Focus RS vs WRX
20 June 2002, 05:53 PM
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Hi All,
I am on the verge of putting my money down on a car but not sure which one !
For ages I have wanted an Impreza but the impending launch of the Focus RS is swaying me to the other side.
What do people on here think ?
The key reasons for preffering the RS are :
1) Newer and hence more exclusive - at least for the firsy year or so
2) Potentially lower running costs e.g. service etc.
3) Better dealer coverage for servicing etc.
4) Better Paint i.e. stone chips
5) Hopefully easier to sell later
Look forward to hearing your opinions
Scooby Spy
I am on the verge of putting my money down on a car but not sure which one !
For ages I have wanted an Impreza but the impending launch of the Focus RS is swaying me to the other side.
What do people on here think ?
The key reasons for preffering the RS are :
1) Newer and hence more exclusive - at least for the firsy year or so
2) Potentially lower running costs e.g. service etc.
3) Better dealer coverage for servicing etc.
4) Better Paint i.e. stone chips
5) Hopefully easier to sell later
Look forward to hearing your opinions
Scooby Spy
20 June 2002, 05:58 PM
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Do you want the security and grip in all weathers of four wheel drive ?
Do you want to go fast or really fast ?
If you buy a Subaru at a sensible price (not list!) will the resale be that much different ?
Do you want to go fast or really fast ?
If you buy a Subaru at a sensible price (not list!) will the resale be that much different ?
20 June 2002, 06:13 PM
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When you say you're on the verge remember that Ford isn't! The FRS has been delayed so many times. Rumour has due to melting pistons!!! SO any of the 1st of the line will not nesseccarily be free of problems. Buy the Scooby for now and then wait to see what everyone (Press/Owners) think of it.
Richard
2p
Richard
2p
20 June 2002, 06:38 PM
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I was deciding what new car to buy back in January (ready for a purchase in June - my wedding in April forcing me to plan early 
)
The Focus RS was in the "impending launch" stage then too - you might as well have a Scoob for three years by the the Focus RS might just be out
In the end, I went for an Octavia RS, and I'm picking it up on Monday
)The Focus RS was in the "impending launch" stage then too - you might as well have a Scoob for three years by the the Focus RS might just be out
In the end, I went for an Octavia RS, and I'm picking it up on Monday
20 June 2002, 08:02 PM
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What is going of with the Focus Cosworth . I thought that manufactures of rally cars (wrc) must bring a road going version out with in 2-years of it Rallying.
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Hyaundi
Have all had 2-3 cars since the focus was released.
**************************WHY********************* ********
They cant keep up.
They will never be able to keep up with the japs
Mitsubishi
Subaru
Hyaundi
Have all had 2-3 cars since the focus was released.
**************************WHY********************* ********
They cant keep up.
They will never be able to keep up with the japs
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20 June 2002, 08:14 PM
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October is the current launch date for the Focus RS so until this time it will not be possible to test drive them back to back anyway. So if Ford do finally release it you should be able to a back to back test with the MY03 Impreza 
and the Focus RS.
Though when a Ford dealer is finally able to get you one will be another thing depending upon the waiting list that could have built up.
If new and exclusive is what you are after then have you considered an Audi A4 Cabriolet, guaranteed good resale as well.
Running costs, well nobody really knows, and it is unlikely that Ford will give the full picture. Front tyre wear should be interesting though, servicing could work out cheaper though.
Better dealer coverage, yes for your run of the mill Ford, but how many dealers will be able to look after the car properly bearing in mind its low volume. I'm sure a few Ford dealers will be interested in seeing what these can do when they get a chance too. Hopefully Subaru dealers have got bored of this as the Impreza has been around for a while.
Better paint, not going to argue here, what ever you do I think the paint will better, it was on my previous Escort (non Cossie).
Easy to sell on maybe (most probably though), depends how long you have it for, what modifications are done to it, and the overall condition of the car when you do come to sell it.
But the most important reasons for buying the car, which have been missed off the list are:
1) How it drives
2) Can I find a driving position that I find comfortable
3) How big is the smile on my face at the end of the test drive, or
You won't find out till October but both will be bloody good cars.
