jamesr

I am currently awaiting delivery of a P1 (Yes my order has been confirmed by the dealer, before you ask !)

After weeks of mulling over whether the P1 will be as good as I had first imagined, certain doubts have entered my mind (New shape scooby on the way,Value for money etc)the thought of buying an Evo VI instead has begun to emerge.

Upon closer inspection of the EVO VI the gap between the 2 cars is becoming smaller and smaller(Obviously without driving the P1)

What is the current train of "Intelligent" thought and is/has anyone else been in a similar position ??

(Buy the way has anyone noticed my fantastic P1 numberplate for sale on the BBS ?)

Sorry about the shameless plug.

GCollier

James,

Obviously, I've never driven a P1 either, but I am taking delivery of an Evo VI in March. I believe the Evo is a superior driving machine to any impreza I have driven (for reasons I have posted previously), which include 99MY, 98MY, 98MY-prodrive, Sti-V Type-R. If you can trust what you read in magazines, the Evo VI is generally rated as superior to the Impreza, apart from Evo magazine who prefer the RB5. The prototype P1 which was road-tested by autocar and rated as a superior car to the Evo VI, was, I believe not representative of customer cars in a number of ways.

If you have ordered a P1 (rather than go the grey route), then I would guess that product back-up and warranty is important to you. To get an Evo VI through the "proper" channels (i.e. Mitsubishi UK/Ralliart), will not save you much money, as their price is £30995. Even these cars are not UK type approved though, and Ralliart put them through an SVA test.

I don't know whether you have driven any greys imprezas, or an Evo VI, but their ride is a lot firmer than UK cars, which may or may not be important to you. From what I have read, Prodrive are sorting the suspension on P1's to make them more suitable for UK roads.

Another area where Evo VI's seem to be particularly hard hit is with insurance. I've been unable to obtain quotes below about £1600 (I am 29, have 5yrs NCB, clean license, car garaged in Surrey).

At the end of the day, I suspect that in terms of real-world performance, there will be little to choose between the cars. Both represent the pinnacle of road car offerings from their respective manufacturers, and are likely to remain highly desirable and retain their value reasonably for a number of years to come. All things being equal, I would still choose the Evo because it looks more special, and there are very few on the road, but this is simply personal preference. It also has better pedigree after the Tommi's last 4 WRC wins.

I suspect that quite a few readers of this BBS, and a very large percentage of the population as a whole, would envy you your position. Whatever you decide to do, good luck, and enjoy the car!

Regards,

Gary.

paulg

buy an Evo VI.

paulg

they are the best

WigWam

evo VI outclassses the impreza in all departments:

performance
handling
looks
build quality++
exclusivity (+ no yob image unlike impreza`s)

PS 22b is I`m afraid a case of "emperor`s new clothes"

Andy Banks

Well....

performance - followed an evo6 up and around the twisties this morning, couldn't escape me, very little in it.

handling - AYC too clever?

build quality - both are similarly japanese

looks - tonka toy anyone? clarkson summed it up quite well on one of his daft videos 'looks like it crashed into halfords shop window, all the bits are stuck on'!!!



[This message has been edited by Andy Banks (edited 30-01-2000).]

Jonathan

Looks like this post has drawn out a couple of EVO lurkers. Gary excepted.

I'm in the same position with a P1 order confirmed and with a couple of reservations. However I wont be switching to an EVO even if I dont go ahead with the P1.

Addressing Gary's post.

The handling department is personal. I have owned a 98MY, RB5, 00MY and STI V and driven back to back the STI V with the EVO VI (first EVO mag test of the EVO VI). I would concur with EVO mag that the RB5 was the best Ive owned so far and the EVO VI was slightly better than the STI V. It does look like Prodrive have spent a lot of time in this area and to think the P1 will be even better than the RB5 is an exciting prospect. A lot of EVO VI owners would like to change their suspension judging by the post on the EVO list.

