vmax

Since the launch of the Subaru Impreza Turbo I have been lusting after one. It was a breath of fresh air because it stood out as strong, quick affordable drivers car. It was often overlooked for more expensive drivers cars like the cossies of the day.

Times and technology have changed since then , and Subaru are no longer the Alpha male of the pack. The new STi is an attempt to get back but I do not think that they have succeded even with this car.

Why do I say that. Well one of the reasons why I liked the impreza in the first place is because it was different, and not so common. The performance was also way ahead of the pack.

Not so now.

The rest of the pack have been working out in the gym. Stacking up with the creatine and whey protein. The result is the gap is not so big anymore.

1) Skoda RS ( I have seen a posting of a chap who has bought one of these over his scoob)
2) Honda Civic Type R
3) Audi S3 /TT ( 2.0 225bhp version to be launched this year )
4) VW Golf V6 4 Motion

5) Ford Focus RS http://www.bbsfocusrs.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000163

I saw a pre-production version with trade plates hanging on for dear life twisting about the round abouts in milton keynes. This car is fecking fast !

Ok on paper some of these cars aren't as quick as say the UK spec STi, But they aren't that far off. Anyway who drives on paper.

The point of this post is to show that Subaru need to run some of that magic they first had when the Impreza Turbo first came out. I want Subaru to be the daddy of value for money performance.

Lauching loads of different models in close sucsession then promising to make things better with a PPP bolt on doesn't do it.

Who knows next year I may be trading in my WRX for a Focus RS.

Vmax

[Edited by vmax - 7/6/2002 2:32:59 PM]

TurboBoost

I'd just say where 3 or 4 years ago there used to be your typical small tinny hot hatch, and then a massive jump to the Impreza. Now there is a new breed of affordable super hot hatches and sporting saloons that may not be faster, but certainly narrow the gap. They offer cheaper to run alternatives for people who want 80% of the performance without the running costs.
This has occured as manufacturers have recognised the demand in the market for such models. As far as the VAG range go, the introduction of the 1.8 20V Turbo lump has been instrumental in powering the new breed. Its a chip tuners dream.
Renault and Honda have both pushed the envelope of normally aspirated engines.
Combine all this with the current Imprezas weight gains and Vmax doesn't sound so daft.
The Focus RS and Leon Cupra R are going to be the next pair to make the WRX's life a little uncomfortable IMO. Some people don't want to have to modify a car thats already cost them over 20 grand, they just want it to deliver the goods out of the box.
The boring gits.

[Edited by TurboBoost - 7/6/2002 10:26:44 PM]

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Don't hold your breath for the Focus Rs Cosworth, mate. I've lost count of the times that ford have put it's release date back. Also picked up a v. small bit in Auto Exptress saying that Ford were now thinking it couldn't be done for a road car.
After all,,why should they? They won't sell enough to break even with dev. costs, it'll always lag behind the facelifted models, just like the RS models were always released 2 years later--just in time for ANOTHER facelift to make them lose their value, and anyway, they can continue rallying w/o releasing one.
Always remember:
F Fix
O Or
R Repair
D Daily!!!!!!!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yup the cosworth is suppose to be out in 2005 but the RS (ie as in RS turbo) which is a front wheel drive, 210+bhp car is due out very shortly

Tony

Moles Dad

Oh dear!

MD.

vmax

alcazar

yep I know about the Cossie focus. I put the link to show what is also potentialy on it's way. The Focus RS goes into production in September. This is the one I saw tearing up tarmac in MK.

Come Subaru, Show em's who's the daddy !

F Figured
O Out
R Rapid
D Delivery

Well itlooks like it with this line up

Josh L

Well each to his own. Personally I wouldn't want a front wheel drive car of that power, and certainly not a Ford. I'm not being a snob, I've had several in the past, and they have all let me down big time.

With reference to the Cosworth, I understand from a guy at Cosworth that they are looking at April/May next year. I don't know where 2005 came from, as the Focus will undoubtedly be considerably different by then.

Josh

Moles Dad

Oh dear!

MD.

ps, If you dont like Subaru any longer go and buy the Ford.

chrisp

Rumour was they needed the new focus chassis to fit the 4x4 running gear for the cossie variant. The RS is a step in the right direction but like Josh said I also IMHO wouldnt want to go back to a 200+bhp FWD car now I have been spoilt with AWD.

vmax

Instead of being able to obliterate the competition which was more likely in the past. You would manage to creep past them.

If you want AWD what about quattro.... Audi S3 anybody.. 225 flavour coming v soon.

Everybody chooses different cars for different reasons. My reason was obvious. I chose a scoob for performance/value for money. Subaru stood out.

Not so now !

