I'm thinking of doing a driving course to help me get the best out of my car, I've had some prices back for courses with John Lyon and Don Palmer which aren't cheap so I'd like feedback off people who have done either of these courses before I take the plunge.

1. Are they value for money?
2. Did you learn much?
3. Has it improved your driving/car control?

Also like to hear from anybody whose done other courses which they'd recommend.

 

Advanced driving course is probably the best one for you, it teaches you things that you need to know about everyday driving, things that were never taught to you when you first pass your test.
This is the best place to start

Tony

 

Check out www.performancedrivers.co.uk
(I think that's the right address).
Mossman

 

I was thinking of doing something similiar, could you share the prices you've got, either on the BBS or via email?

thanks,

greg

 

Try http://www.1stlotus.co.uk

A great way to learn what your scoob will do when you find the edge.

Ian

 

Tony, have you done the advanced course? If so what did you think of it?

Greg the prices i've been given are:-

Don Palmer Creative car Control £395 (full Day)

John Lyon HPC Course First Drive £164.50 (1/2 day)
Advanced Touring Course £464.12 (full day)

 

I've done an advanced driving course at Silverstone, Skid Pan and things like that, Have to say it's worth the pennies imho, I would rate them, obviously it depends driver to driver but it teaches you things which you use every time you start your car

 

Pete,

What sort of driver training are you after?

If you want to learn how to drive you car on the limit at the track, then the courses you mention are probably a good starting point.

But, as Tony says, if you want to learn how to get from A to B quickly and safely, then some sort of Advanced Driving course is the order of the day. I am about to take my RoSPA test and would highly recommend joining your local RoADA (RoSPA Advanced Drivers Association).

Cheers
Tim

 

Tim, I suppose I'm after a bit of both as I wan't to be able to handle the car on the limit but don't think I'll be doing many track days. I also want yo be able to drive quickly and safely and importantly have fun.

Does RoADA teach you things like limit handling or is it more to do with theory and general day to day driving where you won't be going that quickly.

Thanks,
Pete.

 

I've been on the Don Palmer course, not cheap but I thought it was superb. Read this month's evo for a feel of it - performance driving article.

 

Pete,

To pass the RoSPA test you have to be able to make 'progress' (as long as it is safe to do so). In fact, I know of several drivers that 'only' achieved bronze or silver passes, the main reason being that they failed to make as much 'progress' as the examiner thought they could have under the conditions.....

They won't teach you much, if anything, about on-the-limit car control, but they will teach you how to tackle bends on the road safely, smoothly and swiftly. Saying that, once you've joined, your local group may organise track days or skid pan sessions. For example my local group have just organised a skid pan session for £50 a head.

Once you've joined your local group (it varies I think but ours was only £7.50 IIRC), the only other cost is the test, £45. The instructors will give you as much tuition (within reasonable limits!) to coach you for the test. The training is based around the Police driving manual, Roadcraft, and you will have to re-take the test every 3 years to maintain your 'Advanced Driver' status.

Bear in mind though, that this is about safety and legality, so if you have difficulty sticking to the speed limit around town, you won't get very far with these guys. However, if you can master this, plus 'un-learning' some things you were taught to pass your driving test, then they'll teach you how to cover ground swiftly through better observation and anticipation.

It might be worth seeing if your local Police or council are running a course. If they are, then it will probably be pitched at a very low-level and therefore a bit dull, but if there is an opportunity to go on a demo drive with a Police Class 1 driver or instructor, this will give you a very good idea of what can be achieved! These courses are usually cheap and you might even get a copy of Roadcraft thrown in.

See here to find your local group http://www.roada.freeserve.co.uk/

There's also the Institute of Advanced Motorists (IAM), but I'm told that their test is very 'prescriptive' or 'strict'. For example, a RoSPA examiner will not necessarily penalise you (and may even give you credit, in terms of making 'progress') for breaking the speed limit in a NSL zone, or cutting a right hand bend when you can see it is clear and safe to do so. IAM will, so I'm told, penalise you for these 'technical' infringements, even if it is perfectly safe. Anyone with IAM experience, feel free to comment!

However, road and track driving are completely different (obviously!), which is frustrating when you've just spent 3 months 'un-learning' how you've been driving for 18 years. For me this meant trying not to 'overlap' gear changes with braking. Then I go to a track day and your told to keep on the brakes as you change down, to keep the car balanced! Doh!

Cheers
Tim

 

Hi Tim , thanks for all the info, I've mailed my local rep and I'm waiting for some info off them. Have you got any experience on "on the limit " handling courses?

Would taking some of these courses together with the advanced driver program be of benefit or not?

It sounds like the advanced driver program is similar to the HPC course with John Lyon.

 

ttt.

 

Pete,

I've been following the John Lyon articles in EVO, and, yes, it's very similiar to the RoSPA training, with the exception of the last article about power oversteer.

I don't have any experience of on-the-limit driver training. Mind you, they are taking me to a skid pan



Cheers
Tim

[Edited by NBW - 7/7/2002 8:29:55 PM]

 

Tim, how did you get on with your RoSPA test?

I went out with one of my local group last night to see what it's all about and I'm going to give it a go.

What's the deal about not overlapping gear changes and breaking though, I've had a quick look at Roadcraft but it's still not that clear.

I asked Lee last night and he didn't see it as a problem as long as when I'm turning the wheel I use both hands.

 

Hi Pete,

I'm not taking my test until next month now, as my new car arrived a bit early (Golf PD150, http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...hreadid=113740)

As for the overlapping, it's all about the system of car control. Have a look at p24. Basically you're using the brakes to reduce speed to tackle whatever the situation is, and it's only then that you select the right gear for the speed, and the performance you need to tackle whatever the obstacle is.

It's just forcing you to be more methodical I guess, it's bloody difficult to learn, and I'm not entirely convinced of it's benefit. There's even a bit in the book about when you CAN overlap!

Cheers
Tim

 

Pete,

wouldn't you be better doing a couple of track days and grabbing the likes of Rob Mac or similar for a while?

 

Why not do both

 

Tim, I'll have to do a bit more reading over the next couple of days to try and get things straight.

Mo, I hope to do a track day before long , don't mean to be rude but who is Rob Mac?

 

Pete

I did a performance driving course with Don Palmer back in May and it was absolutely excellent. Granted a little pricey but I would say money well spent. I did the course to specifically gain confidence behind the wheel after a bad accident last year. All i can say is that not only did I get my confidence back, I think it made me a better driver with regard to control of the car. He is a great teacher!!

I cannot rate this bloke anymore highly.

Good luck with you decision

 

Stu,
I'm going to give the RoSPA course a go but was also hoping to find the cash to do the Don Palmer day as well, did you get a lot of tyre wear on the day as I take it the course is on a dry track unlike the Wetter The Better course Don used to run.

 

Corsas,aren't they just newer Novas?

 

Pete
I had to change my tyres straight after the course but but my tread was low anyway. Don was able to use his connections to get me a new set at a tyre shop close by The other 2 drives did not have to.
I was not surprised about the amount of tyre wear as was he was teaching us was control of the car near to or on it's limit. The great thing was that he made you answer your own questions as to why the car was doing what it was. As it said before, for me it was a great experience. I hope you get the same from the one you are going on

stubarru

 

Jim Russell is a very good driving course i have been twice some years ago but you go home from there feeling that you have learned something but it isn`t cheap.
Then again they say you only get what you pay for

Richard........