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While having the car serviced this week, it was noted that the headers have a crack. I am running the RCM unequal's, they have covered around 7k miles and are 3 years old. I very rarely ever enable ALS and don't have any 'pops and bangs' mapped in.
My mechanic said it should be simple to have them welded and we've booked the car back in to get it fixed next month, in the meantime he'll work out a quote.
So my question is, is it worth repairing these or would I be better off replacing them? It seems like the going rate for headers is about £600, so not exactly cheap; but is repairing the existing ones a false economy?
Personally i would go the repair route, the welder might be able to beef up that particular area that has failed . Ive just fitted a set of RCM headers as well, i wont be buying a new set every 7k
They all crack at some point, but if they are repairable then it's worth doing, fork out for new ones when they become unrepairable. The only ones that seem to stand up well are the Killer B headers as they are made from more crack resistant steel, but they are much more expensive so a decision would need to be made as to whether they would be economically viable in the future if you keep going through headers. ceramic coating, rather than heat wrapping, can help to prolong them as they don't suffer moisture ingress that can happen with heat wrap, but they can still crack even with ceramic coating. Just a nature of the expansion and contraction cycles of steel.
they are available at better costs if needs be.............
Thanks Alyn and noted. The ones I have now came from you originally.
I'd be interested to know what price you could do on the killer B's.
It looks like that only do equal length though....
As mentioned before get them repaired rather than replacing. I'm surprised Alyn and the guys at AS Performance haven't made their own version. Definitely a market for them.
i had a similar issue , not sure of the make as already fitted , i tried getting mine repaired but it kept blowing through , it looked alright but had become very thin , i put some jap speed ones on in the end which as far as i know were ok , sold the car in the end , so yes try welding but may get issue
i agree with the custom made idea , my local exhaust place has always done a very good job of making systems up , i’m sure somewhere local to you could do the same
I think if I were looking at headers now, I'd actually look at something that has high quality bellows type expansion joints on them (the type that is inside the OEM up-pipe).
Imo the RCM and similar headers crack because there's not enough movement allowed when they heat up. The little slip joints they put on probably become sticky after a while or seize up completely with carbon deposits etc, which then means the metal has nowhere to expand to so ends up cracking.
I've had two sets of RCM/lateral sets myself, neither of which cracked, but I'm glad that I don't have them anymore
Rcm & the rest of those **** material SSi headers all crack eventually. They all come out a factory in Taiwan
Would need to be crazy to pay the extra RCM tax when exact same ones can be bought from Ali Baba for about 200 quid.
Can tell from the branding on the flanges
Get a custom set made from a decent grade of stainless that can handle the temps.
The last even less time if wrapped due to the 304 just not being great.
Look at the max rated temp for 304 Stainless then look at your max EGT.
They do come from taiwan and im not disagreeing with you but every component is built to a specification by the designers, if that specification is not met by manufacturers then you get the problem, i can tell you that Taiwan build some of the best bicycles in the world in any material, 4130 chromoly is my favourite.
Last edited by lockheed; 26 December 2020 at 07:45 PM.
They do come from tiawan and im not disagreeing with you but every component is built to a specification by the designers, if that specification is not met by manufacturers then you get the problem, i can tell you that Tiawan build some the best bicycles in the world in any material, 4130 chromoly is my favourite.
GT Spec/SSI/RCM headers usually crack at the flanges and will all tend to suffer these cracks eventually. KillerB headers remain the number one choice both for performance and durability for those who are willing to pay the price, followed by Full Race Headers with a very similar price point. Perrin's Equal Length headers with their extra thick flanges and proven equal length design deliver where they need to, and they go one step further by having two different diameters depending on your power targets, not just over sized tubes that look impressive. The fact they offer a 5 year warranty is testimony to the quality and design you are paying for.
Headers should never be wrapped and it's why you will lose any warranty if you do. Even ceramic coated headers can benefit from addition protection in the form of Nimbus heat shielding as seen on these KillerB headers. KillerB header wrapped in Nimbus Heat Shield
That's always one of the things that put me off the SSI GT spec headers - a large pipe diameter that isn't really needed till you go 500bhp+ and why they were originally developed afaik, when you then throw in a FMIC that's a lot of pipe volume you need to fill and why you get a loss of spool. I was told stick with stock ported headers and a quality up-pipe for up to around 380-400bhp, KillerB or correctly spec'd Perrin EL headers above that with a good up-pipe (KillerB, Perrin, Harvey Trick from ASP).