MD... I'm not saying I dont love my scoob. I wish subaru would just stop playing about with model releases which all seem to revolve around the addtion of PPP. Just get on with it and bring back that feeling that you climbing into a tornado jet when you get into your car. Make it different again.

chrisp

S3 is hardly a performance upgrade 210bhp giving 150bhp/ton which is less than a UK WRX's 158bhp/ton and the S3 costs 25K. Even with the extra 15bhp its not gonna be much different IMHO. You could buy a WRX and get it PPP up to 245bhp for a lot less than 25K.

chrisp

Must admit 225bhp in an S3 would tempt me but it would have to lose 375kgs at least .

Moles Dad

Vmax, yes I understand what you are saying.

I was under the impression that the UK cars were kept down due to the emission criteria they have to meet. (stand to be corrected).

I still believe that as a 'package' the Impreza still provides a very good deal when compared to the alternatives on the market...within the price bracket that is.

Yes Audi,BMW etc will continue to produce high quality,high power cars, but well out of my price range.

They will produce quiet,refined and powerful cars...not what I want at all (not yet anyway). I enjoy my Scooby for its 'raw' nature, I like the fact that in order to reduce weight the men at Fuji decided to make every body panel out of foil, and the interior from paper

As someone else said "each to their own"...Yes I still look at Fords (I grew up on em), I also look at any car which has low profiles and an audible exhaust note, but I still believe that my Scooby is a superb VFM/performance car. (The boy in the Evo VI must have thought so too).

Anyway, thanks for taking time to reply, Regards, MD.

SCOOBERATORS

None of them cars will touch a subaru impreza turbo.

As for buying a ford

.

yoza

Vmax what do you actually drive?
In the real world........not an imaginary one.

Moles Dad

Dont be nasty, he has already said he has a Scooby!

Vmax (quick motorbike when I was a lad), I reckon its a new shape 2001 maybe, Blue, 215bhp or whatever they are...am I close?

let us know, MD.

Moles Dad

Turboboost, do these new 'super hot hatches' really have 80% of the performance of an Impreza?

I have not driven a standard Scooby, so I dont really know just how close the little blighters get.

I dont race on the road so I dont get much of a chance to see these new cars 'giving it'.

I look at data sheets if I am reading a magazine...normally I end up looking at the bhp/ton and the 0-60, 0-100 times, there is not a lot that get near a Scoob (on paper).

Is it that different on the road?

MD.

TurboBoost

Actually I was wrong, its probably more than 80%, especially from a 'real world' rolling start. If we're talking 0-100 then the Civic Type R will pip the current WRX, a Clio 172 will give it a hard time, and so will a few mildly tweaked Skodas and SEATs for that matter.
But handling and traction - different story. Wet weather is the real decider, when the FWD'ers will be either spinning the front wheels, or bogged down by traction control.
Cannot wait to test drive the last two cars I mentioned to see how they cope with 200+ bhp, I reckon they will be bloody good though, certainly in the dry.

Moles Dad

I will have to be a bit more respectful when I come across these little fellas wont I?

The new Skoda looks like it can do the biz,(VAG).
The Cupra R is sposed to be a bit lively too.

But as I said earlier, I dont race on the road.

Cheers for now, MD.

elondan

Take AUTOCAR, they thought the Octavia RS will be a good run for the money Vs the Impreza and it was left so far behind in thier 0-100-0 test they where amazed...
as for the others I believe Subaru will introduse a stronger WRX, but even now with cars like the STI,
just look at how it rates against cars like the pricier EVO and 156 GTA much pricier M3...
in Top gear they chose it "Driver's car" for 2002,
Autocar just rated it above the 156GTA' 330 sport and the Evo7 (only 7 stars),
Evo said it was better than the Evo (last issue), and before when tested against M3 smg, CTR, 911, Elise... it also won and was rated 5 stars.
I really don't know what is the problem.

logiclee

I tend to agree with VMax, Looking at standard UK WRX cars and prices the WRX costing £21000 ish is starting to look a little expensive against the crop of 180bhp to 200bhp cars coming on the scene.

Most are FWD but this also means less transmission losses and I've recently tried out a few Skoda, Seat, Alfa, MG etc and to be honest I have been quite shocked with how good the latest FWD performance cars handle and the amount of traction they have.
I can remember my old XR3i back in the 80's used to spin its wheels everywhere and it only had 105bhp, chassis design has certainly come a long way.
To be honest on the road how often to you give the scoob 5k rpm and drop the clutch from the start, this is how the mags achieve the 0-60 and 0-100 times.
The scoob still has the edge on traction out of wet slow corners though as most of the FWD breed will be flashing the traction control lights, in the dry I don't think there would be much in it, I had to drive like a complete **** in the Skoda to get the traction control operating in the dry in the Skoda RS, Skoda salesman didn't seem to impressed though, suppose its been a bit of a culture shock for them having enthusiast taking out their cars.

Subaru need to make the UK car 250bhp and STI UK 300bhp standard and drop the price to Euro levels and it may once again have the crown as performance bargain.

Lee