Company car forces sale..... What's that all about?
08 June 2001, 12:00 AM
#1
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Great stuff Laurence!
Please forward the spreadsheet - I'd love to see it.
What irks me about our system is that the pence per mile remuneration does not differentiate between people who opt for a car and those who take the cash. My previous employer didn't offer cars as an option - money only. I had to sort myself out and got a scoob - no regrets on the car front at all. However, getting a redemption figure on my car now scares the hell out of me. I reckon it's worth a round of drinks and 2 bags of crisps.
Cheers
Kav
Please forward the spreadsheet - I'd love to see it.
What irks me about our system is that the pence per mile remuneration does not differentiate between people who opt for a car and those who take the cash. My previous employer didn't offer cars as an option - money only. I had to sort myself out and got a scoob - no regrets on the car front at all. However, getting a redemption figure on my car now scares the hell out of me. I reckon it's worth a round of drinks and 2 bags of crisps.
Cheers
Kav
08 June 2001, 08:21 AM
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Not as open and shut as you think.
Car allowance is not always the better option (unless you do mega mileage), and it has to be very generous to run a scoob - I know, I opted out of the car policy thinking £800 per month car allowance would easily cover the owning/running costs. My MY99 cost me £17000 per year by the time depreciation/petrol/running costs etc have been accounted for
(not including mods 
). This meant even after a generous car allowance (almost 3 times the average car allowance) I was still £7400 PER YEAR out of pocket 
You can see now why I have opted for a 330d! Still my own car, paid for by car allowance, but now with a profit
Compared to the scoob I will save £8500 PER YEAR £25000 profit over the course of three years of ownership ) Year one's saving will pay for my Caterham next winter
Car allowance is not always the better option (unless you do mega mileage), and it has to be very generous to run a scoob - I know, I opted out of the car policy thinking £800 per month car allowance would easily cover the owning/running costs. My MY99 cost me £17000 per year by the time depreciation/petrol/running costs etc have been accounted for
(not including mods ). This meant even after a generous car allowance (almost 3 times the average car allowance) I was still £7400 PER YEAR out of pocket You can see now why I have opted for a 330d! Still my own car, paid for by car allowance, but now with a profit
Compared to the scoob I will save £8500 PER YEAR £25000 profit over the course of three years of ownership ) Year one's saving will pay for my Caterham next winter
08 June 2001, 08:42 AM
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I've just got a company car, but i'm keeping the Scoob, this means i can do track days in it without worrying about breaking it and not been able to get to work the next day. The car I got is Focus estate which is ideal for carting the gear to the tracks and the tax ain't that bad, and i'm surprised how much i like driving it, decent spec few toys on it etc. So having a company car doesn't mean you sell the scoob, it means you can have loads more fun!!!
Skip.
Skip.
08 June 2001, 08:56 AM
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Gary, I also opted out of the car scheme to buy the scoob. Would be interested to see where your figures come from.
I don't count in depreciation since the allowance makes the payments on my car. If I had a company car I would not get this cash, in this way any residual value on the car once it's paid has to be a profit.
Petrol is factored into my allowance since company car drivers get cards, although they only give me £135 a month for that and I budget around £300.
I know that I'm not making a loss as I run a separate bank account for car allowance and expenses. This account has covered service costs, petrol, insurance, tax, tyres, new Magnex system, speakers and wheels so far whilst staying nicely in credit.
Another thing to note is that the government is increasing the 4,000 mile allowance for business to 10,000 next year (I did 4860 last year).
I would say that if you can, do the figures and keep the scoob. You may not make masses of money but you should at least break even with a smile
Laurence
I don't count in depreciation since the allowance makes the payments on my car. If I had a company car I would not get this cash, in this way any residual value on the car once it's paid has to be a profit.
Petrol is factored into my allowance since company car drivers get cards, although they only give me £135 a month for that and I budget around £300.
I know that I'm not making a loss as I run a separate bank account for car allowance and expenses. This account has covered service costs, petrol, insurance, tax, tyres, new Magnex system, speakers and wheels so far whilst staying nicely in credit.
Another thing to note is that the government is increasing the 4,000 mile allowance for business to 10,000 next year (I did 4860 last year).
I would say that if you can, do the figures and keep the scoob. You may not make masses of money but you should at least break even with a smile
Laurence
08 June 2001, 09:18 AM
#6
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Some companies do insist you have the car and not an allowance. I heard of one guy who couldn't drive, but still had a company car. The car didn't move from the company car park for 3 years!
08 June 2001, 09:25 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by lpitt:
<B>Gary, I also opted out of the car scheme to buy the scoob. Would be interested to see where your figures come from.
