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Old 23 June 2015, 01:24 PM
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BrokenSpring
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Default Soon to be owner of a classic

Hello all

I figure i should finally say hello, as i've been stalking these great forums for a number of months. I have learned an awful lot so far and looking forward to putting it all into practice

Currently i have an mg zr going up for sale to fund part of my new 2000 turbo.

I am looking for a classic 2000 turbo in the north west area. ( obviously with all the boxes ticked ie service history,unmodified,running smooth,no rusty arches) Seems to be tricky to find one that has not been messed with. (if anyone can point me the right way that would be ace.) Also looking for it to be under £2500 .

I have a few questions to get started.
Did the 98 classics come with any kind of standard alarm system?
Are there any regular meets\drives in the NW?
People who own a classic 98\99, what are the running costs like?

Had to let a really nice example near me go today as i have 26 days till my current insurance is up and i can insure the new car with a year no claims. Am a sad bean
Old 23 June 2015, 02:37 PM
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FMJ
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Hi, I was in your position 9 years ago but back then it was easier to find what you are looking for! I got a MY00 UK turbo with one owner, FSH and only 58,000miles not a single mod.

These days almost all classics have a bit of rust on the rear arches (which always means lots inside the arch where you can't see). Most have been modified and not many people will have kept the proper service history for over 15 years. If you do find one I doubt very much that you will get one for £2500.

Ideally you want a 99-00 as they have lots of benefits over the earlier cars including a Thatcham alarm.

Running costs.

Depends if you service yourself really labor costs will depend where you go.

Fuel is low 20's to mid 20's mpg average and high 20's on long journeys.

From memory....
Oil changes every six months or 7,500m.

Two years or 24,000m Plugs , fuel filter, air filter, transmission fluid, brake fluid and clutch fluid.

Three years is cambelt and usually tensioner, pulleys and water pump.

Don't put crap tyres on them as you will find the tyres limits quickly!

Things like tyres, brakes, clutch will all depend on the driver and the cars history.

The other thing to think about is that the youngest cars are 15 years old. For a performance car that's quite an age. Although there are good ones out there that will go on much longer there will be loads on their last legs with regards to engines, gearboxes and bodywork.

Last edited by FMJ; 23 June 2015 at 02:40 PM.
Old 23 June 2015, 03:14 PM
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BrokenSpring
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Thank you for the reply, and thank you for sharing your experiance with the car.

Thats good to know on the alarm, it seems the thatcham takes a good chunk out of my insurance so will keep an eye out for a 99 onwards.
The £2500 is ideal but can stretch a bit by putting some on a card.

The idea of this car is to keep in for a while and restore bits as i go. So wanted a good solid base to start with and i know it will need some money. That was supposed to be the zr i have but being a 1.4 its not really something i can take to tracks for extra smiles

Found this guy and was almost in a position to buy but seems to have dropped off autotrader so probably sold
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Subar...item3aac4d943a

I don't know what it is about the classic but im just drawn to it out of all the impreza's. It has an understated style about it. I would consider the next one or 2 styles up but then the tax rockets through the roof and generally so do the prices. I figure this is my best bet for a low cost performance car for now.
Old 23 June 2015, 03:41 PM
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As long as your not looking for a low mile classic then you should find one for that price. As has been said rusty arches will be hard to find one without. But easy to get fixed. I've been quoted £150 a side.

I bought my classic over 5 years ago now and that had rust on arches then only had 74k on the clock. The key is garage them though the winter then they will last for years. If kept outside you will find the rust will catch up with you fast. These are old cars now, and are rusting from inside out.
Old 23 June 2015, 03:50 PM
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get yourself onto LADS - lancashire based subaru forum.

Brian from CAMS in Darwen usually has a few cars for sale.

Stevo
Old 23 June 2015, 04:27 PM
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BrokenSpring
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Originally Posted by jaygsi
As long as your not looking for a low mile classic then you should find one for that price. As has been said rusty arches will be hard to find one without. But easy to get fixed. I've been quoted £150 a side.

