They're quicker now because of advances in aerodynamics and chassis technology. With modern engine management, advances in materials, automatic gearboxes and antilag, any F1 team would jump at the chance to use a 1500bhp 1.5 litre turbo. Think of the packaging advantages, too.

Does anyone mind if i ask what page the arguement about the actual thread title ended

Page 1. The remainder was a (very insightful in many places) discussion on Turbo vs NA engines and 200mph MR2s.

I'm not going to let this thread become an F1 wank-a-thon by a few turboheads here. Throwing around buzz words like "chassis technology" and "aerodynamics" without understanding them is a weak arguement.

The regulations in F1 restrict major advances in aero. Aero ground effects (downforce with minimal drag) were effectively banned years ago. Tires are now treaded and have size restrictions. The minimal weight of car + driver is virtually the same for the past 2 decades.

One thing is for sure is that modern F1 cars are faster thanks to a substantial gains in usable horsepower. It is not the only factor that improves performance, but it clearly does. The fast circuits (Monza) with low aerodynamic set-ups clearly show how superior the modern natural aspirated cars are. Even in 1989 (the season where they returned to 3.5 litres) the lap records were higher in the N/A cars. It's not merely about having more power, it's about having more PERFORMANCE.

And leave the "anti-lag" gimmick to the Southend cossie massive, I'm sure a professional race team would rather have no lag and less moving parts to begin with.

Unlike you, I have an NA car :D

I think first page, second post ;) :D

Quite happy to sort one of the many questions posed here out. I organise sprint meetings, next one coming up is in June this year. There is a guy who shows up regularly in a "cooking" skyline, running around 450bhp - so (according to some on this thread) should be fair game for a BMW M3 running around 350bhp. The sprint is a time trial competition, best of 3 runs, one car at a time against the clock. Standing start, flying finish, about 2 clicks of straights (200-400 metres in length) interlaced with a mixture of tight and high speed turns. All we need is an M3 owner up for a bit of fun :) Oh he/she will need to know how to drive ;) :D

Trying to second guess the score is just so much talk and no action, but I'm a gambling man, in my opinion the Skyline would chew up an M3 and spit it out for breakfast :) Allcomers welcome (assuming driver is medically fit and eligible to acquire a national 'b' non-race competition licence etc. etc.)

I think this would be fun to do, but I am expecting lots of "you're missing the point" backtracking ;) :D :rolleyes:

I have both..

You also have a seriously distorted viewpoint.
I think everyone understands now that YOU don't like GTR's. I think it's about time you stopped spouting your blinkered view so much and let everyone else get on with a reasoned debate.

Cem

Are you a troll, incapable of admitting you are very very wrong ?

davyboy you say

"I think that says a lot about the type of people who frequent these events too"

"RWYB events do seem to attract rather a lot of Playstation generation, baseball cap wearing neds.
"

lets get one thing clear shall we, we go to RWYB event's to enjoy or test our own car's and also hopefully get to see and hear some other nice cars.

what with the e46 m3 being as popular as a audi tt, it start's to dilute it's flavour, therefore seeing them every minute now makes seeing them just that bit more boring.

therefore seeing them on the road now you just think yes there's an m3 big deal, two to the pound.

r34 skylines are as rare on the road as ferrari 355's 360's etc, and makes seeing them etc that bit more special.

and also your recent comments made you sound like a bit of a stuck up bell end, and seeing as your in favour of the great m3, im sure you are.

i bid you farewell

It's like convincing a bunch of kids that Santa doesn't exist...

A thousand classy coupes within every square mile is still better than one cheesy, plasticy, blandly upholstered turbo-wagon. BMW M3s sell because they are usable, they are realistic, real-world cars. They are drivable and don't look overwelming to most eyes. They are performance machines that make sense in the long term. The Skyline on the otherhand is nothing but a foreign fad, a mass produced novelty from abroad appreciated here by the few. Most will grow out of it. Some do not and continue to shove the Skyline hype down people's throats like a religious cult. A hype based on delusions within small circles of the "skyline community". You are not interested in facts, you're only interested in that the hype spreads.

*ME*, "Cosworth427", prefering responsive cars like the M3 doesn't imply an don't like GTR's. But that's your problem if you can't accept opinion that differs from your own. Opinion that cannot be debated with fact. But some of my opinions ARE BASED on FACTS to boot! But, if you don't like the impedance of opinions, f**k you, Cem. :D - I'm pretty well experienced in working with turbocharged and natural aspirated cars to build a valid opinion that I can hold. I have driven them as everday cars, and I have driven them in a manner for best performance. Natural aspirated is MY way to go for street use, and it is in MY opinion that the M3 *IS* the better car for the road for my needs.