Nigel
and the Focus RS.Though when a Ford dealer is finally able to get you one will be another thing depending upon the waiting list that could have built up.
If new and exclusive is what you are after then have you considered an Audi A4 Cabriolet, guaranteed good resale as well.
Running costs, well nobody really knows, and it is unlikely that Ford will give the full picture. Front tyre wear should be interesting though, servicing could work out cheaper though.
Better dealer coverage, yes for your run of the mill Ford, but how many dealers will be able to look after the car properly bearing in mind its low volume. I'm sure a few Ford dealers will be interested in seeing what these can do when they get a chance too. Hopefully Subaru dealers have got bored of this as the Impreza has been around for a while.
Better paint, not going to argue here, what ever you do I think the paint will better, it was on my previous Escort (non Cossie).
Easy to sell on maybe (most probably though), depends how long you have it for, what modifications are done to it, and the overall condition of the car when you do come to sell it.
But the most important reasons for buying the car, which have been missed off the list are:
1) How it drives
2) Can I find a driving position that I find comfortable
3) How big is the smile on my face at the end of the test drive,
or You won't find out till October but both will be bloody good cars.
Nigel
20 June 2002, 08:16 PM
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I think the bring out a car in two years applied to the old Group A cars, WRC's don't have to do this.
The idea was to get more manufacturers interested without them having to go through the costly development of a road going version of the car.
Nigel
The idea was to get more manufacturers interested without them having to go through the costly development of a road going version of the car.
Nigel
20 June 2002, 08:17 PM
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scooby spy
i have been seriously considering one of these for my wife,i cannot find a dealer in my area that will take money as a deposit from me for one. im sure that when it does come out it will be stunning along with the focus cossie, no scoob will even come close to that one, although if the st170 is anything to go by its bad news. if i was you i would wait (if you can),and dont listen to the IT WONT KEEP UP ROUND THE TWISTs/FORD CRAP usual cos it will be one blinding car,just look at the other rs's,in their day they were tops
mike
my01 wrx
www.fasterfords.com check this out for detailed info and scanned images of the brochure
[Edited by mbc - 6/20/2002 8:20:13 PM]
i have been seriously considering one of these for my wife,i cannot find a dealer in my area that will take money as a deposit from me for one. im sure that when it does come out it will be stunning along with the focus cossie, no scoob will even come close to that one, although if the st170 is anything to go by its bad news. if i was you i would wait (if you can),and dont listen to the IT WONT KEEP UP ROUND THE TWISTs/FORD CRAP usual cos it will be one blinding car,just look at the other rs's,in their day they were tops
mike
my01 wrx
www.fasterfords.com check this out for detailed info and scanned images of the brochure
[Edited by mbc - 6/20/2002 8:20:13 PM]
20 June 2002, 08:45 PM
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Autocar recon it will be fantastic after driving a prototype with Fransois Delacour (spell).
However, when it was first mooted and exhibited at the 2000 Motorshow, the asking price was £23000. You can get an import WRX and do a lot of mods for that!
That's what I did and I'm glad I did as the wait would have killed me!
Steve
However, when it was first mooted and exhibited at the 2000 Motorshow, the asking price was £23000. You can get an import WRX and do a lot of mods for that!
That's what I did and I'm glad I did as the wait would have killed me!
Steve
20 June 2002, 09:17 PM
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The statement about whether you want "fast or really fast" is misleading. The WRX's 4x4 traction may help it eek out a marginally better 0-60 time but 0-100 and on mid range increments I reckon the RS will **** all over the current WRX, as will the Leon Cupra R when thats out (and both SEAT and Ford will look miles better than the WRX IMO)
The reason - 2WD obviously has less transmission losses, and less weight. When you take wet weather into account then the WRX could be back in front.
I'd pick the RS over a WRX, but an STi over either if that makes sense. Now flame me.
The reason - 2WD obviously has less transmission losses, and less weight. When you take wet weather into account then the WRX could be back in front.
I'd pick the RS over a WRX, but an STi over either if that makes sense. Now flame me.