I bought my classic over 5 years ago now and that had rust on arches then only had 74k on the clock. The key is garage them though the winter then they will last for years. If kept outside you will find the rust will catch up with you fast. These are old cars now, and are rusting from inside out.
I have definately missed out on the low miles by a number of years so I'm not too fussed on the miles, would prefer under 100k but if its been fully maintained and not had too many owners would consider over.
Do not currently have a garage but hopefully will be moving to a house with one in the next year or 2.

Originally Posted by Scooby Stevo
get yourself onto LADS - lancashire based subaru forum.

Brian from CAMS in Darwen usually has a few cars for sale.

Stevo
Good stuff, will get registered on there and ask around, thank you for the tip.

With regards the rusty arches, if i got a slightly rusty one is it possible to perma fix..ie cut out all old rush weld new stuff in and rust proof the whole underside.... twice.
Old 23 June 2015, 04:41 PM
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Your not to late for low mile Impreza's. I've seen 4 in last few months, but most will cost around 4k and 3 were modified. But as you said you can get them for less with more miles. Other opition is to get an import, less likely to have rust and plenty of low mileage ones out there.
Old 23 June 2015, 05:56 PM
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alcazar
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I have a few questions to get started.
Did the 98 classics come with any kind of standard alarm system?
98 came with nowt...all the goodies were taken off by the rip-off Japs, before they sold us the car with a warm engine rather than their hot one, for £7000 more than the Japs paid.

99 may have got an alarm...it did get better front brakes and slightly nicer interior.


Are there any regular meets\drives in the NW?
Check the area forums, I don't do meets.


People who own a classic 98\99, what are the running costs like?
Ferkin horrendous...for a car which is now superceded in so many ways by hot hatches.
Old 23 June 2015, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jaygsi
As long as your not looking for a low mile classic then you should find one for that price. As has been said rusty arches will be hard to find one without. But easy to get fixed. I've been quoted £150 a side.
Not for an actual repair you wont! Not unless you have a professional bodywork friend who is doing to you a massive favor.

The cheap way to do it is to rub it down and then paint it. Even that would cost more then £150 in most bodyshops to blend in both sides. And the issue will be back in a few months. (Been there done that years ago).

If you look at the countless threads you will see that the outer rust is just the last stages showing through. To remove it properly you need to start cutting the inner arch out and welding or even completely remove the rear quarters and replace. We are taking £1000-£1500 and that's conservative!

So yes a bodge for a few quid but don't mislead people into thinking it can be fixed for £150.
Old 23 June 2015, 08:55 PM
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My body shop will cut the rust out and replace it with carbon fibre, then respray it for £150 a side.

As i said they rot inside out, so even if you replaced the whole rear quater the rust will not be removed. So please don't mislead people with your £1000-£1500 quote


Originally Posted by FMJ
Not for an actual repair you wont! Not unless you have a professional bodywork friend who is doing to you a massive favor.

The cheap way to do it is to rub it down and then paint it. Even that would cost more then £150 in most bodyshops to blend in both sides. And the issue will be back in a few months. (Been there done that years ago).

If you look at the countless threads you will see that the outer rust is just the last stages showing through. To remove it properly you need to start cutting the inner arch out and welding or even completely remove the rear quarters and replace. We are taking £1000-£1500 and that's conservative!

So yes a bodge for a few quid but don't mislead people into thinking it can be fixed for £150.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:07 PM
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plenty
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I don't know where you live, but in the SE you won't get both sides properly done for £300.

Round here £300 buys you a bumper respray and that's about it.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:13 PM
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jaygsi
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Wow i got a quote for £150 for my bumper i thought that was steep.

In the end paid £100 to have half the bumper sprayed, and they did an amazing job.

Originally Posted by plenty
I don't know where you live, but in the SE you won't get both sides properly done for £300.

Round here £300 buys you a bumper respray and that's about it.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:17 PM
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Ok... well that would be a very odd thing to do? Do you understand which seams and sections rust? You couldn't replace them with carbon fibre unless they are making you complete carbon panels inner and outer exactly replicating the factory ones? Then why would you stick a bit of carbon fibre to join two peices of steel? Are they then bonding them to the chassis after cutting all the old ones out and removing all rust.... then blending them with filler and painting them.... Good for £150!