Gary also mentioned the insurance. The EVO VI is higher than the P1. Privlege are charging 60ukp more to swap from a standard MY00 to the P1 - policy has 8 months left to go. The standard Cat 1 and Trackstar are to thank, combined with probably a lower cost to fix price in case of accident (check out how much Ralliart charge for items !, makes Prodrive look cheap)

Looks again are personal. Some love the EVO VI some hate it. Car mag this month said nice car shame about the looks. I think the front is lovely but the bag a dogs dinner.

As for rally Pedigree. When in Britain the EVO does not seem to fair as well. Now who was it that won this year ?. I like my cars set up for the UK roads not Monte Carlo.

Exclusivity has its good and bad points. You feel good about haveing a rare car, but never get to meet anyone to talk with or wave at.

The EVO VI owners cannont get 150 owners together in the middle of Oct to Donnington. The national meet is Andrew Bolton and a couple of mates. The Scooby owner has SIDC, lots of meets, this BBS etc to add to the ownership experience. If you have a problem or would like views on products their are lots of owners to help.

Also ask Mr Bolton what he thinks of Ralliart. They seem to make IM look the best Importer in the world ever.

The EVO VI and the P1 are the same money, so value for money wise they are both the same.

Both are great cars. Whichever you choose you'll be wrong.

Thats the EVO dealt with, but their are some downsides to the P1.

The biggest one is the new Impreza thats due here in November. If it was due here with 280 bhp from day 1 and I could place an order for it now, then I might wait. However from talking to people it seems there will be a bit of a wait for the 280bhp version.

I'm not sure the EVO has that much longer left to run ?.

I also wish they had chosen a new colour. I had the same colour on my Terzo and was never a fan.

For me at the moment I plan to have the P1 for about 9 months. I'll see whats available then.

Jonathan

Moz

Why don`t you buy a 22B there is one for sale in this weeks motoring news for £30,000,looks better than the pretender 1.

chrisp

Its all been said before but both these cars are superb technology. Personally I would have P1, I dont like the looks of the Evo 6. Again this is personally choice and I accept that people disagree.

When the P1 was anounced I asked my local dealer about part ex on my MY98 against a P1. He said about 17000 to 17,500. Which would leave me 14K to find. I decided not worth it as I cant fully exploit my UK spec car, so I left it at that.

You are also comparing the cars and not the culture. The SIDC has a strong following and loads of members. There are plenty of meets, trackdays etc. Also the help and experience on here and IWOC is priceless. Not to mention the chat server

Go and buy an Evo 6 its your money and choice, I wouldnt.

cheers

chrisp

[This message has been edited by chrisp (edited 30-01-2000).]

GavinP

As much as I hate to say it, I think character is going to be the main difference.

I think the point made about residuals is very important too - the Scoob will probably retain less value due to lack of exclusivity and an impending new model.

IMHO, the brain would pick the EVO VI and the soul the Scooby.

At the end of the day, it's a very personal thing...

Thanks

Gavin

Stef

EVO VI! Pah!

If they're so good, how come they let you pass at Donington?

Stef.



[This message has been edited by Stef (edited 30-01-2000).]

Stupot

I do like the looks of the EVO but it has a few flaws in my opinion. A friend of mine has one and says that the fuel tank is about 50 litres!At that size the fuel consumption would make even more fuel stops needed than our scoobies. The insurance is noticably more expensive and god help you if you need new brakes and discs. I dont think an EVO could tempt me away from the truly obscene affair I am having with my STi

Stupot

Wreckleford

Tell me about it. I have to fill up every three to four days with my Evo. It's not a disadvantage that is really going to make the difference between choosing one car over the other.

GCollier

Andy >>>

With regard to build quality, the Evo VI is miles above the scoob. The doors shut with a far more solid clunk, it doesn't rattle and squeak inside, and the controls feel a lot better. It feels solid and positive in a way the impreza just doesn't.

So an Evo VI couldn't drop you around the twisties, that is hardly a surprise. Driver nerve (stupidity) plays a far bigger part in "dropping people" on country roads. I will happily admit that previously I have been unable to drop a Vauxhall Nova in my Porsche 944, or a Volkswagon Bora in mu Impreza Turbo, whilst travelling at a press-on pace. I think this says more about my desire to avoid being another accident statistic than it does about the relative merits of the cars.