20 June 2002, 09:52 PM
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Speaking as a Ford man for many a year Fiestas - Supersoprt, XR2 Mk II, RSTurbo, then Saph Cosworth, I was really set on a Focus RS, but in the end just lost patience waiting. I now have an STi7 and am happy - Ford have perhaps lost not only a sale, but perhaps a loyal customer too. The RS is not likely to be as 'full' a car as the STi is, and when (if) the 4x4 Cosworth appears I will re-evaluate the situation.
One strange thing though is that in 'defecting' from RS, the thing I was most worried about was losing the comfort and support of the RSOC and the generally well supported RS community. However this forum is so flippin good that my worries were totally unfounded!
That's not to say that the RS won't be a good car though!
Scott
One strange thing though is that in 'defecting' from RS, the thing I was most worried about was losing the comfort and support of the RSOC and the generally well supported RS community. However this forum is so flippin good that my worries were totally unfounded!
That's not to say that the RS won't be a good car though!
Scott
20 June 2002, 11:13 PM
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Hi,
I can't believe you guys are even debating this one. Yes, it will have a better paint job and yes, there probably are better dealers out there, but didn't people talk about the Honda Civic Type R performance in the same way?
Autoxpress/Evo described the 'WRX-slaying Type R' - right up until it was released. Then it became another warm-hatch (Golf GTi-T) contender.
Scooby_Spy, just go and get that STi7 !!!
I can't believe you guys are even debating this one. Yes, it will have a better paint job and yes, there probably are better dealers out there, but didn't people talk about the Honda Civic Type R performance in the same way?
Autoxpress/Evo described the 'WRX-slaying Type R' - right up until it was released. Then it became another warm-hatch (Golf GTi-T) contender.
Scooby_Spy, just go and get that STi7 !!!
21 June 2002, 09:56 AM
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You lot give Fords a hard time.
Scoobs are just as unrealiable FFS.
I work on both cars all the time, and to be honest the quality of the original cars,( IE the escort Cossie) FORD are much better, scoobs feel cheap by comparision. Before you start on me too, i don't own either just from working on them both.
1 point. 26 Year old RS2000 still whoops all of yer
Problems with Torque Steer I think, and having a Proper Diff as standard is some what of an issue for Rep's who can't drive.
[Edited by dingy - 6/21/2002 9:59:18 AM]
Scoobs are just as unrealiable FFS.
I work on both cars all the time, and to be honest the quality of the original cars,( IE the escort Cossie) FORD are much better, scoobs feel cheap by comparision. Before you start on me too, i don't own either just from working on them both.
1 point. 26 Year old RS2000 still whoops all of yer
Problems with Torque Steer I think, and having a Proper Diff as standard is some what of an issue for Rep's who can't drive.
[Edited by dingy - 6/21/2002 9:59:18 AM]
21 June 2002, 10:20 AM
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Dear All,
Thaks for your opinions.
According to my sources - which are extremely reliable having previosuly worked for Ford, I am told that it goes into production in Mid-July.
The pre-prod cars have already been built.
First cars should be delivered in August.
If I place a deposit now with my local delear (former RS in the heyday) who is accepting deposits, I can expect a car in October.
In terms of performance et al, I don't believe Ford will launch a duff product. Especially if you look at the Focus and ST170 - they are both well rated so I would expect more fom the RS. In particular, Ford holds their RS marque in high esteem and wouldn't want to damage it.
As regards some of the dates mentioned i.e. 2005, that is the planned date for the Cosworth.
The way I see it, is that the RS is a competitor to the WRX, at a launch price of approx. £21K, and the Coswortha competitor with the STi at approx. £30K.
Those of you that remember the old RS Turbo, RS 1600i, Cosworth etc. they were all highly desireable and held their value.
Scooby Spy
Thaks for your opinions.
According to my sources - which are extremely reliable having previosuly worked for Ford, I am told that it goes into production in Mid-July.
The pre-prod cars have already been built.
First cars should be delivered in August.
If I place a deposit now with my local delear (former RS in the heyday) who is accepting deposits, I can expect a car in October.
In terms of performance et al, I don't believe Ford will launch a duff product. Especially if you look at the Focus and ST170 - they are both well rated so I would expect more fom the RS. In particular, Ford holds their RS marque in high esteem and wouldn't want to damage it.