Or do you mean they are going to cut out the small bubbled section and stuff some fiberglass in there and paint over it? If so that's a bodge. It will do nothing to fix the inner panels and seams that are rusty.

I didn't give a quote I just stated that we are talking over £1000 not £150 for a real repair. I do have a bit of experience with this.... Have you ever welded a rear quarter on an Impreza? I have...

Oh and you can get a quarter new and have it fitted and painted for £1000-£1500.... and if the inner isn't too bad they can patch it up with some welding while they do it... so it's in no way misleading.

Last edited by FMJ; 23 June 2015 at 09:20 PM.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:28 PM
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Hi,
If you need any help with insurance at all then please feel free to drop me a line.
Regards,
Dan.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:37 PM
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I have a UK Turbo 2000. Running costs can be high unless you look after the car and/or get a fully-serviced model. However, things can go wrong without a warning, partly due to the actual age of the car and parts on them. Also, considering your budget, a full-serviced example might be hard to come by.

As for rust, I'm in the South-East and was quoted £1'400 to have both rear arches done on my now-scrapped Imported WRX (98 classic) so if you find an arched-rusted car, that's a price you may have to pay.

Pristine examples are hard to come by, so you'll be looking towards a modified example considering it'll have had several owners in it's lifetime, especially with your budget.

Personally, if your desperate for a classic now, then start scouting around on every website you can think of. Otherwise, wait a while, get yourself around 4k and you'll be surprised at what will be available to you.
Old 23 June 2015, 09:37 PM
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I know the job is not a permanent solution, i've done many ache repairs in the past, best one i did was on an old Vauxhall. Rubbed the rust down till i hit the metal, rust proofed the surface then resprayed that lasted about 4 years before it started to bubble again.

He did not tell me exactly what he would be doing, but common sense says he will be removing the area of bubbling and replacing with carbon fibre, then respraying. I'm hoping this will last a good few years.





Originally Posted by FMJ
Ok... well that would be a very odd thing to do? Do you understand which seams and sections rust? You couldn't replace them with carbon fibre unless they are making you complete carbon panels inner and outer exactly replicating the factory ones? Then why would you stick a bit of carbon fibre to join two peices of steel? Are they then bonding them to the chassis after cutting all the old ones out and removing all rust.... then blending them with filler and painting them.... Good for £150!

Or do you mean they are going to cut out the small bubbled section and stuff some fiberglass in there and paint over it? If so that's a bodge. It will do nothing to fix the inner panels and seams that are rusty.

I didn't give a quote I just stated that we are talking over £1000 not £150 for a real repair. I do have a bit of experience with this.... Have you ever welded a rear quarter on an Impreza? I have...

Oh and you can get a quarter new and have it fitted and painted for £1000-£1500.... and if the inner isn't too bad they can patch it up with some welding while they do it... so it's in no way misleading.
Old 23 June 2015, 11:51 PM
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Wow I never expected this many replies.

So by the looks of it I should not be a cheap skate and get some more cash saved up, take my time and find a fully serviced one. That should get me a better and most rust free car. And if I do get a rusty one I'm looking at £1000+ to fix proper.
Hmmm....is it possible to buy replacement pannels that will not be rusty mares?

I guess when I go to see any cars I will pay extra attention to rust and make sure there is none. Im just looking under the car at the moment, Can you check for rust from other places like inside the boot? Are there any other area other than rear wheel arches to look at?

Thanks Dan on the insurance side, I will be giving you guys a call and hopefully you can get me a good deal.
Old 24 June 2015, 12:15 AM
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I have one of the low mileage 64k classics my00 left and even mine is going for the arches treatment at about a grand for a proper job
This year handbrake mechanism and rear fuel pile needed replaced £600
Wheels renovated £150 for a pair as I got two new ones
Dents removed £140
Service and can belt £500

I will never part with mine as spent more on colour bits for the engine bay then it's worth and I'm committed to another 5-6k over the next few years on replacing bits and bobs

Worth it ?
Yes but it's a show car for weekend use and not a daily driver
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Fuel costs 225 - 250 per tank 25 mpg
Old 24 June 2015, 09:07 AM
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BrokenSpring
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Originally Posted by lordharding
I have one of the low mileage 64k classics my00 left and even mine is going for the arches treatment at about a grand for a proper job
This year handbrake mechanism and rear fuel pile needed replaced £600
Wheels renovated £150 for a pair as I got two new ones
Dents removed £140
Service and can belt £500

