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Hopefully I can get some clarification because I've seen a lot of conflicting information online. Please post any sources you have to back up your claims
I need to tow my WRX a decent distance with a tow bar. The plan is to have all four wheels on the ground, gearbox in neutral and engine running for power brakes and steering. No mechanical faults with the car, just an MOT failure from rust.
Is there any chance this could damage my gearbox / diff / whatever? If yes, how can it be avoided (without finding a flatbed...).
if all 4 wheels on the ground you wont have an issue, not sure why you think you will as thats how the car has been driven all its life.
That was my thought, I can understand an issue with towing two wheels so possibly that caused confusion that I found on forums.
Originally Posted by Don Clark
As per every Subaru Owners manual you are advised not to run the engine.
Interesting thank you. I wonder why that is the case, I would have assumed the clutch would keep the transmission safe, I would have guessed issues with overheating maybe. Either way, happy to listen to the manual. Cheers!
The OP states car failed MOT just on "Rust" , I don't think that plod will have any issue with you towing a car with good brakes and steering But he is certain to if you cannot do either because your engine is off.
We shall assume first that the OP has a manual gearbox as the Thread title says this, and that no transmission failure of any kind has occurred.
In Queens English we understand transmission failure to be a broken differential / drive shaft / propshaft and so on. I think confusion arises because 9-21 shows also a separated paragraph under the "Caution" that can be misunderstood in American English.
In American "manual transmission" is something trucks have , so for cars this term is always shortened to "Transmission" as very few "stick shifts" are on the market..
Consequently when a translation of a Japanese car manual is carried out , Japanese translators are likely to choose an American meaning over and above an English one.
To be 100% sure of what was intended on page 9-21 you would need to read Japanese.
Personally driving in a manual car I cant see any difference in rolling down a hill out of gear , than being towed up one out of gear.
And unless you want to be one of these I would certainly leave the engine on going downhill , otherwise you can't brake or steer round the bends
Its only illegal to put a car on the road without an MOT , its not illegal to return one from a Test station when its failed an MOT.
More important is does the Test station say it must not be driven away, If that remark is on the Test fail then it can only return on a loader.
Last edited by Linksfahrer; 16 January 2021 at 02:12 PM.
Reason: mot
If your thinking of towing as it had no mot, it's still illegal to tow with car rope. Needs to be on a transporter I believe.
Thanks for the heads up. I've had a look online and haven't found anything that says that on a .gov.uk website, only on other forums from users, and again there are conflicting opinions.
Originally Posted by Linksfahrer
The OP states car failed MOT just on "Rust" , I don't think that plod will have any issue with you towing a car with good brakes and steering But he is certain to if you cannot do either because your engine is off.
We shall assume first that the OP has a manual gearbox as the Thread title says this, and that no transmission failure of any kind has occurred.
In Queens English we understand transmission failure to be a broken differential / drive shaft / propshaft and so on. I think confusion arises because 9-21 shows also a separated paragraph under the "Caution" that can be misunderstood in American English.
In American "manual transmission" is something trucks have , so for cars this term is always shortened to "Transmission" as very few "stick shifts" are on the market..
Consequently when a translation of a Japanese car manual is carried out , Japanese translators are likely to choose an American meaning over and above an English one.
To be 100% sure of what was intended on page 9-21 you would need to read Japanese.
Personally driving in a manual car I cant see any difference in rolling down a hill out of gear , than being towed up one out of gear.
And unless you want to be one of these I would certainly leave the engine on going downhill , otherwise you can't brake or steer round the bends
Its only illegal to put a car on the road without an MOT , its not illegal to return one from a Test station when its failed an MOT.
More important is does the Test station say it must not be driven away, If that remark is on the Test fail then it can only return on a loader.
Yep just rust, annoyingly the only 'dangerous' failure is for rust near the rear anti roll bar mount. My other car doesn't even have a rear ARB from factory!
Good point about translations. The manual I believe is a NA one, I had a look for a UK market version but couldn't find one.
I did ask the test centre if I could drive it away (at the time I asked to see the rust) and they said I could drive it home, although this is to get it to a body shop to be fixed rather than getting it home.
"If your car fails its MOT, then you can only take your vehicle away if your current MOT certificate is still valid and no 'dangerous' problems were listed in the new report from the failed MOT. Otherwise, you must get it repaired before you're allowed to drive. If you decide to take it to another garage to have the failed defects addressed then your car will still need to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined."
What this minimum standards of roadworthiness means is , if for example you have a minor fail , like a light bulb gone, then you can still drive to another garage or MOT station (during the day in good conditions )
but not at night or in fog. The "minimum standard" pre-requisite for a movement in the dark or such conditions would be functioning lights.
The same would apply to driving with defective wipers in heavy rain, driving knowingly in such conditions with a major or even minor defect that is likely to put others at risk
is considered just as illegal as driving a car without a valid MOT.
In addition if you were to cause an accident in such circumstances then your insurance would not cover you.
Last edited by Linksfahrer; 16 January 2021 at 04:46 PM.