I don't count in depreciation since the allowance makes the payments on my car. If I had a company car I would not get this cash, in this way any residual value on the car once it's paid has to be a profit.
Petrol is factored into my allowance since company car drivers get cards, although they only give me £135 a month for that and I budget around £300.
I know that I'm not making a loss as I run a separate bank account for car allowance and expenses. This account has covered service costs, petrol, insurance, tax, tyres, new Magnex system, speakers and wheels so far whilst staying nicely in credit.
Another thing to note is that the government is increasing the 4,000 mile allowance for business to 10,000 next year (I did 4860 last year).
I would say that if you can, do the figures and keep the scoob. You may not make masses of money but you should at least break even with a smile
Laurence[/quote]
Couldn’t get a PCP at 30000 per year, so had to buy myself, so depreciation does come in to it.
Cost £27500, sold for £15000 = £12500
Servicing = £990
14 tyres @ 125 each = £1750
3 set of front pads, 1 rears = £240
Petrol 42k miles (c8klitres)=£7000
2 new wheels due to potholes= £340
Total £22820 in 16months
Gives cost per year of £17115
Car allowance of £800 per month (£9600 per year) gives yearly loss of £7515 or £620 PER MONTH
<B>Gary, I also opted out of the car scheme to buy the scoob. Would be interested to see where your figures come from.
I don't count in depreciation since the allowance makes the payments on my car. If I had a company car I would not get this cash, in this way any residual value on the car once it's paid has to be a profit.
Petrol is factored into my allowance since company car drivers get cards, although they only give me £135 a month for that and I budget around £300.
I know that I'm not making a loss as I run a separate bank account for car allowance and expenses. This account has covered service costs, petrol, insurance, tax, tyres, new Magnex system, speakers and wheels so far whilst staying nicely in credit.
Another thing to note is that the government is increasing the 4,000 mile allowance for business to 10,000 next year (I did 4860 last year).
I would say that if you can, do the figures and keep the scoob. You may not make masses of money but you should at least break even with a smile
Laurence[/quote]
Couldn’t get a PCP at 30000 per year, so had to buy myself, so depreciation does come in to it.
Cost £27500, sold for £15000 = £12500
Servicing = £990
14 tyres @ 125 each = £1750
3 set of front pads, 1 rears = £240
Petrol
42k miles (c8klitres)=£70002 new wheels due to potholes= £340
Total £22820 in 16months
Gives cost per year of £17115
Car allowance of £800 per month (£9600 per year) gives yearly loss of £7515
or £620 PER MONTH
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08 June 2001, 09:29 AM
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I hope you meant £1,700 and not £17,000 a year Gary!
Even so, I'm with Gary on this one. I work for one of the 'Big 5' and the way expenses are charged back to the client means that, cash or company car, you get a flat rate of 12p a mile. Just to break even on petrol your car would need to do around 34 mpg (assuming £3.85 per gallon for PUL). Add in servicing, insurance, tyres, 35,000 miles a year and depreciation (agree with Laurence's point to a degree but it is the biggest cost of ownership especially on a new car)and it's costing a fortune.
I've tried running a mini profit & loss centre in the past to get some tax written off by Her Majesty's finest but I'm still miles better off with a company car - even with the new CO2 rules coming in next year (providing it's a high performance diesel, of course.)
Now then, what options does that leave me car wise?
Even so, I'm with Gary on this one. I work for one of the 'Big 5' and the way expenses are charged back to the client means that, cash or company car, you get a flat rate of 12p a mile. Just to break even on petrol your car would need to do around 34 mpg (assuming £3.85 per gallon for PUL). Add in servicing, insurance, tyres, 35,000 miles a year and depreciation (agree with Laurence's point to a degree but it is the biggest cost of ownership especially on a new car)and it's costing a fortune.
I've tried running a mini profit & loss centre in the past to get some tax written off by Her Majesty's finest but I'm still miles better off with a company car - even with the new CO2 rules coming in next year (providing it's a high performance diesel, of course.)
Now then, what options does that leave me car wise?
08 June 2001, 09:34 AM
#9
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Am I missing something, you don't seem to have any figures for tax.
Personally, I've just given back my company Scoob and got my own. B'stards just reduced the per mile allowance by nearly 50%.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>
Couldn’t get a PCP at 30000 per year, so had to buy myself, so depreciation does come in to it.
Cost £27500, sold for £15000 = £12500
Servicing = £990
14 tyres @ 125 each = £1750
3 set of front pads, 1 rears = £240
Petrol 42k miles (c8klitres)=£7000
2 new wheels due to potholes= £340
Total £22820 in 16months
Gives cost per year of £17115
Car allowance of £800 per month (£9600 per year) gives yearly loss of £7515 or £620 PER MONTH [/quote]
Personally, I've just given back my company Scoob and got my own. B'stards just reduced the per mile allowance by nearly 50%.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by GaryC:
<B>
Couldn’t get a PCP at 30000 per year, so had to buy myself, so depreciation does come in to it.