I will never part with mine as spent more on colour bits for the engine bay then it's worth and I'm committed to another 5-6k over the next few years on replacing bits and bobs

Worth it ?
Yes but it's a show car for weekend use and not a daily driver



Fuel costs 225 - 250 per tank 25 mpg
Wow thats a nice clean scoob

Thanks for your input, its good to hear what i will be getting myself in for. I suppose i should double check every bit of the car before comitting to buying. Maybe a car already owned by an enthusiast would be the best shout as at least i know it will have been cared for.

The car wont quite be a daily as i work mon to fri and get the train. But weekends i do like to get out in the sun exploring the hills, living at the start of snake pass is brilliant .
Old 24 June 2015, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jaygsi
I know the job is not a permanent solution, i've done many ache repairs in the past, best one i did was on an old Vauxhall. Rubbed the rust down till i hit the metal, rust proofed the surface then resprayed that lasted about 4 years before it started to bubble again.

He did not tell me exactly what he would be doing, but common sense says he will be removing the area of bubbling and replacing with carbon fibre, then respraying. I'm hoping this will last a good few years.
For £300 you will get Back Street Bob and the Apprentice panel monkey, pay cheap and pay twice. The problem with the rear arches is always hidden, it's structural and integral to the suspension which makes it very important to the car and your own safety.

Welcome Broken Spring. Hopefully you will get a good one as it seems you listen to advice. The link below will show you what you could encounter unless you are careful but in the meantime, enjoy.

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-and-rust.html

Last edited by The Trooper 1815; 24 June 2015 at 09:37 AM.
Old 24 June 2015, 11:42 AM
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The silver one you posted a link to on eBay looks good (although in my eyes the drivers side rear door looks a different colour to the rest of the car) - BUT the dealer has a pretty bad reputation. If it is still available you need to go in to it with yours eyes open and get a proper inspection completed.
Old 24 June 2015, 11:55 AM
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I've seen this guy rebuild classic cars so he's not a back street garage. But he knows i don't want to rebuild the car. I could go and get myself a mint low milage freshly imported rust free STI for 5k, or a uk version for 4k so it would be pointless to spend thousands on a UK classic.

These things rust all over the place and not just the rear quaters, i've seen people on here spending thousands chasing rust around there Impreza's.

To complete get rid of all the rust on my Impreza will cost easy £3500+ and thats all the cars worth.


I know what your saying about structural and integral, but most classic Impreza's have the same problem, mines low miles and garged and only comes out at summer, so this should help with rust problems.


Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815
For £300 you will get Back Street Bob and the Apprentice panel monkey, pay cheap and pay twice. The problem with the rear arches is always hidden, it's structural and integral to the suspension which makes it very important to the car and your own safety.

Welcome Broken Spring. Hopefully you will get a good one as it seems you listen to advice. The link below will show you what you could encounter unless you are careful but in the meantime, enjoy.

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-and-rust.html
Old 24 June 2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jaygsi
My body shop will cut the rust out and replace it with carbon fibre, then respray it for £150 a side.


Is this genuine ?? I've never heard anything so daft

When I had the rear arches repaired on my last classic they did a proper job. Cut out all the rot and replaced it with new metal.
Cost me £450 for both sides.
Old 24 June 2015, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815
For £300 you will get Back Street Bob and the Apprentice panel monkey, pay cheap and pay twice. The problem with the rear arches is always hidden, it's structural and integral to the suspension which makes it very important to the car and your own safety.

Welcome Broken Spring. Hopefully you will get a good one as it seems you listen to advice. The link below will show you what you could encounter unless you are careful but in the meantime, enjoy.

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-and-rust.html
Hmm all this talk of bad rust is starting to make me think i will need to rename my savings account to "Rust Clinic" and make friends with some mechanics with welders.

This will be a long process to find the right one so will gather as much advice as i can from you guys. Might even meet some of you if your heading to the tatton classic car show.
Its a shame i missed the Northern Big one, i assume lots of you guys were there.

