lemondrop71

need a bit of advice i brought a subaru impreza about 2 weeks ago and i was sat talking to someone and the police just come over to me and said is this your car i said yes they then went on to say start ur engine and rev to 3000 and i did he then gave me a ticket for noise and my number plate which today ifind out its 100 for number plate and 50 for the noise i rang police to ask to speak to his superviser and i spoke to him he said he d get back to me so i then get another call from his superviser saying the officer says u were giving it sum just before u pulled up so he said i was comitting an offence so theres nothing he can do the exhaust was on car when i got it from api impreza and the number plates where too just wondering what to take to court and what to do nxt thanks for all advice:

Yardz

iTrader: (1)

Are you taking it to court? Or have you got a court summons?

lemondrop71

court now by look of things as getting no joy had letter today says if you want to pay 100 for number plate and 50 for exhaust just fill it in and return

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

how many db was it on test, if it's a import with a sva test you are allowed 101db, not 89db as per eu law, i have been through this and won, pm me a phone number if you need help, or look up the thread on here JUST GOT A NIP, and have a good read

lemondrop71

didnt use a test he just said it was and he says he never lost a case

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Like speeding he can't guess how fast he can't guess how loud.

There is a standard format for testing exhaust try finding some one with sound meter.

What was wrong with number plate ? May have to pay that and dispute exhaust

Read his thread above and also this one

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/t...Exhaust+Noise+

Tony

Ps is yours a red or silver bugeye in Hereford. ?

lemondrop71

green one

lemondrop71

mines is bright green subaru

lemondrop71

number plate is 4 mm out i found out when asked another police officer to measure it dont really mind paying that but thought he wud of just said change it with in 7 days but no 100 fine

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

If its an import you are allowed smaller number plates too.

Please take a moment to put proper grammar and spelling into your posts so we can help you a bit more mate.

Also provide full details of the car, import or not model etc!

Thanks

lemondrop71

not sure but think uk one its a subaru impreza wrx on dynamometers read out its on a t plate

lemondrop71

the rear pipe is mongoose and centre is the same cost 300 and api impreza fitted it which i found out today

lemondrop71

someone please give me link for just got to nip

madscoob

iTrader: (3)

it's top of page 1 on here now

LuckyWelshchap

madscoob's re-posted his story.
Link is this, in case it gets demoted with any new threads starting:

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...got-a-nip.html

You'll see that the general idea is that plod has to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that you were committing an offence.

That means the officer either had to have:
a) such a wonderful sense of hearing and understanding of acoustics that he could be believed as an authority and that his belief that your exhaust did break the law was therefore reasonable; or
b) a device which could be relied on to show that your exhaust did in fact break the law.

He of course had neither - just like 'Just got a nip".

Next, you say the number plate 'is 4mm out'.
What do you mean - it's 4mm too short?
No such requirement, it's the size of the lettering that counts (my NP is about 4-6 ins shorter than most - it's legal though).

Exactly - and I mean exactly - what parts of the law are you alleged to have broken?

Post 'em up and I bet we'll take 'em apart for you

PS quote exactly, word for word, what the charges are.

lemondrop71

right the alleged offence are as follows
regulations contary to section 59(1) of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994
contary to regulation 97 of the road vehicles regulations 1986 section 42 of the road traffic act 1988 and schedule 2 to the road traffic offenders act 1988.. excessive noise



this is what happened we were parking up to eat kfc and then one of our friends come over to speaak to us the police officer walked over and said can you please start your car up and rev it to 3000 revs then he said turn it of and then said i am arressted you on the road traffic act of excessive noise etc he then went on to say come round back of the car said look at the number plate and he said its out the letters are to far apart and it does not have bsa stamp on it .he then said open bonnet and did as asked he said does insurance company know about all the mods said yes has we took pictures for them to see gave us a green ticket and walked away

LuckyWelshchap

Right then, let's start with this bit.
Without looking at the other thread (Just got a NIP) I suspect this is the bit about it being an offence to modify an exhaust with the intention of making it louder. (I remember the S59 bit).

There's a few bits to this:

1) YOU have to be proven to have modified the exhaust (it's not unlawful to own a car with a modified exhaust, it's unlawful to do the modifying).
This is important because if plod can't prove that you modified it (or of course if you can prove you didn't ie. it came with the car) then there's no case. Also, if the car's passed an MoT while in your possession then that's more support for you.

2) The obvious one - it has to be proved that the modified system IS louder than standard. Human beings' opinions are subjective eg. what's loud to you might not be to me (or louder). That's why machines are used.
Plod wouldn't arrest you for drink driving would they? They'd arrest you ON SUSPICION of it, use a machine to measure the alcohol and then on that evidence decide whether to prosecute or not.
Same with this.
If he thinks it was too loud he should have got a sound meter there and then and tested it in the proper manner (which roughly is taking it to a quiet area away from walls etc. which could echo).
Tbh they haven't a leg to stand on. No evidence to produce in court.
They'll try it on and like MS' experience before the formal trial (they'll have you in Court at which you plead NG and then they commit for trial) the charge will most likely be dropped (not in the public interest, little chance of conviction and cost of prosecution in time and effort is not cost effective).