Cost £27500, sold for £15000 = £12500
Servicing = £990
14 tyres @ 125 each = £1750
3 set of front pads, 1 rears = £240
Petrol
42k miles (c8klitres)=£70002 new wheels due to potholes= £340
Total £22820 in 16months
Gives cost per year of £17115
Car allowance of £800 per month (£9600 per year) gives yearly loss of £7515
or £620 PER MONTH [/quote]
08 June 2001, 10:18 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Tiggs:
<B>the guy that bought my bike said he was gonna try track days, i said "ohhh noooo, to scary for me!" while trying to keep him away from the garage and 10 sets of melted tyers!
[/quote]
Tiggs, that's misdescribing something and is illegal. Tell porkies when selling something and the buyer does have comeback against you - about the only time they do as a private seller...
Naturally, you were only joking
<B>the guy that bought my bike said he was gonna try track days, i said "ohhh noooo, to scary for me!" while trying to keep him away from the garage and 10 sets of melted tyers!
[/quote]
Tiggs, that's misdescribing something and is illegal. Tell porkies when selling something and the buyer does have comeback against you - about the only time they do as a private seller...
Naturally, you were only joking
08 June 2001, 10:32 AM
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Kav,
Would be interested in which sector 'big 5' you are referring to so that I can avoid
My company allow the opt out and still pay 36p per mile for 4,000 then 15p per mile for everything else. Plus remember the government allow you to claim back the difference up to 45p per mile on 4,000 and 25p per mile on the rest. For me this is a cheque for about £350.
I could send you a spreadsheet that helps, you enter figures and it gives you a result to enter on your tax return. Another spreadsheet I have also allows you to enter car allowances etc and work out if you are better off with a company car or not.
Also, my costs this year:
Servicing £600
Tyres (*4) £360 (P-Zeros)
Wheel refurb £180
Magnex system £250 (no downpipe)
Speakers £200
So a little less than Gary. My total mileage is also only around 15,000 for the year.
Laurence
Would be interested in which sector 'big 5' you are referring to so that I can avoid
My company allow the opt out and still pay 36p per mile for 4,000 then 15p per mile for everything else. Plus remember the government allow you to claim back the difference up to 45p per mile on 4,000 and 25p per mile on the rest. For me this is a cheque for about £350.
I could send you a spreadsheet that helps, you enter figures and it gives you a result to enter on your tax return. Another spreadsheet I have also allows you to enter car allowances etc and work out if you are better off with a company car or not.
Also, my costs this year:
Servicing £600
Tyres (*4) £360 (P-Zeros)
Wheel refurb £180
Magnex system £250 (no downpipe)
Speakers £200
So a little less than Gary. My total mileage is also only around 15,000 for the year.
Laurence
08 June 2001, 12:08 PM
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I've seen a few posts where folk r selling their pride and joy 'cos they is getting a co. car. WHY?
Turn the co. car down and ask for a mileage allowance/increase in basic instead.
If the fleet manager wants to know why, tell 'im that you don't wanna pay co. car tax.
You get to keep ya scoob,pay less tax, have more fun and he doesn't have to fund leases, insurance and provide you with a petrol card.
Surely a company cannot "make" you have a company car! Can they?
It pains me that fellow scoob owners have to get rid ov thier cars because they are doin' an honest days work
MIKEY
Turn the co. car down and ask for a mileage allowance/increase in basic instead.
If the fleet manager wants to know why, tell 'im that you don't wanna pay co. car tax.
You get to keep ya scoob,pay less tax, have more fun and he doesn't have to fund leases, insurance and provide you with a petrol card.
Surely a company cannot "make" you have a company car! Can they?
It pains me that fellow scoob owners have to get rid ov thier cars because they are doin' an honest days work
MIKEY
08 June 2001, 12:32 PM
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i've sold more cars because co. forces sale than ive had jobs! not to mention baby forces sale!
dont belive everything you read!
the guy that bought my bike said he was gonna try track days, i said "ohhh noooo, to scary for me!" while trying to keep him away from the garage and 10 sets of melted tyers!
buy what you see not what you are told
tiggs
dont belive everything you read!
the guy that bought my bike said he was gonna try track days, i said "ohhh noooo, to scary for me!" while trying to keep him away from the garage and 10 sets of melted tyers!
buy what you see not what you are told
tiggs
08 June 2001, 01:03 PM
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Kav,
Will forward the spreadsheet next week when I'm in the office, just need to 'de-personalize' them.