Gary.

boltona

With my name being mentioned I just have to reply
Insurance myth - I paid £750 for the Scooby (Terzo) and £900 for the Evo, Evo with A plan and is modified (Leda, tinted windows , dump valve being main ones).
Handling (pre-Leda) - Evo has much less roll than the Scooby. AYC not that noticable in reality - still let you knows when you are going and IMHO makes it much safer. I have driven pretty hard on the track and never felt unsafe - it catches spins very well, as long as you have the bottle to keep the power down.
Brakes are fantastic, but of course you can buy AP or Brembo for a Scooby, but why should you need to? Recaro seats also fantastic, but would be a bit more comfortable if I lost a bit of weight
Build quality - no frameless windows! May not look as good, but never any wind noise problems. Also no rattles whatsoever, can't say the same about the Terzo.
Servicing - cheaper than my Scooby, although I have 'connections' which help. Jon is right about Ralliart though - delays were terrible. Go grey would be my advice.
Owners club getting much better, but still no where near the levels of the SIDC/IWOC. There are quite a few around though. And you don't feel like they are 'common' when you see another one.
Turbo lag - yes, worse than Scooby. I put a dump valve on which improved it somewhat. Power delivery is very similar to earlier Scoobys. Quite on/off, rather than the phase 2 boxer smoothness. Good/bad depending on what you like .
Rally pedigree - hmmm, being still Group A, rather than WRC, the rallying Evo is a lot closer to the road car than the Scooby is. None of this moving the intercooler stuff Road car developments continually focussed on improving the rally car cos they need to be homologated. Eg cooling efficiency improvements between 5 & 6.
New Scoob in end 2000 - same with Evo. This years ('Tommi Makinen edition') car is almost identical to Evo 6. Next years car rumoured to be totally different - turbo charged GDI engine, should be interesting.
50 litre fuel tank - biggest gripe of all with the Evo. 200 miles between fillups max. Would change this if I could. Other gripes - boot is a bit smaller than Scooby and seats don't fold (same with P1, all STIs, Terzo & RB5 though). V.hard suspension - bit crashy on B-roads, although Leda has sorted that out nicely.
Lovely gear ratios - 1 to 4 very close, 5th longer. Lovely direct steering. Nice OZ wheels. Brilliant gear change - precise - wife loves this over the Scooby.
Looks - I love it. Looks best in dark blue or black, IMHO.

After all this, I'm not saying it is way ahead of the Scoob. I loved that car too, but given the choice between an STI and an Evo, I went for something different. Going from UK Scoob to STI would have been hard to justify to the other half too Then again, she frequently tells me she loves the Evo and didn't really like the Scooby in terms of ease of driving.

Andrew

GCollier

Andrew,

Do you have a number for A-plan? Sounds like I need to give them a call!

TIA

Gary.

MorayMackenzie

Personally, I prefer a car that lets you get on with the driving. I wouldn't like the Evo GSRs AYC system, I bet it doesn't let you, the driver, know how close you are to the physical limits of adhesion nearly as well as any reasonable scooby. Evos cost a bit more to service and insure and loose out on the character front. Apparently Evo's also suffer more turbo lag, not definite on this one! Both superb cars in their own ways.

Moray

GCollier

Moray >>>

All I can say is "go drive an Evo VI". I got out of the car after my test drive totally bowled over, feeling "WOW" in a way I hadn't done since I test drove an impreza turbo.

Though there is not much in it, the Evo does need a few more RPM on the clock before it picks up its heels, compared to a 99MY scoob.

Gary.

boltona

Used to have it on my desk, but moved recently. They have a special import dept - you should ask for that. Call the normal number:
0800 731 7666
My policy through them is with Axa.

For your information, I am 26 with full no claims, parked off street in fairly low risk area. So being older with a garage should be even less. Oh, and mine has a tracker, but I don't know if that gave me a discount (probably not).

Good luck!

Andrew

Orville

Best wait and see what the production P1 turns out like. You'll kick yourself if it ends up being better that the EVO. You can always get the EVO once official reviews/test drives have taken place.