Perrin Small Bore Up-Pipe wrapped in Nimbus that was used on these stock ported headers up to 400bhp with no real issues beyond a little choking at the top end.
Last edited by STI450; 31 December 2020 at 10:15 AM.
SSI/RCM headers usually crack at the flanges and will all tend to suffer these cracks eventually. KillerB headers remain the number one choice both for performance and durability for those who are willing to pay the price, followed by Full Race Headers with a very similar price point. Perrin's Equal Length headers with their extra thick flanges and proven equal length design deliver where they need to, and they go one step further by having two different diameters depending on your power targets, not just over sized tubes that look impressive. The fact they offer a 5 year warranty is testimony to the quality and design you are paying for.
Headers should never be wrapped and it's why you will lose any warranty if you do. Even ceramic coated headers can benefit from addition protection in the forum of Nimbus heat shielding as seen on this KillerB headers. KillerB header wrapped in Nimbus Heat Shield
That's always one of the things that put me off the SSI GT spec headers large pipe diameter that isn't really needed till you go 500bhp+ and why they were originally developed, when you throw in a FMIC that's a lot of pipe volume you need to fill and why you get a loss of spool. I was told stick with stock ported headers and a quality up-pipe for up to around 380-400bhp, KillerB or correctly spec'd Perrin EL headers above that with a good up-pipe (KillerB, Perrin, Harvey Trick from ASP).
Perrin Small Bore Up-Pipe wrapped in Nimbus that was used on these stock ported headers up to 400bhp with no real issues beyond a little choking at the top end.
Are the killer bee the only 321 stainless header thats on the market ? What is the full race
Personally I'd be asking rcm for and as to why
7k and 3 years for a part thats expensive and engineered to be the best of aftermarket.
makes oem manifolds and cheap variants worthwhile if its a common problem.
I was surprised to be honest. I spoke with the place that they were purchased from and was told there is no warranty on these due to some people running anti lag..
Hearing the comments in this thread, I definitely wouldn't purchase them again!
Originally Posted by STI450
SSI/RCM headers usually crack at the flanges and will all tend to suffer these cracks eventually. KillerB headers remain the number one choice both for performance and durability for those who are willing to pay the price, followed by Full Race Headers with a very similar price point. Perrin's Equal Length headers with their extra thick flanges and proven equal length design deliver where they need to, and they go one step further by having two different diameters depending on your power targets, not just over sized tubes that look impressive. The fact they offer a 5 year warranty is testimony to the quality and design you are paying for.
Headers should never be wrapped and it's why you will lose any warranty if you do. Even ceramic coated headers can benefit from addition protection in the forum of Nimbus heat shielding as seen on this KillerB headers.
That's always one of the things that put me off the SSI GT spec headers large pipe diameter that isn't really needed till you go 500bhp+ and why they were originally developed, when you throw in a FMIC that's a lot of pipe volume you need to fill and why you get a loss of spool. I was told stick with stock ported headers and a quality up-pipe for up to around 380-400bhp, KillerB or correctly spec'd Perrin EL headers above that with a good up-pipe (KillerB, Perrin, Harvey Trick from ASP).
Perrin Small Bore Up-Pipe wrapped in Nimbus that was used on these stock ported headers up to 400bhp with no real issues beyond a little choking at the top end.
Thanks STI450. An interesting read. I'm running a single scroll set up with Harvey Smith up pipe and make 460bhp. As much as I would love to go with a set of KillerB's, it's not really something I'm planning on splashing out on right now as it would also require mapping too.
I don't want to replace these like for like though as I can see the same thing happening in a couple of years.
I'll try getting them welded for now and then make a decision about what to go for later on...
I was surprised to be honest. I spoke with the place that they were purchased from and was told there is no warranty on these due to some people running anti lag..
Hearing the comments in this thread, I definitely wouldn't purchase them again!
I'd be looking into your consumer rights. Any warranty given is in addition to your consumer rights that state any item sold must be fit for purpose. I'm not sure many would argue 7000 miles is dismal for a set of headers.