As regards some of the dates mentioned i.e. 2005, that is the planned date for the Cosworth.
The way I see it, is that the RS is a competitor to the WRX, at a launch price of approx. £21K, and the Coswortha competitor with the STi at approx. £30K.
Those of you that remember the old RS Turbo, RS 1600i, Cosworth etc. they were all highly desireable and held their value.
Scooby Spy
21 June 2002, 10:59 AM
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Why is everyone ford bashing?
what is all this crap about?
The focus and mondeo have been consistently the best selling cars in their classes since their release. You dont get a reputation like that in this day and age without being seriously good.
Hands up here who has driven a focus? because behind the wheel even the bottom of the range is seriously grippy and entertaining to drive.
Ford cannot stand to have the poor reliability and build quality of a low volume car like the subaru.
Look at what fords inout has doen for the quality of jaguar and aston martin. If ford are so crap, how did they manage to lift the reputations of these "quality" cars?, but there is no doubting that they did.
Fleet car quality and feel is very important these days as is driver appeal and on these factors, ford has proven itself to be class leading time and time again.
sounds to me like another case of "subarus must be the best car in the world because I have one" syndrome.
what is all this crap about?
The focus and mondeo have been consistently the best selling cars in their classes since their release. You dont get a reputation like that in this day and age without being seriously good.
Hands up here who has driven a focus? because behind the wheel even the bottom of the range is seriously grippy and entertaining to drive.
Ford cannot stand to have the poor reliability and build quality of a low volume car like the subaru.
Look at what fords inout has doen for the quality of jaguar and aston martin. If ford are so crap, how did they manage to lift the reputations of these "quality" cars?, but there is no doubting that they did.
Fleet car quality and feel is very important these days as is driver appeal and on these factors, ford has proven itself to be class leading time and time again.
sounds to me like another case of "subarus must be the best car in the world because I have one" syndrome.
21 June 2002, 11:16 AM
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"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
i agree this one ! i actually do have a Ford Probe V6 !
just a statment :"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
understand me : I love this car big time, the look, the handeling, the power (ok for a small 2.5l atmo), IT is a highway queen ! 200km/h as standard speed, with an easy 240 to overtake...
So the concept is exellent for 2 peoples highspeed & low speed cruising (plus a gooooood low end torque to cuise in silence in 5th gear on the french riviera borders)
BUT no Ford are eable to take care of it ! each time... "she" got out worse than before the servicing ! THEY SUCKS BIG TIME, AND I CAN PROVE IT TO ANYONE ! FORD=NO SERVICE...
OK bye bye to my "Proby", the order on a newY02 Scooby is posted ! hi "Scooby"
I drove my father's Y97 scooby and felt in love with it... 5 years ago !
FORD = You are gonna get SCREWD... not by the car ...but by the GUYS !
U can believe me... I lost ALOT of TIME & MONEY on this one ! Almost lost the FAITH ! (last chance this y02 scooby... )
Hope that kill's all ford's buying intentions... they deserve it !
PS :
go to www.probetalk.com you'll see what WE (8000users !!!!) think about the Ford servicing capabilities !
[Edited by Cat - 6/21/2002 11:20:47 AM]
i agree this one ! i actually do have a Ford Probe V6 !
just a statment :"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
"it's a FORD! don't do it! "
understand me : I love this car big time, the look, the handeling, the power (ok for a small 2.5l atmo), IT is a highway queen ! 200km/h as standard speed, with an easy 240 to overtake...
So the concept is exellent for 2 peoples highspeed & low speed cruising (plus a gooooood low end torque to cuise in silence in 5th gear on the french riviera borders)
BUT no Ford are eable to take care of it ! each time... "she" got out worse than before the servicing ! THEY SUCKS BIG TIME, AND I CAN PROVE IT TO ANYONE ! FORD=NO SERVICE...
OK bye bye to my "Proby", the order on a newY02 Scooby is posted ! hi "Scooby"
I drove my father's Y97 scooby and felt in love with it... 5 years ago !
FORD = You are gonna get SCREWD... not by the car ...but by the GUYS !
U can believe me... I lost ALOT of TIME & MONEY on this one ! Almost lost the FAITH ! (last chance this y02 scooby... )
Hope that kill's all ford's buying intentions... they deserve it !