Still have a problem with that? Then go polish your fake non-functioning GT-R spoiler, nazi.

Leave it off with the abuse lads. This ain't the place for it! We all enjoy a bit of banter, but this thread is going a bit far. Other than that, it's fantastic reading :D
My choice would be the R34 for many reasons. I have always loved M3's, but it's untrue how many E46's you see kicking about. Today, i've seen 6 different ones alone. I'd be a bit gutted if i owned one. Having said that, i've got an MY99 Scoob, and it seems like there's one on every corner :D

my final point on this thread...


last sunday, i saw 3, yes 3, r33 skylines driving around town where i live. i didnt see another m3 all day, and rarely do i see many at all. and ive yet to see another technoviolet one (a question of taste perhaps? :D )
ive yet to see a ferrari f40 on the roads, but i wouldnt want one as my only, every day car either.
my point is this, if, in your guts, you love a car, it doesnt matter how many people have one (scoobys are a good example), perhaps the reason so many have an m3, is because, wait for it, they really ARE that good? ;)
in a straight line drag, a tuned r34 will win, but then theres so much more to an m3 than outright speed. i dont need a particular car to feel part of a club/elite, and certainly dont base my life around them anymore.

be happy with your choice, sod what anyone else thinks, and have fun, thats the most important thing, not bhp ;) :)

[tongue firmly in cheek]

Nah, the reason *most* M3 owners have an M3 is because it has a BMW badge and is of a higher spec than the other 3 series BM's on their company car list ;)

[flame suit on]

:D

The problem I have with the M3 is that, apart from a few subtleties, it just looks like every other 3-series repmobile. Proper sports cars should look like sports cars, IMHO.

I'm no particular fan of the Skyline, but it doesn't look like anything else. Imagine if they did a whole range of them (I know they do in Japan) starting with the 1.8i, which was on everyone's company car list :D

LOL-1.8i Estate Skyline complete with cage for the dog.:)

Interesting comment to make on a Scooby board.

Surely a proper sports car is one that drives like one... not looks like one... otherwise 206CCs and Hyundai coupes would be "sports cars". Based on your comment, a Skyline, M5, RS6, RS4, AMGs, Jag-R-type, STi, WR1, Evo8 are not sports cars.

About 70% of the outside of an M3 is bespoke. I suggest you take a proper look next time you see one which, according to this thread, should be in the next 5 minutes.

I seem to be able to spot one a mile away and my eyes aren't even that great... even my wife can tell the difference (and she is just one step above differentiating all cars by their colour).

If all else fails... try specsavers ;-)

What car do you drive out of interest?

Which company car lists have M3s on them? Do let me know, I'd like to apply for a job.

And with that comment, you've just been promoted to King Troll 2004.

Hahhaaha....

I have absolutely no problem with you expressing an opinion. However, as far as I'm concerned, unless you've owned or driven a GTR then you have no right whatsoever to compare the two cars! It's so simple.

I've never been to Brazil so I cannot possibly be expected to be taken seriously if I were to have commented on it's home culture.

Furthermore, I credit you for your understanding of turbocharged cars over N/A cars, but then this isn't an arguement over forced induction verses otherwise. It's about GTR's v M3's and in order to be respected you need to provide a subjective and non-insulting arguement.

Now if you can't do that, then I suggest you crawl up your own ar5e, otherwise, be nice.

Cem

TVR Cerbera

:D Nice motor there pal

...but amazingly unreliable.

Really :)

Turbos rule!

If you pull the fuse on the hicas system does it not turn it RWD ?

BTW mr mercilless,what car are you going to choose?

Heh you'll probably laugh but now looks like neither the M3 or the Skyline!!!

I've just been told there's a new company car scheme coming in to operation and it now makes sense to be balanced and just have one car instead of having both a dull company car and a sports car.

But I've been told by the MD that I can't drive anything too flash so I'm hoping to buy either the 350Z or an STI8 PPP depending on what I can get away with.

hoping to buy either the 350Z or an STI8 PPP depending on what I can get away with.[/QUOTE]

HAHA that is very ironic, after all that.

Well i suppose settling for a 350z or a STi 8 isnt too bad (serious sarcasm)

You Lucky git:D

Yeah I'm quite pleased with how it's turned out but I've had years of uninspiring rep mobiles so it's about time I had something decent to drive.

Test drove the 350z today, was well impressed, looks the business as well.

Just have to test drive the Scoob now, on looks and equipment the Nissan wins hands down, but I know I'll just love the thump in the back you get with the turbo, hope I can remain rational!