My own pesonal opinion is that the EVO VI is not worth £10k more than a standard Scoob (yes I have driven one on several occasions). But I'll probably say the same thing about P1, £10k is a lot for 40bhp.

alanp

Just a few points I hav'nt seen mentioned.

EVO servicing might be cheaper, but you will back at the dealer every 4,500 miles and not 7,500 miles as for the Impreza.

The EVO 6 brakes really look good but they don't stop the car any quicker than those of the 99MY Impreza according to Autocar. However I bet the Brembo's feel better.

The EVO 6 is a much noiser car. According to Autocar its about 10dBA noisier when cruising at about 50mph.

Alan

boltona

AlanP

True about the servicing, forgotten about the intervals .

Probably true about stopping power of Brembos as well. Difference is in fade performance. Mine have never faded on the 2 track days I've done. I doubt you can find an STI 4-pot user who can say the same.

Autocar probably aren't wrong about noise, but I can't say I noticed it. The standard exhaust is really quiet. Cruising seemed fine, especially with no wind noise from the non-frameless windows . Of course now I have the Scoobysport Evo exhaust, it's flippin loud, but that's my choice

You may be interested that my car made 315bhp and 285lbft on a rolling road last week. That is with exhaust and filter only. Not bad . Of course it was fairly cold, which would help.

GCollier

Andrew,

Just phoned A-Plan. They quoted £900 with a company called Independent (very big insurer they said, who only insure prestigious cars), with a £500xs, protected NCB, girlfriend to drive as well. This was conditional upon having a Trackstar fitted. Track day cover is included with an xs of £1000, and modifications can be made to the vehicle.

They said that the area I live in (Kingston-upon-Thames) was the reason it was not as cheap as yours. Apparently it is area code 6 on a scale from 1-9 (Bradford was the worst area BTW).

A very big thankyou.

Gary.

Reza

Everyone seems to have ignored the fact that the "STi 6" with it's new suspension settings is considered better in terms of handling i.e less understeer than it's predecessor the STi 5. As I understand it the improvements made to this car were done in conjuncion with STi & Prodrive UK who are also making the P1. The STi6 RA was a mere 3tenths slower than the EVO6 Rs despite giving away 40 odd horsepower on the TSkuba track challenge a few months ago!

Another thing, who the hell is WIGWAM and what is he on about? Has he read EVO magazine or Autocar in the last few months. Steven Sutcliffe, Autocar road tester and a top5 driver in the TVR Tuscan challenge race series last season, simply described the P1 as a better put together car than the EVO6 he so highly rated before. This was probably due to the fact that a younger less experienced fellow road tester left him behind whilst driving the P1 demonstrator whilst Steven was driving an EVO6. The AYC system on the EVO6 is excellent at reducing understeer and stabilising oversteer but nullifys the driver involvement and will also make the car snap out with virtually no warning once it has reached it's limits. The EVO6 is also heavier than the STi6 and P1 and not as quick to accelerate.

GCollier

Reza,

Would the autocar article you refer to be the one that compared the Evo VI to the white journalist-demonstrator "P1" with a 2.2litre 350bhp engine, and god-knows what other mods that were not discolosed in the article?

Gary.

WigWam

Who the hell are you Reza?

Why don`t you stop slavishly believing all you read and get some opinionns of your own.

jamesr

Thank you one and all for your input on this topic.

I am now completely confused, and am no closer to being able to make a decision.

In all seriousness thanks for all the replies, personal preference looks like the key here, what differences there are between the two cars appear negligible.

I think I may hold on for a drive in the P1, before making any decisions.

Once again thanks for all the input

Confused of Reading

GCollier

And suddenly when told of Independent's quote via A-plan, Norwich Union's quote for the Evo VI falls from £1600 to approximately £1000 (including track day cover), with a £185 cost to changeover for the 6 months remaining on my policy. All hail the competetive free market.....

jeremy

In response to Boltona. It is exactly because you must keep on the power in a Evo 6 to get it to pull itself together, which is the reason that when the road gets tricky the tricky get broken.

MarkO

Oh good. A Scoob vs Evo topic - with Mr. Bolton involved too! Just like the old days.....

Perhaps I should keep up with the BBS a bit more often...