PS :
go to www.probetalk.com you'll see what WE (8000users !!!!) think about the Ford servicing capabilities !
[Edited by Cat - 6/21/2002 11:20:47 AM]
21 June 2002, 11:23 AM
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Adam,
Sorry to disagree with you.. Ford still have a long way to go before they match any of the Japanese manfacturers for Quality, if you measure that in terms of reliability. Their build quality is still pretty variable, which is another significant dimension in terms of quality.
If you're talking about perceived quality (i.e. soft dash plastics and trim materials) then you may have an argument. Actually they lag behind VAG in this area because they have chosen to allocate a greater percentage of their production costs to more sophisticated rear suspension etc. Their drivetrain technology is still nothing to get excited about, but is at least somewhere near the class median as opposed to well below par as they have been in the relatively recent past.
I can't really see the releveance of improvements in quality achieved by the PAG with Aston Martin and their other brands. These very low volume manufacturers effectively hand build their cars and their production processes bear no resemblence to volume manufacturers. Because most of their previous designs are superannuated and underdeveloped, huge quality improvements should were not hard to find.
I do agree that Ford have definately got their act together in terms of dynamics since the bad old days, and even the humble fiesta and Focus are both highly entertaining steers. However if you had owned one I suspect you might not be so enthusiastic about the ownership experience.
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 6/21/2002 11:39:15 AM]
Sorry to disagree with you.. Ford still have a long way to go before they match any of the Japanese manfacturers for Quality, if you measure that in terms of reliability. Their build quality is still pretty variable, which is another significant dimension in terms of quality.
If you're talking about perceived quality (i.e. soft dash plastics and trim materials) then you may have an argument. Actually they lag behind VAG in this area because they have chosen to allocate a greater percentage of their production costs to more sophisticated rear suspension etc. Their drivetrain technology is still nothing to get excited about, but is at least somewhere near the class median as opposed to well below par as they have been in the relatively recent past.
I can't really see the releveance of improvements in quality achieved by the PAG with Aston Martin and their other brands. These very low volume manufacturers effectively hand build their cars and their production processes bear no resemblence to volume manufacturers. Because most of their previous designs are superannuated and underdeveloped, huge quality improvements should were not hard to find.
I do agree that Ford have definately got their act together in terms of dynamics since the bad old days, and even the humble fiesta and Focus are both highly entertaining steers. However if you had owned one I suspect you might not be so enthusiastic about the ownership experience.
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 6/21/2002 11:39:15 AM]
21 June 2002, 11:28 AM
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they may be behind the likes of honda in terms of reliability but not subaru,
their aftermarket support is far better, their dealer network is enormous, their parts far cheaper.
yes plastics and quality feel are also better. structurally they also feel much more sound.
It is the reliability and build quality that they have instilled into jaguar and aston remember. Jaguars interiors were fine, but their engines were not great.
Now consider the duratec V6 and the ally V8 designed using ford knowledge for jaguar? supposedly one fo the finest engines in the world.
Not to mention the zetec engines in the fiestas and focus which have reliability, performance, efficiency and an engine note!
I can vouch for the technical sophistication, I see nearly every patent they apply for.
their aftermarket support is far better, their dealer network is enormous, their parts far cheaper.
yes plastics and quality feel are also better. structurally they also feel much more sound.
It is the reliability and build quality that they have instilled into jaguar and aston remember. Jaguars interiors were fine, but their engines were not great.
Now consider the duratec V6 and the ally V8 designed using ford knowledge for jaguar? supposedly one fo the finest engines in the world.
Not to mention the zetec engines in the fiestas and focus which have reliability, performance, efficiency and an engine note!
I can vouch for the technical sophistication, I see nearly every patent they apply for.
21 June 2002, 12:00 PM
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Adam,
I am prepared to be contadicted, but I believe that Ford's greatest contribution to Jaguar is a massive expansion in their model developent budgets. I also beleive that the AJPV8 was done almost entirely by a Jaguar team lead by Jim Randle. The Duratec based V6 engine is nothing special, as is the motor it is based on. Even with it's Jaguar designed new head, most reviews have identified it as the least satisfactory element of the S and X type models.