As a comment, the carorcash web-site showed me making a saving of £69 a month taking the allowance over having a company car.
One other thing to remember, a lot of the calculations for tax etc are based on list price of car. You can always buy low mileage second hand. Bear that in mind when doing calculations.
Laurence
Will forward the spreadsheet next week when I'm in the office, just need to 'de-personalize' them.
As a comment, the carorcash web-site showed me making a saving of £69 a month taking the allowance over having a company car.
One other thing to remember, a lot of the calculations for tax etc are based on list price of car. You can always buy low mileage second hand. Bear that in mind when doing calculations.
Laurence
08 June 2001, 01:13 PM
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How do you go about claiming back the mileage rate from the Government? So far I've had the car for 6 months and done over 17k's worth of miles - the vast majority of which are business.
I do receive a mileage rate of 12.5p per mile, but this still leaves me out of pocket, so if somebody could let me know the processes involved it would be greatly appreciated.
Scott
I do receive a mileage rate of 12.5p per mile, but this still leaves me out of pocket
, so if somebody could let me know the processes involved it would be greatly appreciated. Scott
08 June 2001, 01:35 PM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by kav:
<B>I hope you meant £1,700 and not £17,000 a year Gary!
[/quote]
No - read it and weep - £17000 per year - see the above and do the maths!!
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JackClark:
<B>Am I missing something, you don't seem to have any figures for tax.
Personally, I've just given back my company Scoob and got my own. B'stards just reduced the per mile allowance by nearly 50%.
[/quote]
Tax doesn't apply as everything is bought from net earnings, and I was stating the cost of owning a privatly owned Scoob, and comparing to my privately owned 330d, albeit funded by a car allowance.
Tax would only come into play when working out Private ownership Vs Company car, but had I got the Subaru as a company car I wouldn't be paying almost £8000 per year in car tax but then I wouldn't have been able to play with it would I
With the Beemer I am £brusters better off with a car allowance
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by gregh:
<B>GaryC - 14 tyres in 16 months!!!!!![/quote]
Yes but 42000 miles and 3 track days
<B>I hope you meant £1,700 and not £17,000 a year Gary!
[/quote]
No - read it and weep - £17000 per year
- see the above and do the maths!! <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by JackClark:
<B>Am I missing something, you don't seem to have any figures for tax.
Personally, I've just given back my company Scoob and got my own. B'stards just reduced the per mile allowance by nearly 50%.
[/quote]
Tax doesn't apply as everything is bought from net earnings, and I was stating the cost of owning a privatly owned Scoob, and comparing to my privately owned 330d, albeit funded by a car allowance.
Tax would only come into play when working out Private ownership Vs Company car, but had I got the Subaru as a company car I wouldn't be paying almost £8000 per year in car tax
but then I wouldn't have been able to play with it would I With the Beemer I am £brusters better off with a car allowance
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by gregh:
<B>GaryC - 14 tyres in 16 months!!!!!![/quote]
Yes but 42000 miles and 3 track days
08 June 2001, 04:58 PM
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chiark,
dont be daft! the melted tyers were from my wifes scooter not my bike! just didnt want the buyer to get the wrong impression!
anyway, if they had been my tyres-which they werent, saying trackdays are to scary is not lying- they terrify me! dont think ive ever "lied" in a sale. (dont think?!)
tiggs
ps- my bike was 200% better looked after than some old dog that sat out in all weather, got thrashed from cold, never saw an oil change, etc he got a good deal!
dont be daft! the melted tyers were from my wifes scooter not my bike! just didnt want the buyer to get the wrong impression!
anyway, if they had been my tyres-which they werent, saying trackdays are to scary is not lying- they terrify me! dont think ive ever "lied" in a sale. (dont think?!)
tiggs
ps- my bike was 200% better looked after than some old dog that sat out in all weather, got thrashed from cold, never saw an oil change, etc he got a good deal!
08 June 2001, 05:02 PM
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company car people- if you swap to private and you need the car for business use ar you allowing for offsetting your private costs against tax? im sure you are but there are to many numbers for mr to check- very confusing!!
for example- i get extra pay to run my own car but no milage allowance- therefore everything spent on the car (lease cost, petrol, service, pink grill badge) gets off set against my tax. (at least 75% does because thats my business usage) means petrol is 40% cheaper than it appears!!
tiggs
[This message has been edited by Tiggs (edited 08 June 2001).]
for example- i get extra pay to run my own car but no milage allowance- therefore everything spent on the car (lease cost, petrol, service, pink grill badge) gets off set against my tax. (at least 75% does because thats my business usage) means petrol is 40% cheaper than it appears!!
tiggs
[This message has been edited by Tiggs (edited 08 June 2001).]
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