3) Next, were you parked on a public road or in KFC's car park?
Strictly speaking you weren't committing any offence re. the exhaust if the engine wasn't running, and of course you can't be charged with an offence if you caused it by obeying police instructions (eg. a road diversion where you are directed over double-whites - they wouldn't have you for that would they???????).
If it was a private car park I think he's on dodgy ground (pardon the pun).
It might be noise nuisance which is a council matter (Env Health).
The example here is if you were revving your car on your driveway. Neighbours would report you to EH for noise, although plod could come for breach of the peace.
In any case, the officer could - and should, to remove any doubt - have waited until you were on the public highway.

4) A very important question - is your car pre- or post Sept 2001?
Basically is it a 51 plate or earlier?
Did he measure the characters and spacing on the plate, and of course take photos as evidence?

5) Interesting one this.
I've just spent about 10 mins looking through DVLA's site regarding BSA stamps. Obviously the stamp says that it is up to the British Standard.
But surprisingly I can't find anywhere on the site that says you have to have plates that are up to it, only the material, reflective surfaces etc.
However, it's useful in line with what I'm going to suggest below.

6) Regarding opening the bonnet, how does he know what mods if any have been done, simply by looking - or does he have some sort of magic vision and brain that can detect a remap for example?

You'll see that there's loads of things to pick at.

I'd suggest this:

• Don't pay a penny yet;
• When you get reminders etc. say you intend fighting it;
• When charged (or before) ask for exactly how many decibels the exhaust was throwing out at 3K rpm, and what the range is for your car.
• I'd even ask if the officer knew exactly what model you had, so that it's clear that his opinion was based on the correct stats.
• Carefully check the number plates against the DVLA's rules (just go to the website https://www.gov.uk/displaying-number...-number-plates
  
• Keep us updated.

You'll see from 'Just got a NIP' how useful this all is.

Just one last thing - you hadn't been p!ssing people off had you?
Sometimes plod isn't plod, but simply an officer trying to find a way around a difficult job.

lemondrop71

we parked in public car park plod now says we were giving it some as we come on to car park and car is t reg and we have prove mods where done before we had car and api did them all

lemondrop71

as for number plate plod now state is it because in back ground of number plate it says api and says there from the internet and not road legal spoken to sgt and he says he is standing by the officer

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Police: auxiliary tax gatherers and government enforcers, yet again.

scooby87

iTrader: (5)

Sad but true.

To the OP you should win this case, doesn't seem like plod has sufficient evidence. Check the number plate though with DVLA as mentioned above.

The Pink Ninja

iTrader: (23)

If your numberplate does NOT have the BSAU145d reference....Pay up, Regardless of who fitted it, Its NOT legal and you wont win in a court with it, Its also an MOT failure,

The exhaust is dodgy ground, If its a UK car its not standard simple as that, If you want to take them to court over it...It wont be a good outcome IMO

LuckyWelshchap

It doesn't matter if you were "giving it some" as far as the modified exhaust is concerned. If you were then I'd expect careless driving, even breach of the peace or something (but obviously that would be overkill so he's gone for something that rests on his word against yours by the look of it).

If the car is T Reg then the 2001 regulations don't come into it.
That means plod shouldn't have brought up about a BS stamp etc. - which of course means that he doesn't actually know some of the basics.

.

Well Sarge is, isn't he?
However, just because they're from the internet doesn't make them unlawful. They have to 'not conform' to UK rules for them to be illegal.
Check the link I gave you. I think it's the Group 2 rules you need (cars after 1973 and before 2001).

I take it the plates were the right colour?
So, check the spacing, size and font of the characters - you get more leeway for a pre-2001 car.
Next, if they are not lawful replace them immediately.

However, STILL do not pay any fine.
If you don't pay you could get taken to court and in a court of law the prosecustion has to produce evidence.

I can imagine it:

CPS: "So Constable Plod, you believed the number plate(s) on Mr Chav's car to be illegal, is that correct?"

PC Plod: "Yes"

CPS: "Why"

"Because they said API and didunt have a BS stamp"

"Anything else?"

"The numbers and lettas wazn't spaced out properly"

Defence: "Did you take photos to show the ladies and gentlemen of the bench?"

"No I didunt".

"Why ????"

"Because I fawt Mr Chav would come quietly wiv a fixed penalty fine".

Obviously I'm not implying you're a young tearaway, I've gone a bit overboard just to illustrate how things could be made to look and how over-the-top this is or could get.

IF you believe your plates to be legal (and presumably the car's passed an MoT with them on) take a photograph and keep the MoT certificate(s) safe. Produce them in court if necessary.
It can't be proven that you've changed them (because you haven't) and hence you have the legal excuse that you had every reason to believe you and your car was within the law. (That might not be enough but at least it's a very valid reason and if you are found guilty I'd have thought the beaks would look more favourably).

Depending upon the circumstances revving the car to 3000 could be a nuisance and the officer has caused that.

Stick to your guns imo and keep diary notes of everything.
Chances are that another stop will be forthcoming and if this turns into some sort of crusade your written trail of events will be invaluable.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Since APi keep getting mentioned - what is the reg of the car? We don't make plates here but do have a licence to have our details on them at the local factors who make them for us.

Sounds like someone has had a plate made and just cut up one of our stickers and put it on.

David