Ford's small capacity motors are now quite sweet, but the best was still Yamaha's 1.1 litre used in the previous Fiesta. The other 1.6 and 2.0 litre ford motors are nothing special either in economy or performance.
I don't dispute your point regarding the price and availability of Spares, or the number of dealers. Their dealer network is Ford's greatest strength and also it's greatest weakness. Lets agree to differ regarding the levels of Customer service which are 'legendary' mostly for the wrong reasons.
As you are probably aware, one of the reasons why japanese manufacturers perform better in terms of reliability is their innate conservatism w.r.t new technologies. Western Manfacturers seem worse at integrating new technologies while maintaining high levels of reliability, i.e. the philosophy of development in the field seems prevalent, even with the premium German brands. Can I say 7 Series ECU gremlins and numerous glitches with practically all current Mercedes models?.
In terms of frequency of breakdowns, I'm afraid the RAC and AA stats disagree with your assertion (at least the last set I saw published). This would tend to be supported by both manufacturers historic performance in JD power surveys (and yes, I do take their results with a large pinch of salt..). In terms of the Relative performances of Japanese manufacturers Toyota are premier league, Subaru and Honda next tier, and Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Daihatsu below that.
I would also say that the Impreza is the only car I have ever owned which has never broken down, failed to start or required an unscheduled visit to the dealer in over four years. I'd honestly be suprised if many Ford owners could honestly say the same.
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 6/21/2002 12:06:53 PM]
I am prepared to be contadicted, but I believe that Ford's greatest contribution to Jaguar is a massive expansion in their model developent budgets. I also beleive that the AJPV8 was done almost entirely by a Jaguar team lead by Jim Randle. The Duratec based V6 engine is nothing special, as is the motor it is based on. Even with it's Jaguar designed new head, most reviews have identified it as the least satisfactory element of the S and X type models.
Ford's small capacity motors are now quite sweet, but the best was still Yamaha's 1.1 litre used in the previous Fiesta. The other 1.6 and 2.0 litre ford motors are nothing special either in economy or performance.
I don't dispute your point regarding the price and availability of Spares, or the number of dealers. Their dealer network is Ford's greatest strength and also it's greatest weakness. Lets agree to differ regarding the levels of Customer service which are 'legendary' mostly for the wrong reasons.
As you are probably aware, one of the reasons why japanese manufacturers perform better in terms of reliability is their innate conservatism w.r.t new technologies. Western Manfacturers seem worse at integrating new technologies while maintaining high levels of reliability, i.e. the philosophy of development in the field seems prevalent, even with the premium German brands. Can I say 7 Series ECU gremlins and numerous glitches with practically all current Mercedes models?.
In terms of frequency of breakdowns, I'm afraid the RAC and AA stats disagree with your assertion (at least the last set I saw published). This would tend to be supported by both manufacturers historic performance in JD power surveys (and yes, I do take their results with a large pinch of salt..). In terms of the Relative performances of Japanese manufacturers Toyota are premier league, Subaru and Honda next tier, and Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Daihatsu below that.
I would also say that the Impreza is the only car I have ever owned which has never broken down, failed to start or required an unscheduled visit to the dealer in over four years. I'd honestly be suprised if many Ford owners could honestly say the same.
Cheers,
Alex
[Edited by AlexM - 6/21/2002 12:06:53 PM]
21 June 2002, 01:31 PM
#28
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Alex,
a vrey well reasoned argument as ever.
Dont believe for a second that the financial might is the only input ford had in development of the V8, plenty licenses for use of technology changed hands at that point, as did staff.
I was landed the job of dealing with trademarks for aston martin millenium edition cars which never took off!
It is a valid point that the mx6 and the modeo share a platform, and that ford owns half of mazda, yet their reputation is unquestioned as a japanese manufacturer.
I believe that japanese cars are in general better than the fords, but I just dont think that subaru ranks as one fo the best japanese makes. I would put honda up there with toyota personally.
I guess i am just biased against subaru cos of the problems I have had with mine that have not been tuning related, such as wiring gremlins in ecu loom causing the cps to fail, and also my lack of confidence due to big end bearing failures all over the place which are entirely unexplained. not to mention the they all do that sir attitude of dealers.