Once all the rust is tackled is there a way to seal all the metalwork so it dosent rust again or are we talking constant battle?

@lcs_turbo , Unfortunately it looks like the car has sold now. But there were a few bits thats stuck out for me. Rear bumper looked like its been fiberglassed and replaced but not sure, Internal engine metal moving bits that looked brown\rusty painted with black paint.
What do you mean by them having a bad rep? Do you speak from experiance or from other members?
Old 24 June 2015, 12:42 PM
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It's not from my own experience - just from what I have heard on here and other forums. A search of Cheshire Performance / Clives Performance / C Performance will tell you what to look out for.
Old 24 June 2015, 01:06 PM
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BrokenSpring
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Originally Posted by lcs_turbo
It's not from my own experience - just from what I have heard on here and other forums. A search of Cheshire Performance / Clives Performance / C Performance will tell you what to look out for.
Whoa holy moly did some searching like you said and seems like ive dodged potentially a rather large bullet and money pit there.

Thanks for the heads up. I should have joined these forums months ago, already learning lots here.
Old 24 June 2015, 01:28 PM
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To be honest i thought be would of done as you said, but considering hes been doing it before i was born, and has restored many cars. I will leave it to him to decide best option.

Originally Posted by MattyB1983


Is this genuine ?? I've never heard anything so daft

When I had the rear arches repaired on my last classic they did a proper job. Cut out all the rot and replaced it with new metal.
Cost me £450 for both sides.
Old 24 June 2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BrokenSpring
Hmm all this talk of bad rust is starting to make me think i will need to rename my savings account to "Rust Clinic" and make friends with some mechanics with welders.

This will be a long process to find the right one so will gather as much advice as i can from you guys. Might even meet some of you if your heading to the tatton classic car show.
Its a shame i missed the Northern Big one, i assume lots of you guys were there.

Once all the rust is tackled is there a way to seal all the metalwork so it dosent rust again or are we talking constant battle?

@lcs_turbo , Unfortunately it looks like the car has sold now. But there were a few bits thats stuck out for me. Rear bumper looked like its been fiberglassed and replaced but not sure, Internal engine metal moving bits that looked brown\rusty painted with black paint.
What do you mean by them having a bad rep? Do you speak from experiance or from other members?

Please do not be put off. My last Classic was cleaner and had less "orange worm" than my current JDM WRX Newage.

When you get to a potential purchase be bold and have a good look down the inside of the boot liners into the recesses and see what you can. Check behind mudflaps for a build up of crud and around the fuel filler neck from behind the OSR wheel up inside the wing.

And take a little fridge magnet in your pocket, it's ace at spotting filler.
Old 24 June 2015, 02:02 PM
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At the end of the day its all down to how your going to use the car and how long you think you will keep it?

If you want a daily driver, to have fun in and run into the ground or sell in a few years, then what your after is perfect.

If your after something to keep as a weekend car for years to come and want it looking in amazing shape or a garage queen hoping the price will go up in years to come then save your money and buy something like this link below.

Choice is yours bud.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Subaru-Imp...3D251998868448

Last edited by jaygsi; 24 June 2015 at 02:04 PM.
Old 24 June 2015, 02:10 PM
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BrokenSpring
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Originally Posted by The Trooper 1815
Please do not be put off. My last Classic was cleaner and had less "orange worm" than my current JDM WRX Newage.

When you get to a potential purchase be bold and have a good look down the inside of the boot liners into the recesses and see what you can. Check behind mudflaps for a build up of crud and around the fuel filler neck from behind the OSR wheel up inside the wing.

And take a little fridge magnet in your pocket, it's ace at spotting filler.
Ah no , not being put off. Always wanted a subaru or evo as a long tearm project to do up and have a few track days a year. This is just setting my expectetions at the right level, knowing that i will need to spend some money fighting rust will turn the "ah crap i need to spent loads more money on this car" reaction into "meh i knew this would happen, lets get this done"

Aswell as myself i might try bring someone with me to my potential buys to check over too.
Would anyone reccomend the RAC inspection check service they do. Seems like a good idea but £175 is pretty steep to find its not woth buying.

So i assume the magnet will not stick to repaired sections? very cool


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