react in many ways when talking to them. Many people use facial expressions to judge the conversation. The muslim women wearing the veil should realise that this may cause a more negative, or un-communicative response from the person, innocently. The person may feel uneasy as this is not what they are used to. In the context of seeing Jack Straw for issues regarding his constituency, the muslim women who wear veils need to understand that the response from Jack Straw may be not be the same as if they were not wearing the veil, and JS will possibly react differently on the matter being discussed without intending any bias.

Are you a Muslim woman,Ted?

no

ok:D

as long as they have a proper passport, driving license, other offical ID pictures without the veil and have to follow sensible rules like remove it in banks then I realy don't see the problem?

Its a free country and if I want to dress up as Darth vader and wander around talking to people with my built in voice changer then I can. I think I realiase that people would look at me and probably interact differently with me. So whats the big deal?

And before anyone says it I am not muslim or a women, but I do reserve the right to dress up as one (including veil) if I feel inclined to do so.

Might look weird with unfeasablylargegonads though eh ?

may the force be with you
 

'Nads old chap, the problem is that you're not going to get a job if you disguise yourself as Darth at every interview. Should the rest of society have to carry you because of your irrational preference to exclude yourself from the mainstream? :nono:

That is a big deal, surely? :confused:

That's essentially the crux of the matter. Withdrawing from mainstream society and putting barriers up in the form of veils etc. Possibly a contributing factor to the asian lady last week hanging herself and her 2 kids.

Doubtless many women of this faith feel the need for a veil and actually want to wear one. What must not be forgotten is the peer pressure and the expectations of others that they should wear one in the first place, and the objectivity of these women in closed environments such as this.

I even read yesterday that a Muslim school is going to start receiving state funding next year, and the quota of non muslims attending (25% IIRC for state funding) would have to wear hijabs etc.

I find it truely strange that other politicians are publically distancing themselves from Jack Straw yet an overwhelmingly massive majority of people in the UK support his views.

After watching and reading about the previous weeks' party conferences, it irks me that Cherie Blair and Boris Johnson seem to be the only 2 stories that are worth mentioning. The rest was policy-free self promotion and unseemly jostling.

lol, that maybe true, unless of course I was going for a job as a darth vader impersonator ;)

Yes I imagine it does narrow their employment oppertunities outside of non muslim employers. But this is no different to arguing that no one can dress as a Punk or have any other strange personal preference (such as a massive beard, piercings, long hair, tattoos, etc....).

I still fail to see what right any of us has to tell anyone else what to wear or what not to wear when it does not directly effect anything offical such as ID at passport control and simlar situations.

Limits
 

So you think it would be right for a pedo to be allowed to walk around bollock naked outside a primary school? :Suspiciou

now you are just being silly, personaly I have nothing against people wandering around with nothing on (certainly large breasted fit women). The example you use of a pedo is more a reflection on the actions of a person rather than their clothing, I would find it unaceptable for a pedo to walk around in front of a school in any type of clothing.