If you are behind a steering wheel and moving it plus you have control of the brakes etc the law says you are driving it engine on or off , take advice from the mot tester , if the garage is any good get it welded there and then they can then pass it , or get a welder to go to that garage if they don’t mind , and it can be done in situ , if it’s deemed by the garage to be in a dangerous condition and you drive it away and a lovely but not very sympathetic traffic officer or the normal boys in blue stop you , you could easily see 6 points or more plus a fine of 125 per cent of your weekly salary , low loaders as long as it’s not that far is often not that much 👍
Just flat bed /trailer it. Not because of the drivetrain. But unless you are using a straight bar and the front tow eye is rock solid (you said it failed on rust), tow ropes for long distances is a bad idea from a general safety point of view (and yes I did that myself once...and never again; there is zero reaction time to what goes on ahead, learnt that the hard way, but it was a Land Rover towing another Land Rover, so the only damage is a bent metal bumper...scoobs will crumple bonnets and wreck cam belt pulleys at the slightest front end tap even at slow speeds (I can show you what happens to the front end of a scoob in a 20mph shunt if you want). Then plod show up and argue of what's legal or not, it's just not worth the risk or agro.
Anyway for the record: Can't see how the viscous diffs (centre or rear) will be affected by a running engine and towing. All that is spinning in neutral is the input shaft. The output shaft will spin with the road wheels and the lay shaft will just freewheel with no direct connection between the two; The only components affected by different speeds of the input and output shafts are the synchros/baulk ring etc.. but they need pressure applied on the gear selector to be put under any stress.
"If your car fails its MOT, then you can only take your vehicle away if your current MOT certificate is still valid and no 'dangerous' problems were listed in the new report from the failed MOT. Otherwise, you must get it repaired before you're allowed to drive. If you decide to take it to another garage to have the failed defects addressed then your car will still need to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined."
What this minimum standards of roadworthiness means is , if for example you have a minor fail , like a light bulb gone, then you can still drive to another garage or MOT station (during the day in good conditions )
but not at night or in fog. The "minimum standard" pre-requisite for a movement in the dark or such conditions would be functioning lights.
The same would apply to driving with defective wipers in heavy rain, driving knowingly in such conditions with a major or even minor defect that is likely to put others at risk
is considered just as illegal as driving a car without a valid MOT.
In addition if you were to cause an accident in such circumstances then your insurance would not cover you.
Originally Posted by Vxr2010
If you are behind a steering wheel and moving it plus you have control of the brakes etc the law says you are driving it engine on or off , take advice from the mot tester , if the garage is any good get it welded there and then they can then pass it , or get a welder to go to that garage if they don’t mind , and it can be done in situ , if it’s deemed by the garage to be in a dangerous condition and you drive it away and a lovely but not very sympathetic traffic officer or the normal boys in blue stop you , you could easily see 6 points or more plus a fine of 125 per cent of your weekly salary , low loaders as long as it’s not that far is often not that much 👍
Could you two please provide a source for what counts as "driving it"? I haven't been able to find anything official which states either way. I just don't want this thread turning into another one only full of anecdotal evidence, would much rather facts from a gov.uk website or equivalent.
Edit: Realised my reply might cause confusion with your linked 'minimum standards of roadworthiness'. I'm struggling to find anything which explicitly states towing a vehicle counts as towing a trailer, or driving the car normally as if there was no tow car, or something completely different.
Last edited by XDGFX; 17 January 2021 at 11:25 PM.
Reason: clarification
Flat bed tow trucks don't cost that much, get a quote on shipley.
Thanks for the heads up. I hadn't heard of Shipley, I've sent out a request for some quotes.
Originally Posted by ALi-B
Just flat bed /trailer it. Not because of the drivetrain. But unless you are using a straight bar and the front tow eye is rock solid (you said it failed on rust), tow ropes for long distances is a bad idea from a general safety point of view (and yes I did that myself once...and never again; there is zero reaction time to what goes on ahead, learnt that the hard way, but it was a Land Rover towing another Land Rover, so the only damage is a bent metal bumper...scoobs will crumple bonnets and wreck cam belt pulleys at the slightest front end tap even at slow speeds (I can show you what happens to the front end of a scoob in a 20mph shunt if you want). Then plod show up and argue of what's legal or not, it's just not worth the risk or agro.
Anyway for the record: Can't see how the viscous diffs (centre or rear) will be affected by a running engine and towing. All that is spinning in neutral is the input shaft. The output shaft will spin with the road wheels and the lay shaft will just freewheel with no direct connection between the two; The only components affected by different speeds of the input and output shafts are the synchros/baulk ring etc.. but they need pressure applied on the gear selector to be put under any stress.
I do have a straight bar, and the rust is all centred on the underside. I had the bumper off a few months ago and there was no problem with the towing eye mount. I agree that towing with a rope sounds like a nightmare. Thanks for the info on the transmission. Most of my understanding is based around the engine, much less on the transmission and chassis side. Pressure applied on the gear selector meaning moving the gear stick? Or depressing the clutch pedal?
Would be hilarous if driving tests included theory, practice in safe towing, You could add reversing of trailers doing both at Council waste Tips.
Although lesson Insurance would go up as most would be rubbish :-) :-)
Would be hilarous if driving tests included theory, practice in safe towing, You could add reversing of trailers doing both at Council waste Tips.
Although lesson Insurance would go up as most would be rubbish :-) :-)
15 January 2021, 12:45 AM
Towing a manual WRX
I would certainly leave the engine on going downhill , otherwise you can't brake or steer round the bends