I dont believe the customer serveys such as jd power were to do with reliability but customer satisfaction. some people who have problems rectified quickly can end up happier than those who never had cause to complain and I think this distorts the statistics that we read.
Also remember that teh subaru is no longer top and hasnt been for a few years.
a vrey well reasoned argument as ever.
Dont believe for a second that the financial might is the only input ford had in development of the V8, plenty licenses for use of technology changed hands at that point, as did staff.
I was landed the job of dealing with trademarks for aston martin millenium edition cars which never took off!
It is a valid point that the mx6 and the modeo share a platform, and that ford owns half of mazda, yet their reputation is unquestioned as a japanese manufacturer.
I believe that japanese cars are in general better than the fords, but I just dont think that subaru ranks as one fo the best japanese makes. I would put honda up there with toyota personally.
I guess i am just biased against subaru cos of the problems I have had with mine that have not been tuning related, such as wiring gremlins in ecu loom causing the cps to fail, and also my lack of confidence due to big end bearing failures all over the place which are entirely unexplained. not to mention the they all do that sir attitude of dealers.
I dont believe the customer serveys such as jd power were to do with reliability but customer satisfaction. some people who have problems rectified quickly can end up happier than those who never had cause to complain and I think this distorts the statistics that we read.
Also remember that teh subaru is no longer top and hasnt been for a few years.
21 June 2002, 01:33 PM
#29
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Alex,
a vrey well reasoned argument as ever.
Dont believe for a second that the financial might is the only input ford had in development of the V8, plenty licenses for use of technology changed hands at that point, as did staff.
I was landed the job of dealing with trademarks for aston martin millenium edition cars which never took off!
It is a valid point that the mx6 and the modeo share a platform, and that ford owns half of mazda, yet their reputation is unquestioned as a japanese manufacturer.
I believe that japanese cars are in general better than the fords, but I just dont think that subaru ranks as one fo the best japanese makes. I would put honda up there with toyota personally.
I guess i am just biased against subaru cos of the problems I have had with mine that have not been tuning related, such as wiring gremlins in ecu loom causing the cps to fail, and also my lack of confidence due to big end bearing failures all over the place which are entirely unexplained. not to mention the they all do that sir attitude of dealers.
I dont believe the customer serveys such as jd power were to do with reliability but customer satisfaction. some people who have problems rectified quickly can end up happier than those who never had cause to complain and I think this distorts the statistics that we read.
Also remember that teh subaru is no longer top and hasnt been for a few years.
a vrey well reasoned argument as ever.
Dont believe for a second that the financial might is the only input ford had in development of the V8, plenty licenses for use of technology changed hands at that point, as did staff.
I was landed the job of dealing with trademarks for aston martin millenium edition cars which never took off!
It is a valid point that the mx6 and the modeo share a platform, and that ford owns half of mazda, yet their reputation is unquestioned as a japanese manufacturer.
I believe that japanese cars are in general better than the fords, but I just dont think that subaru ranks as one fo the best japanese makes. I would put honda up there with toyota personally.
I guess i am just biased against subaru cos of the problems I have had with mine that have not been tuning related, such as wiring gremlins in ecu loom causing the cps to fail, and also my lack of confidence due to big end bearing failures all over the place which are entirely unexplained. not to mention the they all do that sir attitude of dealers.
I dont believe the customer serveys such as jd power were to do with reliability but customer satisfaction. some people who have problems rectified quickly can end up happier than those who never had cause to complain and I think this distorts the statistics that we read.
Also remember that teh subaru is no longer top and hasnt been for a few years.
21 June 2002, 01:40 PM
#30
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Sorry - but at the end of the day your gonna buy a quick Focus.. which is just a focus that looks a bit better and goes a bit quicker.
Its still a Ford........
Go for the scooby... you'll get cred from everyone
Jza
ps "Why is everyone ford bashing?" - errr Adam - this is the scoobynet not RSOC !!!!
Its still a Ford........
Go for the scooby... you'll get cred from everyone
Jza
ps "Why is everyone ford bashing?" - errr Adam - this is the scoobynet not RSOC !!!!