I'd be looking into your consumer rights. Any warranty given is in addition to your consumer rights that state any item sold must be fit for purpose. I'm not sure many would argue 7000 miles is dismal for a set of headers.
I get where you're coming from but I don't think it'll do much good. They will just say they are designed for a standard car and road use. As soon as you make any other modifications or take it on track, the warranty is void.
7000 miles on this car is not a lot, especially as it's 99% sensible road use. Then again, 7k miles on a rally/track/sprint car would be very good. I can't prove how the car has been used so I don't have an argument.
I'd be looking into your consumer rights. Any warranty given is in addition to your consumer rights that state any item sold must be fit for purpose. I'm not sure many would argue 7000 miles is dismal for a set of headers.
How you gona prove you havn't been running some serious anti-lag for that 7k miles tho ?
Most performance parts are warrantied till right after you 1st start the car lolol
How you gona prove you havn't been running some serious anti-lag for that 7k miles tho ?
Most performance parts are warrantied till right after you 1st start the car lolol
Like I said, warranties are in addition to your consumer rights and you cannot take away those rights. A lot of companies rely on people not knowing their rights to fob them off. It's been a while since I looked at them myself but IIRC it's up to the supplier to prove the item was misused for the first 6 months. Useless in this case but still worth noting.
It's fairly common for bike companies to try the same BS. I've even fallen foul of it myself when I was younger hence why I tried to learn some of my rights a little better.
But yes, sadly it can mean you have to put in some work to get an outcome in your favour so I know that'll put a lot of people off doing anything about it (and the companies know this too and rely on that fact).
Like I said, warranties are in addition to your consumer rights and you cannot take away those rights. A lot of companies rely on people not knowing their rights to fob them off. It's been a while since I looked at them myself but IIRC it's up to the supplier to prove the item was misused for the first 6 months. Useless in this case but still worth noting.
It's fairly common for bike companies to try the same BS. I've even fallen foul of it myself when I was younger hence why I tried to learn some of my rights a little better.
But yes, sadly it can mean you have to put in some work to get an outcome in your favour so I know that'll put a lot of people off doing anything about it (and the companies know this too and rely on that fact).
I love your attitude and would love see Olley get in the nuts as he is tight fisted old miser.
Unfortunately i have the same headers as as Adam and have been running als for 50k..... Not perminately granted. Could a dodgy batch of which i direct you back to my first post in this thread.
Post 14
Last edited by lockheed; 31 December 2020 at 05:52 PM.
Like I said, warranties are in addition to your consumer rights and you cannot take away those rights. A lot of companies rely on people not knowing their rights to fob them off. It's been a while since I looked at them myself but IIRC it's up to the supplier to prove the item was misused for the first 6 months. Useless in this case but still worth noting.
It's fairly common for bike companies to try the same BS. I've even fallen foul of it myself when I was younger hence why I tried to learn some of my rights a little better.
But yes, sadly it can mean you have to put in some work to get an outcome in your favour so I know that'll put a lot of people off doing anything about it (and the companies know this too and rely on that fact).
It is probobly sold as an ornament not to be fitted to a car.
Cost you alot more than a cheap set of headers to actually do anything about it.
They would just blame your tuner for send EGT's through the roof even if it had nothing to do with it.
As stated above too drag cars can need a full rebuild after only a few quarter mile runs if what you say is true then why would they not play that card and save a fortune ?
As stated above too drag cars can need a full rebuild after only a few quarter mile runs if what you say is true then why would they not play that card and save a fortune ?
Because those parts would be considered fit for purpose...
Can be the same parts used in a normal daily driven car & somebodys drag car.
So how can they tell you cracked manifold was abused or not ?
Same applies to a built engine ?
Most sold with a start up warranty. Beyond that your on your own
I'm really not missing the point. The parts must be fit for purpose. So a DD and drag car are two separate purposes that each have different wear levels on parts.
It's easy enough for companies to prove these things if they want. They can send any parts off for inspection by an expert and their findings can be presented in the court case that will be needed for you to get your money back or not. If the part truly was abused and the claimant was trying to abuse the system then the company could claim those costs back.
Again, warranties are completely separate to your consumer rights so it doesn't really matter what the warranty terms are. Companies cannot override your basic consumer protections. This is what is meant when things state your statutory rights are not affected.
23 December 2020, 02:58 PM
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